New PTAC-style Climate-Control Unit With Gas Heater

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Today, in my travels in NYC, I saw one that has a GAS heater and electirc air-conditioning.

Now that is very odd in that these units normally have electric reisitance coils or else are heat-pumps(reverse-cycle air-conditioners).

They yellow thing is a flexible gas connector.

This is a 220v in that the slot on the right side of the outlet/receptale is horizontal, and thus won't fit standard North-American parallel prongs (in the shape of an 11).

12-10-2008-18-33-40--Toggleswitch2.jpg
 
Hmmm . . .

I saw some stuff like this catalogued by Carrier many, many years ago but have never noticed one in person. Is there a flue vented to outside? This could be a code violation if either the window to the left of the unit or above are operable.

I wonder if the gas heater is a primary heater or a backup for a heat pump. In a climate where it gets really cold that's not a bad combination if gas prices are high and electric prices are low.
 
The outside has a typical vent/grille. This appers to be what is referred to as "architectural" series, and is somewhat more aesthetically appealing.

12-10-2008-18-42-1--Toggleswitch2.jpg
 
oh and some of these PTACs are available with hydronic coil that extracts heat from a hot-water circuit, which requires a separate boiler.

So to me the gas unit is quite unique.
 
Good point!
I dont see any type of vent or flue, but I 'd say it's hidden behind the grille.

The window above in this installation is fixed and thus not operable/openable. From inside the apartments, the windows to the left do open, but I'm not sure about the ones to the right; my guess is that they do not open.

Electricity in NYC is prohibitively expensive and generally not used for ANYTHING it doesn't HAVE to be used for.

Stranger still, I thought code in NYC prohibited (new) gas service in bedrooms for safety reasons. But it may be that it's just unvented gas heaters or gas logs / fire starters are illegal in bedrooms.
 
Cool Thread Steve!

Thanks for this link and for the PDF information link.
We are actually thinking about doing some additions to our home, and was wondering of a way to get around the extra central install. Although I know about this type of unit, I don't like electric heat. The gas version is very interesting.
Many years ago I attended a music school in the evenings that were in a very old building. Beautiful building, but very old. Every class had a window unit. The unit was a typical window unit, with the big "box" hanging outside. What I found interesting with the units was the attachments that looked like "mufflers" coming out of the front. I had no idea what it could be. I figured it out however when winter rolled around. The window units also had "gas heat". And boy did they blow hot air! The "muffler" outside would be very hot while the heat was running, and could burn you very badly if you touched it. It was the first time I have ever seen a gas window unit for heating / cooling. I want to say that they were either Climatrol or Janitrol in brand? I am sure I spelled company names wrong. The cool part (no pun intended) was the front of the inside unit was very nice wood. The grill that the air came out of was stainless. I would love to see this unit again, and figure out how it worked. I do remember after figuring out it was natural gas, I found where the gas supply line was attached to the unit.
Again, cool thread!
Brent
 
Also....

The unit you took pictures of does not appear to have the controls on the unit. Did it have a room thermostat?
Brent
 
IIRC "Serval" made gas heating units that resembled A/C units.
May be what you are referring to :-)

I kinda like (in theory) Mitsubishi Mr. Slim Spit-sytem units. Heat-pump heating and cooling. Runs faster in winter to extract more heat from outside and nearly totally silent indoors, all year-round. Up to four indoor units (i.e. rooms heated/cooled) per one outside unit.

http://www.mrslim.com/Products/userSpecific.asp?Commercial=0
 
Neptunebob, I have used the Gideon Bible for this purpose many a time. A couple of clothes pins in your suitcase can be lucky, if you get the really pesky drapes that just don't quite overlap correctly in the center. arthur:-)
 
I'd say hotels like these types of units because, should one fail only one room rental is lost. The break-down of central system(s) that cover multiple rooms or floors would be a devaststatingly large loss of income.

I'd be nervous about installing such a "specialty" unit. What if it is discountinued? Not sure how many manufacturers there are of units that use this combination of fuels/energy sources. Perhaps this explains the "need" for 220v which is normally reserved for larger capacity units. This would enable use of a model that heats with electricty (be it coils or a heat-pump), should the current type/unit fail and prove to be irreplacable.

In terms of the gas piping in this new buildng, there is ONE meter for all the heaters in the place. The building owner simply passes-along the fuel (natural gas) costs and divides it by square footage(size of apt.) to determine individual billing. Said another way, one vertical gas pipe picks up 6 floors (stories=>U.S, storys=>U.K.) of units.
 
PTAC with hot water system for heating

When in college in my fraternity house which was on campus, the installed air conditioning in 1988, LOL, yes we had only a big york window unit in the dining room prior to this. The house was a former sports dorm with a sleeping room that held 24 bunk beds and 48 smaller rooms which were dressing/study rooms. We were able to convert the study rooms into living quarters by the use of lofts. Ok so back to the story. The building was heated with an oil fired boiler and each room had a radiator. So when they installed the ac units by snydergeneral McQuay, they room units were fitted on top of coils that carried the hot water. In summer you had air and in winter the air was drawn accross the coils and up.
 
NEAT! Thanks Mr.L!

What is HP (Can it be horse-power?) Nahhhhhhhhh.
Don't know what cooling watts equals in B.T.U.
But these are quite interesting in that they preserve the architectural integrity of older buidings!
 
Louis, are those airconditioners recently introduced? I have never seen that system before.

BTW Did you notice the remark that they cannot be used for cooling when outside temperatures are below -6C? A serious restriction indeed :)
 
*LOL*

Only to cool an interior, windowless computer-room mid-winter would this matter!

But then again when was the last time anyone saw a whole room devoted to a main-frame style computer?

:-)
 
Theo

No, these airconditioners were introduced already some years ago. I noticed an ad for these airconditioners on Marktplaats sometime. There are more brands. One of them is called Windy. LOL. The Windy airconditioner is less efficient though because it uses only one exhaust while the cooling air for the condensor is taken in from the room where the airconditioner is. The advantage is that you only need to drill one small hole in the wall. I would prefer the systems with two pipes for efficiency reasons.
 
Hmm, to me that "Windy" airconditioner seems no more efficient to me than a portable airco. I had a portable in the past (exhaust through wall and not through open window) and could only manage a temperature drop of 5 degrees or so, plus it made a tremendous noise. One of my less successful projects...
 
Yes Theo, that Windy thing is working like a portable airconditioner. I have a portable one too, a cheap Everglades. A difference of 5°C is actually quite impressive for a portable. I never got such results. Reducing the humidity is at least as important as getting the temperature down. I adjusted mine with a carton box and a dryer hose so the air is taken in from the outside now. It's still noisy but I can sleep for a while when it's on.
 
5C temperature drop...

My airco was placed in a small room (2.5 x 2 m) and I kept the door closed. It didn't work well in the living room: I could only feel the cold air when sitting right in front of it and that wasn't very comfortable.

I decided to try an airco after a large tree in front of my apartment got elm disease and was removed, leaving my home exposed to the sun all day long. As the airco (Zibro brand) was not a success, I abandoned it and now I have heat-reflecting foil on my windows. Furthermore, the successor of the old tree is growing well and its shade is getting bigger every year!
 
A Disney question....

I brought up about the PTAC units even in expensive hotels just blowing up into the curtains (but I will remember the tip about the clothespins and the Gideon Bible). I plan to go to Disney World for my birthday next year and might stay at the Contemporary Resort. Has anyone here stayed there and does it have that problem? If so, I might just stay at Pop Century (although the theme of that place just screams!)and save the money. I just thought Walt would not stand for that problem at his hotels.

Also, has anyone here been on Mission: Space? I would think the people here would like it becuase of all the controls and buttons. That's why I want to go on it!
 

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