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Steve, you said you had a taste for cherry earlier.
This is an excellent way to pop a cherry in your mouth.

Question:
What do you get when reading the side of a condom box?

Answer:
Erection Protection Directions, probably in sections and an explaination for final dejection.
 
So Erik, can you share the circumstances that caused the flash of insight or the acceptance of yourself around noon on Monday, November 27, 2006? Did you see a stranger across a crowded room or were you standing on the corner watching all the gu...gir...guys go by? Did someone divooon step into your office to show you a computer procedure and lean over you while his hands were on the keyboard and his arms were against your sides? Or is it too private to share? If so, that's OK, too. So long as you can be happy with yourself. I'll bet that you, just like all who have have had the guts to be true to themselves have never had a real voice message from G-d saying, "I hate you and you are lost to me forever because you are gay," because we are all loved unconditionally and your Creator knew who you would be when your soul was fashioned, even before it was breathed into you. If people do feel that they are not loved and are horrible because they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered or not even able to figure it out for themselves, it is self-hate; it is their brain, giving in to societal pressure, talking to them, not their Creator. We are all made for the mission we have to perform down here. I just hope that hair color has nothing to do with it.

Best wishes, enjoy yourself, but do not lose your dignity in public; neither the appliance collectors nor the homosexuals need any bad publicity and, as you have been told so many times by people who care for you, protect yourself. Every sport has its uniform and protective gear so be sure that you do not join any team that's playing "skins." even though that was mildly stimulating, bordering on the inspirational, in physical education, especially when the older members of the athletic teams were working out during our (you should pardon the word) period.
 
eww, a substantive question and statement.

Thank-you for the positive words and metaphors. Very constructive. I do feel fortunate to be able to come out in such an accepting and understanding forum. There are those who are hostile towards members of their group if they were to be honest about any number of things, including sexual proclivities that seem inordinate. That just seems, and is, so rigid and unrealistic.

I was home when I made the realization. In bed trying to get sleep as I was restless all weekend and trying to get over a upper respiratory infection I have had for more than a month now, and still have. I was thinking, introspection. Having met and had a wonderful experience with Ex I realized that even in light of that and the certain potential for more, I would never be able to function in a heterosexual relationship. And as good as a parent I could be It would make me a mess anytime the slightest thing were to go wrong. It was a matter of practicality really.

I have really suffered a bad childhood which just seemed to get worse with time. (It did) I finally realized, and accepted, that it has scarred me. Lets face it, we are all victims, if you will, of our environment.

As much as I respect womans plight, I have found that in personal circumstances, like living together, would forever have me on edge and expecting the worst. Really the worst. Even as wonderful as Ex was. when ever the slightest thing would be adverse or could even be envisioned with the potential of going bad, and it was rare, I was off expecting the best and planning to go to war. It was me. It had nothing to do with her. I don't have that problem with men. If a man does a stupid thing, and lets face men are more prone to stupid things, I can say it and walk away. It doesn't upset me.

On this info alone, I realized I could never be successful in a hetero relationship, or with kids- even in a gay relationship.

I'm 39, I've found comfort with gay intimate thoughts from early on. Don't get me wrong though, there are attractive woman. This is why I was conflicted.

Yes, I am attracted to men. It makes me happy to admit to that. I never had a problem with liking men. I 've had other problems which have prevented me, in the past, from living a full life. It is good to be free of that.
 
Out

I am a 53 year old "classic" woman, been married 26 years. I am so very glad that more and more men and women are coming out now. In my day, it was considered horrible to be gay, and as a result, made life so difficult for those who were. So much needless suffering over something that was and is so natural for many individuals. I just never could figure out why people don't accept others as they are. Gay, streight, or otherwise, each person is special in their own right. Each person is a wonderful human being and should be treated as such. My parents, both 82 years young, always taught me these values and I, in turn, have brought my own children up in the same manner. I think that the unnecessary stress placed on the gay community starts in one's childhood upbringing. Parents who poison the minds of their children with gay bashing usually grow up to be adults who do the same thing. I'll get off the soapbox now. (I just get so angry at the whole thing!) Anyway, I am privilaged to know several gay men who are great individuals and more than a few straight men who are simply a--holes!
 
Wow...Profound.. Yes we all are products of our enviroment..

Although from age 6 or 7 i knew i liked guys... Used to try to peak at the gym teacher when he changed...

I my self have never found a girl attractive... Things have pursued in that direction once, but that ended it right then and there.. BTW both the flings mentioned in my first post where with guys, not gals...

Whats so funny, is that i can be a big flirt if need be to get something (it got me an additonal $1500 of my truck!)i want, but in the end, the girls always figure it out very quickly... Like the lady at Matthews Ford i deal with... She asked if i was ever planning on meeting Mr. Right... dunno how she knew, but she does...

Good lick....
 
One thing about Clay Aiken or Mark Foley or any number of closet cases: If you were to ask a heterosexual male if he were gay or had any gay feelings, he would not hesitate to let you know that he was straight. He would not try to avoid answering the question by bringing in respect for his privacy or anything else.
 
Erik,

One thing you wrote a bit up in the thread - about finding women attractive - reminded me of something a straight friend said one evening when we passed the open windows of a gym...
Mein Gott! Der hat aber ein Arsch, wie von den Göttern erschaffen...
At my astonishment, he said: Just 'cause I'm straight, doesn't mean I'm blind.
(He said: My God! An ass suited to a god." (No corrections, dahlinks - that's how it comes out in English...)
 
Came out to Mom

Interesting weekend. Started off with a back injury, ended up coming out to Mom.

Neither activity was planned.

The back went out because I tried to pick up something I had no business trying to pick up. Lots of heat, ice, walking, and Motrin later, it's feeling somewhat better, though now my butt hurts. Go fig.

Anyway. Coming out to Mom. I was never really sure how it would play out, but I never pictured all the hysterical laughter that ensued (on my part only.) I had been talking to Keith (my BF) on the phone and when I hung up, Mom asked who was on the phone.

Me: Keith.
Mom. Oh. How is he?
Me: Fine.
Mom: Is he married?
Me: Nope.
Mom: Is he...gay? (This is pretty much a standard question for Mom.)
Me (nodding head): Uh-huh.
Mom: (pause) Are YOU gay?
Me: (nodding) Uh-huh.
(Wait for it... Wait for it...)
Mom: I'm being punished for something.
Me: (laughing.)
Mom: Are you really?
Me: Yup.
Mom: How long have you been?
Me: Uh, all my life.
Mom: Well, you never told me.
Me: You never asked.
Mom: You're not really gay, are you?
Me: (still laughing) Yes!
Mom: Well, you're gay but you don't practice, right?
Me: (laughing harder)
Mom: Okay, you're gay but you don't do what gay people do, right?
Me: (still laughing) Uh, can we not discuss this?
Mom: But you're such a germ freak! (Which I'm not.)
Me: (practically wetting myself, and bear in mind this hurts like hell) That doesn't have anything to do with it! And it really shouldn't matter to you.
Mom: Of course it matters; I'm a mother. <Pause>You don't advertise it, do you?
Me: (can't control laughter): Advertise it? No, I don't advertise it.
Mom: Good. Don't.

And that was it for the rest of the day. By nightfall, Mom hadn't mentioned it again so I assumed she forgot (entirely possible, by the way.) Then at bedtime I told her Keith was coming over and she said "Is he nice?"

"Yes."

"Would I like him?"

"I sure hope so."

"You hope so? Why?"

"Because he might be your son-in-law someday."

"Son in law? You like his daughter?"

"No, I like him!" (Mom can't hear worth squat.)

"Are you really gay?"

"Yes!"

And that's what happened. How Mom could not have known all these years is beyond me. I suspect she did know, just denied it. The whole process was so hilarious I just couldn't stop laughing.

Haven't told my brother yet, but I can pretty much tell how it's going to be:

Me: Do you care that I'm gay?

Jim: Nuh-uh. Did you get anything on my Christmas list?

I'll keep youall posted on further developments.

veg
 
I hear ya babes.

There is someting about a woman in a dress or a skirt, in panty hose and heels, all dolled up. Just the sounds they make when they walk, and the gentle wafting scent.. *SCHWING*. I guess I just need a bit more to grab onto.

But a well-toned man.. OH LA LA ~!. They don't want to own you. They don't want to possess you. They dont want to change you. They don't want to marry you. They dont want a two-decade or longer meal-ticket. They don't want your name and they dont need your credit rating. What more could you ask for?

...and most of the ones I know can suck a baseball through 50 feet of garden hose, no questions asked.

(ducks and runs)

OK OK snd the hate-mail privately..THIS WAS A JOKE!
 
~Somebody needs to send me the rules. Also maybe someone can tell me how to make may Gaydar work. Or is that old technology?

Yes please send them to me too! Adn the gay agenda whidl you are at it!

The rules are learned ever so slowly. The best part of this lifestyle is that we make our own. Once you have broken society's biggest rule, and do the m2m and f2f thing, the rest come easier. In general do what others do in specific sitautions. Like, you'd never have a conversation while in the rest-room, in general. There are places in gay life where talking is a no-no.

Similarly, we all have one mouth and two ears to repeat only half of what we hear. Gossip and the tongue have no bones but break many. Dont let on and don't let anything surprise you. Remeber what they- say "What is real? whatever the mind can imagine is real".

Everyone's perception is colored by their ethnicity, culture, language and life experiences. Not to mention their emotional neediness. In a word, it is colored by their expectations. If you believe life is grand it is. If you belive life is miserable, guess what? it is. Don't judge ever. As a human being no one can possibly know all sides of a story.

As far as Gaydar. Listen to your solar plexus (gut) with all these damned male metrosexuals who color, pluck, tease, curl trim and man-scape it's not as easy to be sure anymore. The eyes, however, still give it away. On rare occasions two same gendered people will look into each other's eyes, forget to blink and you will "see" into each-other's souls.

And remeber this.... the only thing a straight nman will not do? Kiss another man deeply. Trust me on this one. It's counter-intuitive. but ever so true, IMHO.

Life according to Toggle. Now go into the bathroom. Get on your knees. Worship the porcelain goddess and puke all this nonsense out that you just absorbed. Feel better? GOOD!
 
LoL..

Yea i peeked and peaked... Esp. my high school gym teacher.. OMG, he was drop dead gorgus..I got to see him in his undies more than once and even less a couple times...
 
Well..

Then again in 12th grade i yelled out loud to a bunch of people in the cafateria "I am here and I am queer, now go away"
 
Manscape, eww, that's a "four-letter" word!!

I'm too darn near-sighted, I can't see anyone's eyes, unless I"m nose-to-nose, which by then ...
 
And now for something different

This one is going to upset the PC crowd greatly; their problem.
Best they just skip it.
Erik you will probably, no almost certainly, at one point or other become interested in a man who is "Bi-sexual".
Now, that is a very small name for a very wide range of human behavior.
In and of itself, this is nothing more than a description for people who are capable of sex with both men and women.
This is just as valid a "sexuality" as is hetero- or homosexuality.
Unfortunately, there are a lot (an awful lot) of men running around out there who play the following game:
They are married to a woman, their "family" life revolves around their hetero-pairing.
At the same time, they enter into relationships with gay men. These gay partners, eager to be PC and tolerant accept this, thinking, ok - he is just capable of loving more than one person at a time.
Now there are such constellations, and they are full of love and joy for all partners.
But most end differently. The gay "partner" to this trio is left out of the holidays (I can hardly invite you home for Christmas...it would confuse the children, we don't want that, do we...we will have our own Christmas together, just us...) His birthday...nope, after all - she has a right to him, too.
Time goes on and, sooner or later, you realize, the guy has the best of all worlds...the socially acceptable wife and family...and the male sex partner.
And that is all you are.
When push comes to shove - you are replaceable and will soon be replaced...probably about the time you hit an emotional crisis because you have figured out that his "love" for you has "limits."
Ok, now everyone can scream at me and say what a nasty, bitter, ill-informed, idealistic, romantic and naive person I am...but hey - just say it under your breath and save the flames, ok?
Somebody has to tell Erik about these predators who mis-use the term "bi-" to prey on gay men.
 
I'm not offended.

I did it, for a brief period, during the worst of the epidemic, when I didn't want to be alone....

I can't imagine someone covertly, bringing that off, in this day and age, with cellphones and the way couples have of being totally into each other's business, folks working from home, etc., but it would be naive to say it doesn't happen when it obviously must...

The wrinkle to that is, if Mr. Man doesn't have a beef (no pun intended) with such a setup, and the lady's tolerant of it (for whatever reason), who's to say THEY couldn't somehow make it all work?

That said, I'm strictly one lover at a time....I just don't want to be a hypocrite and moralize when I theoretically did it myself...
 
it can work,

I confess, I want one man - he knows who he is - and only him for all of our lives.
Not old-fashioned - I came out pre-epidemic and loved every minute of it - just, by nature, monogamous and the married to one man kind.
I have met many bi-s who were in stable, happy relationships. Every single one was monogamous. I have also met "bi-s" who were married to someone of the opposite sex (sorry for the confusion, we have marriage for gays and lesbians in Western Europe) and had their boys on the side.
None of those relationships have ever been good for the boy-toy. The times I have met their poor wives, every single one was miserable.
The only one who was happy was the "bi-guy".
I wrote several posts above, it is ok to be in an exclusive relationship. It is ok to trick out with every Tom, Dick and Harry. It is not ok to use and cheat and lie to people - and that has been my experience with lots of guys who say they are "bi-".
A genuinely bi-sexual friend of mine counsels recovering suicides. She has come to the conclusion that these men are not truly "bi-" but gay and hate themselves because of it.
Anyway - I thank you a billion for not slamming me. The PC quotient of some folks is so high, they forget that sometimes a cigar really is just...a cigar.
 
Is your name April, May,June, Mary or Alice?

Somebody has to tell Erik about these predators who mis-use the term "bi-" to prey on gay men.

Or the ones who advertise as bi to avoid the label of "nelly helium-heels big-Mary queen".
You know the ones. See tarzan hear Jane.
or "He opens his mouth and a purse falls out."
 
Why, Steven

I did not know you cared. And I got it on sale, just imagine! I think it brings out the green in my eyes and it does flatter the figure...
;-)))
Lots of guys go the "questioning" or "bi-" route. It sickens me. You are who you are. If you give in to the christianists, you are just confirming their perverted, hate-filled views.
I know it is hard to stand up for who you are when your life is being threatened.- When I am in the US I don't hold hands with my boy friend on the street...
But there is otherwise nothing to be gained by silence. Only when we stand up and make very clear: leave us alone or else will they stop bullying us.
Schizophrenia hits a new depth (high?, I'm of two minds which word is better): The VPs daughter is having a baby.
Is that an example of the general case versus the specific or what?
 
It is an amzing journey

I came out as a student and BYU. I had always had feelings for men,a big love for Wonder woman and Green Lantern I even had a revolving door on my closet, but always went back in. It occured to me one day that I had to be who I was. Having a computer really helped that. You are in a way re-born. It is an entire new awareness. As far as church is concerned,I left the Mormon church, and now attend a very liberal,left leaning,progressive believing faith, that does not care what my sexual preference is. They exsist.Coming out is a beautiful thing. I came all the way out when I was 27, and now I am 35, I would never want to go back. Congradulations!!
 
Well, I'm hoping I can keep this short, but doubt I'll succeed.
First off, I don't think there's a man on the planet who is 100% straight. Those who insist they are entirely straight have simply conditioned themselves to suppress their tendencies to notice or be attracted to other men. There's a film I've come across on cable, probably the IFC channel, titled "The Opposite of Sex" and the teenage girl who stars and does to voice-overs has some absolutely on-target things to say about the gay life and men who are in denial about it, especially towards the end of the film. It's worth watching just for the validation she provides for the opinions of the majority of homosexual males. I hesitate to use the term "gay" because that denotes a lifestyle that I don't embrace. I don't go to bars (anymore), I don't cross-dress, I don't like to dance all night to thumping disco, I'm completely turned off by feminine behavior, I'm just a regular homebody guy who blends in and my partner is the same. I don't need to wear my lifestyle on my sleeve.
I've been attracted to men ever since I can remember, and usually they were much older than I was, and most were bear types or at least beefy with chest hair. I had a gym teacher in junior high who would remove his shirt when we had swimming lessons. He was maybe 30 and not only built, but had a pelt of chest hair that overflowed above his tee shirt. I'd relieve myself over thoughts of him. I'm swooning over him again now as I type, over 35 years later!

As I hit my 20's, I thought my interest in men would fade and I'd become "normal" and start being attracted to women. I abstained from sex completely for over a year and even found myself disgusted by openly gay men. This was around the time gays were just getting media attention, when that famous "I Am a Homosexual" cover of Time Magazine had the photo of Sgt. Leonard Matlovich around 1976 and exposed and explained the gay scene to the masses. Then at 24 I was alone for a weekend getaway with a neighbor guy I found attractive. We were out by the pool and in the course of conversation he mentioned he liked to hang out naked and relax and we agreed we'd do that when we got home. To make a long story short, he nearly raped me but I didn't try to stop him. And he jump-started me back into reality and I realized I was absolutely into men and that this was the path I would take. He tried to get me to go to a gay bar that weekend and I refused--he was moving too fast for me. But about 6 months later another friend suggested it and I was up for it, and who was seated at the end of the bar but this neighbor guy, so I went right up to him and he welcomed me. I had a great time, and the rest as they say, is history.

It took another 5 years before I found a guy I thought I could have a relationship with. He jilted me right away and I was devastated. A year later I found the man I've been with for 21 years now. We own our home in suburbia, I think we set a great example for our neighbors on how "normal" guys like us can be, and we have also been together longer than any of his siblings or mine who have all been through at least one divorce.

Speaking of suburbia, it's not a case of the interested men not being in proximity, they're just all in the closet, married, or both. We live on a neighborhood "collector" street that's semi-busy so we see a lot of the local men driving by. They see us out front and we catch them looking, some will give a discreet nod, some will smile and wave, and even if we're not in the yard we can see out our window that many still cast a glance our way. But since it's not Castro Street they can't just stop and chat and think nothing of it. Some have been brave enough to come to our door and ask about the old pick-up we have parked alongside our driveway. It's a '50 GMC and it's a man magnet for sure. It's strange, though, because for some guys who pass by and the gaydar kicks in, they won't even acknowledge us. It's like the ones who are "out" go back into the closet in suburbia, too fearful to be open with similarly inclined men in such a straight environment, and that's too bad. Right across the street we have a cute family man who goes out of his way to come over and chat when he sees us outside. We're both convinced he's interested as he's not so neighborly with anyone else. But it's a huge logistical stretch to think anything will ever happen with him. Such is the situation in suburbia. The men are so close, yet so far away, even the already gay ones, and for the most part, not single.

Glad to see that there are other nudists contributing here. My partner and I are rarely in clothes at home, we have privatized our back yard and have complete freedom indoors and out. It's not a sexual thing at all, but it can be if that's what you want it to be. I don't even give it another thought when I throw off my clothes when I get home. It's all about comfort. We hate that it's winter now and the house is so cold we have to bundle up.

Finally (let's see if that lead-in holds) I'd like to address the whole monogamy thing. My partner and I were together maybe 3 years when we had our first 3-way. It was spontaneous, we were on vacation, and it went really well. We've been playing around with other men or in groups ever since, and I am convinced this extra-curricular activity has helped our relationship rather than damaged it. Men are men, we are dogs, it's our nature to be out there planting our seeds, as it were, and absolutely normal to be interacting on an intimate level with more than just one man. All it takes is a little common sense safety to make this a fun recreational activity. I really enjoy a good masculine physical experience with new meat and as I have stated to my life partner as well as a number of play partners, we're not getting any younger. I figure if I can still attract a man who I find attractive, I need to strike while the iron is hot. And while I don't have a huge ego, it sure gets boosted when I'm told time and again by men I'm with that they really like what I do, and that I've even got a group of devotees that seek me out in a crowd. I think comfort level has everything to do with a successful encounter.

OK, a couple more "final" items:
Re: the bible belt coming off fast, that is so true. I used to work with this kid who was so obviously gay. He did what so many do, turned to Jesus and became a youth counselor and his denial really angered me. He was very nice looking and buffed out, even though I don't usually go for smooth guys under 30 this kid caught my eye, and he was wasting the prime of his life. He could nail some hunks if he only would stop the denial. He quit the company long ago and I can only hope that he finally caved in, accepted himself and started to enjoy life.

Re: Sex and the City, I read somewhere when that show was still in production that the scripts were nearly interchangeable to apply to four gay men instead of four straight women, so yes, there's a reason why guys like us tended to watch and enjoy it.

WT, congratulations on coming out. You've got a ton of support here. And I'll see about adding info to my profile!
Ralph
 

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