Old phones

[stan]

My partner changed the modem to a high speed this morning, every thing is fine except the two old phones in the house? They ring, you can answer, have dial tone, but won't dial out? They did with the other modem (this is all with comcast)
A service tech is coming out tomorrow (probably someone who's never "dialed a phone")

Any thoughts, or warnings?

 

[Ultramatic]

 

Rotary (Pulse) dialing will not work on VOiP. You will need a pulse to touch tone converter.

http://www.dialgizmo.com/

 

[rp2813]

I'm guessing your new modem doesn't recognize pulse dialing.  I've read about this problem in forums on the Classic Rotary Telephones site.

 

That's a nice D-1 202.  I have one just like it.  I presume you have the retrofitted F1 transmitter element in the handset.

 

[stan]

Thank you

Louie and Ralph for the info!
The transmitter has never been touched that I know of ??

The phone is original to the house, and the only thing that's been changed that I know of is the plug and jack. Original wires to the box in the basement are still in use.
I know that when I've answered it, the person on the other end usually can tell the difference between it and the cordless. Cordless being a little louder and clearer. ? Do I need to change something?

 

[rp2813]

Can you take a picture of that end of the handset?  Just by looking into the "spit cup" I'll be able to tell you if it has the retrofit or not.  I'm betting it does.  If it had the original "bullet" transmitter, you can take it to the bank that the distant party wouldn't be able to hear you very well, but stranger things have happened with old phones.

 

If taking a picture isn't convenient, it's easy to tell the difference.  The retrofit will look pretty much like your typical mouthpiece with a flat, perforated surface.  The original element will look like a rounded cone protruding into the spit cup.  I'll see if I can locate any pix of mine that might show the difference.

 

Also, beware of the Dial Gizmo site.  I've read that they may not be available anymore, hence the backorder indicator.  Again, there have been discussions about these converters on the CRT site.

 

[rp2813]

Here's a shot of mine.  This is what yours should look like for best transmission quality.

 

[Ultramatic]

Dialgizmo

 

 

Well it does say they are back order until after Easter. But there are others you can look into. Now that you know what you need. You some info on your 202:

http://oldphoneguy.net/BookletPDF/202MSW41.pdf

 

[rp2813]

Louie, it looks like the document you posted is providing instructions on how to build a network that will fit inside the D-1 or B-1 base on sets that were designed for use with an external network.  That wouldn't have any effect on the pulse dialing, and by eliminating the subset/external network, your phone loses the ability to ring.

 

I think pulse-to-tone converters like the Gizmo are installed in-line or at the jack, and opening up the phone isn't necessary.  The one exception is something called a "Rot-a-Tone" which I don't think is made anymore.  Those were installed inside the the phone, connecting directly to dial terminals and other points in the circuitry.

 

[stan]

Ralph

Il try to take a pic tomorrow in the daylight , from what I can tell it looks like yours, but feels kind of rounded?
Just seems strange that thus happened from changing one modem for another, but I have trouble understanding all this high tech stuff.
I love this phone because it belongs to the house, and has come in handy when power was out ect
I'll take a pic of the old fuses that the phone connected to in the basement that I wouldn't let the phone man take with him when that was changed years ago.
I hung onto it because I thought I'd change it back myself if the phone didn't work, or sound right!
Like I know anything LOL

 

[NYCWriter]

By the way ...

... if you no longer have telephone service from the telephone company (old-fashioned land line), and have switched your home service to "digital" (anything that requires a modem), your phone will NOT work during a power outage.

It's for this very reason why I've stubbornly hung onto my land line (I have five working rotary dial phone in my home), as well as the fact that I do not like all of my services "bundled" and supplied by one provider.

With all the technical glitches and poor customer service these days, you're just one brain-dead customer "service" representative's keystroke (or, God forbid, one late payment) away from having EVERYTHING shut off at once: Cable, internet, AND phone.

No thank you.

 

[firedome]

Western Electric

formerly "rental" phones are all permitted here, mostly Princess and Trimline pushbutton models (I'm impatient) in various colors, with a few vintage WE rotary desk sets and wall phones in mothballs just for nostalgia. Built to last forever and can really take abuse, as well as work when the power goes out. A pox on wireless and cell phones, they'll have to take my WE phones from my cold, dead fingers...

 

[stan]

Matt

I never thought of that!
Think we are "bundled" now!

 

[retropia]

I was reading somewhere about how copper telephone lines may be eliminated over the next 10-15 years. It is apparently now cheaper for phone companies to switch your service to wireless than maintain the old lines.

 

 

[rp2813]

Copper

What they intend to do is use wireless technology to provide home telephone service for those who still want it.  The subscriber will be able to use a wired phone in their home (or business, I presume) just like today, but the transmission won't be happening over copper anymore.

 

What this amounts to is deterioration of transmission quality down to that of wireless phones.  Static, dead air, and dropped calls. 

 

Welcome to 1914.  It's called progress.

 

[davetranter]

Wireless 'landline'

Sounds like the worst of both worlds, with the advantages of neither. Wireless receiver and transmission loop power provided at the customer's premises (at the customer's expense) and, with no copper connection to the exchange Central Battery, your 'phone will no longer work during an 'outage'. Add to that the poorer transmission quality, and yes, it sounds just about what we expect from our 'technology for technology's sake' communication providers!! It's already happening for some rural subscribers on this side of the 'pond'.... Just the people MOST likely to need the telephone during any 'emergency'...

Customer srevice in the 21st Century.... Forget it... Profit is everything!!

All best

Dave T

 

[rp2813]

Dialgizmo

It looks like maybe they really are back in business.  Per a thread on the CRT forums, Dialgizmo was accepting orders again as of earlier this month. 

 

I can only assume that theirs is a very small operation and that it was shut down over spring/Easter break.  The Dialgizmo seems to be the best, most versatile, least expensive and easiest to install of the pulse-to-DTMF converters available. 

 

Stan, I think this is the best bet for regaining your 202's ability to dial out.

 

[whirlaway]

Mine work!!!!

I have DSL my 402 and 302s work fine,but the 202s if you have your bell box with the network in it should work.Ive had my same 302 since 76 and has been remarkable,it always works hurricanes and all.I also have a 354 Wall phone from the SS United States thats been in my kitchen for 17 years and works great,the only phones I really use, Bobby

 

[rp2813]

There's no issue with DSL.  That's what I have.  It's closely related to POTS and ties directly to the CO switch. 

 

The problems with pulse dialing lie with VOIP systems.  Even with a pulse-to-DTMF converter like Dialgizmo, you may be able to use a rotary phone but if your service is VOIP, when the power goes out, so does your old (formerly) reliable rotary phone.  Most VOIP services will provide a battery back-up, but they generally don't last more than a few/several hours.

 

[tolivac]

When I paid my wireless internet bill at US Cellular a few weeks ago they offered me a an alternative to a regular wired landline phone--it was merely a "cellphone" packaged to be like a regular one-and at 20 bucks per month.They said--"don't worry-the instrument has a battery in it like your cellphone-it will work during a power failure."I told them--I'll pass-pretty much duplicates the cellphone I already use.The fixed one just isn't meant to be portable.You put it on your phone table like a regular phone-you have to plug it into a power outlet.

 

[NYCWriter]

Here's what scares me ...

... about departing entirely from copper lines.

1. Security. If Julian Assange and Edward Snowden have taught us anything, it's that encryption technology isn't worth jack. Anything and everything *wireless* can and will be intercepted -- and even scrambled.

2. Even more security. As we've all found during times of crisis -- 9/11 ... power outages ... natural disasters -- it's the wireless that goes first. Even on 9/11, when everyone's cell phones stopped working, my old reliable landline was still able to place and receive calls.

You just cannot beat a system by which every address is literally physically connected to everyone else in the world by a piece of metal.

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

I agree 100% Matt. Don't touch my copper!

 

[tolivac]

Copper landlines are NOT infallable-a natural disaster such as a hurricane or earthquake can disable them.This happened to Haiti a few years back-the severe earthquake that hit them took out ALL of their land phone service,internet,and cellular service-and no power at that.A copper landline is useless if its poles and lines are down and no power to run it and its genset and battery power depleted.So-for them RADIO to the rescue-VOA and other SW,MW and FM services at least gave the Haitian folks information and entertainment over their battery powerted radios-some even were powering their radios from car batteries when their supply of dry batteries ran out.

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

During hurricane Sandy I lost cable, internet, cell and data services. Power flickered a lot but remained on. But my trusty 2500 didn't skip a beat. Same can be said of the blackouts of 1977 and 2003. Landlines never failed.

 

[NYCWriter]

Rex ...

... you cannot even begin to compare our infrastructure with that of Haiti's.

In America: Hurricanes. Earthquakes. Tornadoes. Blackouts. Two of the world's tallest buildings demolished during an (alleged) terror attack.

And yet the copper phone lines kept working.

Uninterrupted service to my apartment since 1922.

 

[davetranter]

An 'aside' on Exchange power arrangements

I have no idea what arrangements are/were made for 'power security' on the U.S. telecommunications network, but here in the U.K. all the exchanges built/upgraded during the 'Cold War' era were provided with a Central Battery which could run the equipment for 24 hours in rural areas, and 1 hour in urban areas. The generators had fuel enough for 7 days running at full load, before a delivery was required.
Unfortunately, the modern 'more efficient' digital equipment has a higher power demand, most of which cannot be supplied from 51.5V battery. Our local 'main' exchange (which also houses the Group Switching Centre, and most of the 'trunk' lines) was in the process of being 'upgraded' to digital when I left the company. The old 560kVA genset was being replaced with two 800kVA sets, to accommodate the extra power demand of the new A/C system required to keep the new equipment cool enough to work. The two sets were to work in parallel, with only partial redundancy. One set COULD just about run the load, but only with all non-essential equipment switched off. Under the 'old' system, there was power enough to run EVERYTHING in the building, and some to spare....

Newer digital exchanges built/upgraded during the late '80s and '90s had only minimal battery backup from 'sealed' gel-type batteries, designed to support the load for just long enough for the generator to start. :-(

All best, and thanks for a fascinating thread

Dave T

 

[NYCWriter]

Dave T ...

... thanks for bringing up a very good point.

Our appetite for high-tech "progress" is actually diameterically opposed to our efforts in reducing our collective carbon footprint!

The more "advanced" our technology gets, the hungrier it gets for power. And the more dependent we become on the battery and the plug.

In 2014, we are just one EMP (electro-mangetic pulse, either natural or man-made) away from frying our entire power grid in one instant. Cities will go permanently dark. Food supplies will run out within days. Clean water supplies for 90% of the population will disappear within a week. All records of ownership (which are now "digitized") have been zapped away forever. In such a scenario, we are just nine days away from the total collapse of civilization.

Now dial back the clock to 1914. The same EMP strikes North America. Cities do not go dark, since they are still predominantly lit by gaslight. 99% of the population still lives within 25 miles of a food source -- working FARMS -- if they're not already growing their own food. Most of Americans get their fresh water from wells, not municipal suppliers. Records of ownership are on paper. In fact, EVERYTHING is on paper.

In other words, the nation barely misses a beat, because the whole notion of electricity is still relatively new.

And yet, we are arrogant enough to consider ourselves so much more "advanced" than the "crude" era of our great-grandparents.

 

[tolivac]

NYCWriter ANYTIME you have exposed communications wiring and power wiring on poles --they are vulnerable---it can be hits by cars and trucks,storms can knock them down, quakes can knock them down.Severe ice storms can take the wires down.It DOES happen--NO infrastructure is invulnerable.It really doesn't matter where the pole systems are-here or Haiti anytime you have wiring exposed to the elements-there is risk.I have had to work on this-yes,at the transmitter site.The antenna system riggers have to replace poles,insulators and wiring-repair antennas all the time.And underground wiring wether it be power or communication-it comes up above ground at some point.Drive your neighborhood and study the systems-you will see.Even in a city.As others point out the more electrical and electronic communications and devices we use-the more power needed to run and backup for them to keep them running.
If a EMP pulse occurs--things won't be permantly dark for long-power companies have backup gensets in neighborhoods and mounted on tractor trailers-so the power CAN be restored sooner than you think.Look at your power companies equipment yards and you will see spare equipment such as poles,transformers,circuit breakers,cable,portable deisel or gas turbine gensets on trailers,linemans trucks and so on.Power and communication companies are aware of pulses and are more prepared for them than you think.

 

[NYCWriter]

Rex ...

"If a EMP pulse occurs--things won't be permantly dark for long-power companies have backup gensets in neighborhoods and mounted on tractor trailers-so the power CAN be restored sooner than you think."

Not necessarily true.

Depending on the severity of the EMP, it could in an instant PERMANENTLY destroy the power grid, requiring an entire top-to-bottom rebuilding.

It could be years before the juice is turned back on in America.

 

[hydralique]

I live within 4 miles of the epicenter of the ‘94 Northridge earthquake. Although there have been more severe quakes the particulars of local geology are such that some of the ground acceleration figures recorded were among the highest ever. Old brick chimneys and fireplaces in many nearby houses collapsed, we were without electricity for about two days and had water problems due to a broken pipe in the water heater closet but the phones kept working.

 

The next evening I laid on my bed under blankets (no heat, the electronic controls on the furnace made it inoperable) talking to friends on the phone. One called from Manhattan to make sure we were OK and then politely offered to hang up if I was busy dealing with the effects of the quake. I still remember telling him that I had absolutely nothing else to do other than talk on the phone in the dark so we might as well have a good conversation!

 

[rp2813]

The telcos knew that back-up systems had to be more robust at some switching offices than others.  One local exchange that serves an area dominated by high tech companies has a jet engine in the basement to keep things going in the event of a power outage, while another exchange where I had an office for a while is a relatively recent small one that serves a predominantly residential area, and it has minimal battery back-up.

 

There's no question that overhead wires are vulnerable to weather phenomena and accidental damage, but the testimonials are overwhelming in their numbers with regard to land lines remaining in working order while other utilities are out of service for hours or even days at a time.  There is no question that this would not be the case if a monopoly had not existed to skillfully execute a federal mandate for a telecommunications network that was secure and virtually 100% reliable.

 

You can thank the old Ma Bell for that.  Today's telcos couldn't give a rat's ass about maintaining wireline facilities, as is reflected by their petitions to eliminate them.

[this post was last edited: 4/25/2014-15:03]