Old phones

[NYCWriter]

Here's what scares me ...

... about departing entirely from copper lines.

1. Security. If Julian Assange and Edward Snowden have taught us anything, it's that encryption technology isn't worth jack. Anything and everything *wireless* can and will be intercepted -- and even scrambled.

2. Even more security. As we've all found during times of crisis -- 9/11 ... power outages ... natural disasters -- it's the wireless that goes first. Even on 9/11, when everyone's cell phones stopped working, my old reliable landline was still able to place and receive calls.

You just cannot beat a system by which every address is literally physically connected to everyone else in the world by a piece of metal.

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

I agree 100% Matt. Don't touch my copper!

 

[tolivac]

Copper landlines are NOT infallable-a natural disaster such as a hurricane or earthquake can disable them.This happened to Haiti a few years back-the severe earthquake that hit them took out ALL of their land phone service,internet,and cellular service-and no power at that.A copper landline is useless if its poles and lines are down and no power to run it and its genset and battery power depleted.So-for them RADIO to the rescue-VOA and other SW,MW and FM services at least gave the Haitian folks information and entertainment over their battery powerted radios-some even were powering their radios from car batteries when their supply of dry batteries ran out.

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

During hurricane Sandy I lost cable, internet, cell and data services. Power flickered a lot but remained on. But my trusty 2500 didn't skip a beat. Same can be said of the blackouts of 1977 and 2003. Landlines never failed.

 

[NYCWriter]

Rex ...

... you cannot even begin to compare our infrastructure with that of Haiti's.

In America: Hurricanes. Earthquakes. Tornadoes. Blackouts. Two of the world's tallest buildings demolished during an (alleged) terror attack.

And yet the copper phone lines kept working.

Uninterrupted service to my apartment since 1922.

 

[davetranter]

An 'aside' on Exchange power arrangements

I have no idea what arrangements are/were made for 'power security' on the U.S. telecommunications network, but here in the U.K. all the exchanges built/upgraded during the 'Cold War' era were provided with a Central Battery which could run the equipment for 24 hours in rural areas, and 1 hour in urban areas. The generators had fuel enough for 7 days running at full load, before a delivery was required.
Unfortunately, the modern 'more efficient' digital equipment has a higher power demand, most of which cannot be supplied from 51.5V battery. Our local 'main' exchange (which also houses the Group Switching Centre, and most of the 'trunk' lines) was in the process of being 'upgraded' to digital when I left the company. The old 560kVA genset was being replaced with two 800kVA sets, to accommodate the extra power demand of the new A/C system required to keep the new equipment cool enough to work. The two sets were to work in parallel, with only partial redundancy. One set COULD just about run the load, but only with all non-essential equipment switched off. Under the 'old' system, there was power enough to run EVERYTHING in the building, and some to spare....

Newer digital exchanges built/upgraded during the late '80s and '90s had only minimal battery backup from 'sealed' gel-type batteries, designed to support the load for just long enough for the generator to start. :-(

All best, and thanks for a fascinating thread

Dave T

 

[NYCWriter]

Dave T ...

... thanks for bringing up a very good point.

Our appetite for high-tech "progress" is actually diameterically opposed to our efforts in reducing our collective carbon footprint!

The more "advanced" our technology gets, the hungrier it gets for power. And the more dependent we become on the battery and the plug.

In 2014, we are just one EMP (electro-mangetic pulse, either natural or man-made) away from frying our entire power grid in one instant. Cities will go permanently dark. Food supplies will run out within days. Clean water supplies for 90% of the population will disappear within a week. All records of ownership (which are now "digitized") have been zapped away forever. In such a scenario, we are just nine days away from the total collapse of civilization.

Now dial back the clock to 1914. The same EMP strikes North America. Cities do not go dark, since they are still predominantly lit by gaslight. 99% of the population still lives within 25 miles of a food source -- working FARMS -- if they're not already growing their own food. Most of Americans get their fresh water from wells, not municipal suppliers. Records of ownership are on paper. In fact, EVERYTHING is on paper.

In other words, the nation barely misses a beat, because the whole notion of electricity is still relatively new.

And yet, we are arrogant enough to consider ourselves so much more "advanced" than the "crude" era of our great-grandparents.

 

[tolivac]

NYCWriter ANYTIME you have exposed communications wiring and power wiring on poles --they are vulnerable---it can be hits by cars and trucks,storms can knock them down, quakes can knock them down.Severe ice storms can take the wires down.It DOES happen--NO infrastructure is invulnerable.It really doesn't matter where the pole systems are-here or Haiti anytime you have wiring exposed to the elements-there is risk.I have had to work on this-yes,at the transmitter site.The antenna system riggers have to replace poles,insulators and wiring-repair antennas all the time.And underground wiring wether it be power or communication-it comes up above ground at some point.Drive your neighborhood and study the systems-you will see.Even in a city.As others point out the more electrical and electronic communications and devices we use-the more power needed to run and backup for them to keep them running.
If a EMP pulse occurs--things won't be permantly dark for long-power companies have backup gensets in neighborhoods and mounted on tractor trailers-so the power CAN be restored sooner than you think.Look at your power companies equipment yards and you will see spare equipment such as poles,transformers,circuit breakers,cable,portable deisel or gas turbine gensets on trailers,linemans trucks and so on.Power and communication companies are aware of pulses and are more prepared for them than you think.

 

[NYCWriter]

Rex ...

"If a EMP pulse occurs--things won't be permantly dark for long-power companies have backup gensets in neighborhoods and mounted on tractor trailers-so the power CAN be restored sooner than you think."

Not necessarily true.

Depending on the severity of the EMP, it could in an instant PERMANENTLY destroy the power grid, requiring an entire top-to-bottom rebuilding.

It could be years before the juice is turned back on in America.

 

[hydralique]

I live within 4 miles of the epicenter of the ‘94 Northridge earthquake. Although there have been more severe quakes the particulars of local geology are such that some of the ground acceleration figures recorded were among the highest ever. Old brick chimneys and fireplaces in many nearby houses collapsed, we were without electricity for about two days and had water problems due to a broken pipe in the water heater closet but the phones kept working.

 

The next evening I laid on my bed under blankets (no heat, the electronic controls on the furnace made it inoperable) talking to friends on the phone. One called from Manhattan to make sure we were OK and then politely offered to hang up if I was busy dealing with the effects of the quake. I still remember telling him that I had absolutely nothing else to do other than talk on the phone in the dark so we might as well have a good conversation!

 

[rp2813]

The telcos knew that back-up systems had to be more robust at some switching offices than others.  One local exchange that serves an area dominated by high tech companies has a jet engine in the basement to keep things going in the event of a power outage, while another exchange where I had an office for a while is a relatively recent small one that serves a predominantly residential area, and it has minimal battery back-up.

 

There's no question that overhead wires are vulnerable to weather phenomena and accidental damage, but the testimonials are overwhelming in their numbers with regard to land lines remaining in working order while other utilities are out of service for hours or even days at a time.  There is no question that this would not be the case if a monopoly had not existed to skillfully execute a federal mandate for a telecommunications network that was secure and virtually 100% reliable.

 

You can thank the old Ma Bell for that.  Today's telcos couldn't give a rat's ass about maintaining wireline facilities, as is reflected by their petitions to eliminate them.

[this post was last edited: 4/25/2014-15:03]

 

[hydralique]

Exactly . . .

When Ernestine and Vito ran the company they made sure everyone could always count on their instruments, from La Crawford right on down the list.

 

[wayupnorth]

As a former telephone company employee, yes, your corded landline phone will work in a power outage as long as the lines are intact all the way to your home. In Maine, there are 2 central switching stations that every call placed or received is routed thru. They have huge banks of batteries and the 2 of the biggest DC diesel generators I ever saw. Smaller switching stations also have the battery back-up and smaller generators. In 19 years in this home and numerous outages of power, not once did I ever loose phone service.

 

[stan]

Hi Guys

This turned out to be an interesting thread! I've learned !
The service tech came out yesterday (I was at work, so my partnered delta with the situation) he wasn't able to make things work, so they just put the old modem back, so the phone work again. I frankly wasn't able to see a difference between the new, and old modems, except that the new one wouldn't understand the old phones dialing out. If I'd been here I would have just kept the new modem in, and tried the "Dialgizmo" (provided I could keep the old modem, just in case)

The thought of my land line transmitting wireless in the future make me furious!
I've kept my land line all this time for just that reason. I don't get angry about too many things, but if you want to see me turn into a crazed maniac, just try to take away my dial phones, my land line, my, carburetor, mechanical fuel pump, and of course my top loading washing machines.

Here is a pic for Ralph of the transmitter.

 

[stan]

One

More

 

[stan]

The

Old fuse that was in the basement

 

[d-jones]

Old fuse that was in the basement

That's the kind of thing I love to see. Little relics of the past quietly holding on for decades, each one telling a little story about the buildings age and history, but only to those that know what they're looking at. I'm glad you saved it.

 

[whirlaway]

Its Called a protecter

What you are looking at was replaced by the grey plastic box on your house.The middle bakelite knob unscrews and inside are carbons,that when higher voltage goes across them they go to ground.Thus protecting your phone,I still have my original one in my basement that was installed in 38,I did this work for Ma bell for 30years.I still have the twisted station wire in my house,works fine and 302 and 354 setsin use everyday.When Isabel hit us I never lost service,even though my reg power was out 12 days.We even had the generators running our huts from our cable trucks just to keep service.My neighbors of course lost cell phones and cordless phones.If you have a landline always keep an old reg bell phone in a closet in case you need it dial or tt.

 

[rp2813]

Hey Stan, you've got the retrofit in that E1 handset, which is the only way to go.  The original transmitters for the E1 were vastly inferior.  What you have in there is an F1 transmitter capsule, just like the type in F1 handsets that are found on model 302 phones and many D-1 and B-1 bases.  Ma Bell never let anything go to waste, so Western Electric designed a retrofit package that would update the many E1's still in service with the new and improved F1 transmitter.

 

Initially field techs were instructed to do the F1 transmitter retrofit whenever they found an E1 handset with the original type of transmitter, and  eventually as parts supplies dwindled they were instructed to replace the entire E1 handset with an F1, but a lot of E1's survived.  I think an E1 is far more easily cradled on your shoulder than an F1 type, and that's why I don't have any 302's deployed in parts of the house where they would get used regularly.

 

Trust me, if you still had the original "bullet" type transmitter in that handset, nobody would be able to hear you very well, and you'd get nothing but complaints from distant parties.

 

Sadly, I don't think copper has a snowball's chance of survival in the current telecom climate.  Combine that with a former Comcast lobbyist being in charge of the FCC who is sympathetic to telco and broadband providers, and the consumer is basically screwed as far as monthly charges and quality of service are concerned into the foreseeable future and likely well beyond.

 

[tolivac]

Copper is going to have a hard time--COST!!!!and even possible theft of it.Communications companies are now running fiber optic cables instead-lower cost-and NOT vulnerable to EMP.
NYC writer--Again the infranstruture can again be repaired faster than you think.Lines and components can be replaced-even if damaged by EMP.That is why there are spares.The EMP pulse theory is overplayed.Our system can be sectionalized-they are components in the grid systems to do this. Pole line components called "reclosers" act as circuit breakers to protect line systems.They work with "Sectionalizers"-reclosers are set for "3 shots" if they are tripped from a fault more than that-get out your flashlights.The sectionalizer will isolate that faulted part of the line until it can be repaired.This is done without human interface-Reclosers and sectionalizers are common pole eqquipment.Look up they are there.They are small devices that look like smaller pole transformers-and control boxes at the base of the pole.Underground systems have these in cabinets that look like ground mount transformers. Manually operated isolation switches are on some poles-designed so they can be operated by a special tool linemen have..At our transmitter site-we hade an insulator failure one night.The site had NO power for like almost 8 hrs-the system here was in an isolation and protection mode.The 115Kv primay switches to our substation were opened by remote control from Duke Power.Our genset was locked out,too.After the insulator was replaced-back to normal.
Remember the carbon block "fuses" on Telco circuits-find them at older radio station transmitter sites for the STL feeder lines from the studio.Now that transmitters site audio is fed by 900Hmz STL systems the TELCO feeders are no longer used-even for backup as they used to be.And some transmitter remote control systems used these.Now they are digital remote control systems.
Oh yes-just today we had a close call-afternoon shift spotted a rope tornado not far from our 115Kv primary feeders-luckily they weren't hit.No antennas or transmission lines were hit,either.We had some severe storms in the area on Friday evening.Missed all this-was asleep!!