Open thread to Club on topic of Valuation and Education of our Potential Sellers

[jetcone]

This thread has grown out of Northwestys' thread on the Westinghouse Dryer and $2500 dishwasher.

What are the clubs opinion on the format of the Reward's Page.

There has been some discussion of late and people are weighing in on the subject. This thread is for idea searching to generate a Rewards's page we will all find useful to the whole club.

I'll head up the discussion since I am opening this issue so don't go barraging Robert with your ideas. Either email me or post them here.

THE GOAL HERE IS TO 'Educate and Encourage Seller interest and yet not open the door to WILD speculation, like $1500.00 combos in unworkable condition and $2500.00 dishwashers!

This is what I last wrote after Mark, Steve and Robert chimed in on Northwesty's thread at the bottom.

"I think you all make good points. Lets not do anything yet to the list and think on this some more.

Anyone else out there have an opinion on how to go about raising Seller Conciousness?

Robert can you tell which page gets the most new hits? Do alot of new people show up at Applianceville or the Wanted List?
I would figure most of the new people would be a traffic of sellers not new members.

I think we should keep the Rewards page.
I think a redit is in order though. Something like remove all the pricing on each machine and just have a blanket statement up at the top where you have posted the Value based upon condition.
Something like what you already have posted under the Hotpoints: $75-$350.

I like that range because machines come in wide range of conditions AND this leaves the door wide open to haggling with the seller!

Place it where you have at the current disclaimer up at the top
"Rewards are based on several factors: condition of machine, easy access to machine for removal, and wether machine must be crated and shipped a distance. Rewards can run anywhere from Free where We take that junk out of your way; to money paid $75-$350 per machine.
Forward your item with pictures to our webmaster and he will notify the whole club to see if there is an interest in your machine."

This peeks the sellers interest and also would stop wild speculation.
Thats what we want to accomplish here.

jon

 

[toggleswitch]

How much for that?

Perhaps part of the wild pricing of collectible washers has to do with collectible stove/range pricing.

Huge sums are being paid for these FULLY RESOTRED gems. They don't need to hold water nor do they have any major moving parts, hence the price; they should last indefinitely and/or can be re-restored IMHO relativley easily

On a classic gas stove you re-grease the gas vales, calibrate the thrermostat and you have the door hinges, end of moving parts list.

Washers however.............

 

[gansky1]

When we set up the "Wanted" page a number of years ago, Robert opened it up to the entire membership for input, just as he has done now. The format was agreed upon and those prices were set by the members who stated the maximum amounts they were willing to pay for machines they really wanted. None of these were arbitrary numbers, those whose names appear on the list set the prices. Some prices are indeed jaw droppers, and others are quite low - even for machines that are or have been historically more rare than some of the higher priced machines. Perhaps just a revision of this list is necessary as many of the members on the list have either found the machines, don't want/need to find them, or in some cases, don't wish to pay the prices they once did. If we remove the reward amounts altogether and let the free market set the prices, there will still be those that complain and quite possibly, those that are elated with the bargains they are able to negotiate.

Because of this website (and this Wanted/Reward page) there have been many machines that are now in some of our collections that otherwise might have never been "rescued" from the crusher. For this we owe a debt of gratitude to our webmaster and to the other members of this site who go to the trouble of picking up, posting pictures and offering machines that might be of interest to us. Likewise, there have been and will continue to be many vintage machines that are "found" one way or another that either nobody has in interest in owning or are unable to work out the logistics and expense of moving a 300lb washer across the country.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Jon, you are absolutely right and I thank you for calling it to our attention. I wrote about this when the values attached to the various desiderata were first posted years ago. We need to let people know that old appliances have worth beyond scrap metal, but if there are wildly inflated values posted here, they will expect to receive that amount or set the opening bid or Buy it Now price on eBay at way more than their appliance is worth, especially when transportation costs are factored in. Sometimes bidding gets intense for a particularly rare item and some sellers might base a reserve on that high price when what they have is not worth it. In that case, they soon see that they are out of line, but we should do all we can to avoid encouraging what my brother called Bend Over Prices. Keeping prices in line benefits all of us, especially the beginning collectors. We all remember the thrill of acquiring our first "dream appliance" so making it possible for them to share in this thrill makes collecting have a stronger base. Increasing the number of people who can show family and friends a classic appliance increases the number people who will become aware of them and possibly cause them to notice what they overlooked before. I remember the morning in the Spring of 1982 when our good friend Michael G. noticed the back corner of what he thought was an electric stove sitting in an alley near his home and phoned in a report. Thanks to him, I got my 60 Filtrator dryer that just happened to match the washer we had found a few months earlier.

Thank you Jon, for proposing a very smart second look at what the public sees on those pages.

 

[panthera]

modest suggestion

I think we should simply make a blanket statement:
"The price is determined by the condition, location and desire for an individual appliance. Please contact [email protected] if you have a machine to offer. Thanks!"

No prices, no explicit statement of desire...

I do agree, sellers are much more market aware than they were even two years ago, no point raising prices even more by indicating we are too interested.

And this is a good place to, once again, say thanks to all the folks around here who invest their time and creativity to keep things interesting!

 

[Unimatic1140]

Thanks Jon! Great idea to start a new thread on this topic. As for your question about hits on the Rewards page it is very minimal compared to the other pages. 0.5 percent of the 2007 page hits are to that page so far, 89% of the hits are to the various Discuss-o-Mat pages and threads. Next is the POD and after that is the Photo’s of Collections.

I agree with everything Greg just said above. I think we should remove the member names as they are way out of date as well. Those prices are not arbitrary but were given to me by what members were willing to pay for a few years back. Nothing has really changed since then. I believe that the Rewards page as it is now has drawn out many more machines out of hiding that would have otherwise simply been thrown away, that is why it was created in the first place. Others might disagree with me, but removing any incentives for people to contact me will do just that.

The $2500 Bendix Dryer list on Craigslist sort of shows what I have been trying to say all along. The $2000 pink Maytag eBay set in Florida is another example. You cannot blame those ridiculous prices on our rewards page because it is 10 times what we have posted. If you remove the prices from the page and make blanket statements such as “Reasonable monetary compensation will always be taken into consideration” that can mean “I’ll get nothing next to nothing so why bother” to one person and another will say “well I think my old dryer is extremely rare so reasonable monetary compensation is $2,500 at least maybe more”. We need to give these people a clue about what we are willing to pay for these machines.

Again you guys come up with a consensus of how you would like the brands and statements posted (excluding the Apex) I will gladly change that page ASAP. Maybe a vote should be taken, I don’t know exactly how you guys can come up with consensus? As for the Apex, I personally am willing to give a owner of an Apex in restorable shape $700 so that is going to stay with any changes at my discretion. I might adjust to text to read a special “triple value award” will be given for an Apex” or something along those lines. As the one who writes the checks to pay for this site I believe I am well within my prerogative to keep that as is. But the rest is completely up to you guys so come back to me with changes.

This is a great club discussion, everyone please give us your input.

 

[lightedcontrols]

here goes!

I think putting a price on machines that are wanted is a good idea, but I wouldn't put a price of over $200 on anything. At 200 bucks, I'm sure the potential sellers will take note! I would also make it VERY CLEAR on the wanted page that $200 would be top dollar on a machine that was in perfect working order or at the very least easily restorable condition. Mark

 

[danemodsandy]

Maybe a Seller's Guide?

What about a sellers' guide section, with some info on what goes into restoration of a machine? Steve's recent Maytag restoration shots ought to make it pretty clear that a lot of work and expense goes into making someone's back-porch special into a beautiful machine worth real money.

From my experience in both the antiques field and car restoration, I can tell you that most people think of restoration as a simple cleaning and taking care of obvious flaws (more or less). I can't tell you how many Volvos I've seen that the owner considers "restored", when what they've done is to put a Maaco paint job, some seat covers, and a CD player on the car. They have no clue that a truly restored car looks, acts, and feels exactly the way it did on the day it left the factory, down to the tiniest details.

If it can be made clear just how much work and expense go into restoration, then it might be possible to educate sellers to the idea that there's a reason they're not being offered the kind of money perfectly restored examples can fetch.

 

[goprog]

A Seller's Guide would be reasonable along with a condition
chart (similar to Kelly's Blue Book or Edmunds for vehicles.)
Together they give a prospective seller a better expectation
of what their appliance might be worth.

I would also guess most people probably try to get an idea of
what their appliance is worth (if they even try) by looking at
ebay before they look here. Of course the current and recently
closed auctions will probably not have example prices and
conditions for the machines wanted here just because they don't
become available that often?

 

[eddy1210]

so many variables

I think the idea is to communicate that there IS a value to these old machines, but dependent of course on the condition of machine. The dealer in Edmonton where I found and bought my pink '58 Filter Flo wanted $350 which was his "normal" price for reconditioned machines but "no warranty and as is" he said. I thought that was a fair price. The idea that Jon had of a range, let's say $75 - $350 with the exception of some very rare machines which command top dollar such as Apex and a '47 GE etc. Good thread, lets hear from others....

 

[gyrafoam]

IMO $200.00 TOP DOLLAR is PLENTY of incentive for the uninformed public to get for an old cast-off that has been sitting in a basement or garage and left to rot. And I would make it clear that the machine would need to be in good operating condition for that much money!

I disagree with the opinion that $100.00 is not enough money for anyone to bother with. Its a hell of a lot more money than anyone will ever get out of a krusher or junk-hauler.

There must be some middle-ground that will provide incentive and not "Pie-in-the-Sky". AND it just might prove helpful over the long-run when dealing with used-appliance sharks as well.

My two shekels.

 

[jetcone]

Good thoughts All!

I think I am begining to see a consensus. The club mostly feels the need for quoted pricing. The club feels the need to convey to the seller there is a heck of alot of work to be done on these machines because unlike MOST antiques we expect them to go back to work for us. Like cars but even Vintage Cars do not get driven weekly but we expect our machines to be driven weekly.

I think all the sellers are in the dark about just what we do with these gems when they turn up. Most people who view my collection are stunned that my rule is the machine must work to be in the collection that its not just dolls on a shelf.

So far I see:
1) a price range to educate the sellers
2) some machines are so wanted that they get a special reward posted specifically for them.
3) sellers need to have a SHORT QUICK education as to what we exaclty do with these machines once we take them off their hands.
4) Sellers need to be made aware that buyers quite often ship or drive long distances and this will have an effect on the price.

Anymore thoughts to add to the discussion?

Jon

 

[gyrafoam]

Jet------

IMO would like to add #5 to the list: Allowance MUST be made for the need or possibility to procure obsolete parts. (Some of this can be assessed by observing the condition of the unit at the time of removal, some must be anticipated.)

I would use great care in the wording of Line#2 as everybody's machine is "special" to them where possible "treasure" is concerned----the public has no clue as to why we would want this junk, much less pay for it. Therefore they still view it as "junk they might get a dollar or two for"----untill and unless we give them reason to think otherwise!

 

[jetcone]

Yes Steve

I see your point. I was really only speaking to the Club right now not our future sellers. We will tone down the wording to make it workable for all.

Jet

 

[danemodsandy]

Variables...

I think some information that helps people understand what a crapshoot vintage appliance restoration can be would be useful.

Here's what I mean. A small water leak on a centre-dial Maytag is often (though not always) the fill flume- cheap and easy. On a Frigidaire 1-18, a water leak can be super-expensive. A burner that doesn't work on a vintage GE Stratoliner can be the burner (not too bad), a wiring fault (sometimes requiring professional testing to trace), or the switch (which can be pretty expensive if it's one of the older, rarer ones). And a burner for a Frigidaire Flair can cost quite a lot more than one for a GE.

So, info that helps people understand that eBay descriptions like "one burner not working" or "small water leak" can lead to cheap or expensive fixes would be useful, I think. BTW, I'm a magazine writer, so if I can be of any help here, please feel free to ask.