Out with the old and in with the older.......

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I've got a Bosch 43CU MOL machine, about 8 years old, and I have no complaints about the cleaning or the drying. The cycles ARE long, though. Usually about 1 hr 35 minutes on regular cycle.

What's good about the Bosch: very quiet (although not the quietest), cleans very well, frugal on energy, frugal on dw detergent, frugal on water, frugal on rinse aid, and you can put plastic items in the bottom rack without worrying about them melting from an exposed heating element (the heating element is hidden in a water chamber below). The upper rack is also height adjustable, and can be removed completely for washing extra tall items (like that 20 qt stock pot). The final rinse can be set to 161F which does some extra "sanitizing" and also aids drying.

What's not so good about the Bosch: Long-ass cycles (aforementioned 1 hr 35 minutes). Racks are slightly shorter than American dw's. Filter has to be cleaned manually. If not cleaned enough, it will start to stink a bit and I will notice little particles left on the glassware. Drying may not be quite as complete as with a hot air driven drying cycle, but it's acceptable to me.

I do have a Kitchenaid or two that I could replace the Bosch with. Namely a KDS-18 and a KDS-21. I lean towards the 18, because the heating element is more recessed. And as I recall, the 21 has a plastic cold air blower, vs the heated metal air blower of the 18. Maybe some day I will. Would be really nice if I could install BOTH dishwashers in the kitchen, but currently don't have the under-counter space for it. Then again, Home Depot is just a few miles away, and has plenty of cabinetry... lol...
 
So Bob, it appears that in both the Bosch and the KitchenAid the silverware bin belongs on the right side of the rack? Is that correct?

The friend of Gary's is used to a classic KitchenAid and likes his tableware-holders in the front, where it was located (for him) for decades!

The KA is a bit louder, but NOT BAD!
 
Do you know if he had set the bosch to boost the final rinse

Yes, he did that.

Still hated the fact that the dishes were not dry when left overnite in the dw.

The Bosch was completely silent. The only way you knew it was working was a red light directed to the floor. It also beeped when finished(could not hear that to open door when sleeping upstairs).

All in all, he seems much happier with the KA. Is the loading the only factor for not putting the silver basket in the front? It seemed to clean the silverware fine on it maiden load after installation.
 
KitchenAid

I would check the bushings that the Hydrosweep rides on. If they are worn out/broken it is worth replacing them. Ours did (one model higher than the one pictured) and washing performance suffered dramatically as it did not allow the Hydrosweep to spin properly and a lot of the pressurized water probably didn't make it to the wash arms.

I replaced the bushing on the top spray arm too even though it was probably still OK.

FWIW, these machines came in second in Consumer Reports in those years just behind the Bosch. We have enjoyed ours for 10 years.

Andrew S.
 
I've yet to find a dish that isn't bone dry at the end of a Bosch cycle.

It is important to unload the lower rack first, though. If you pull the upper rack, water left in the upper wash arm will sprinkle down on the dishes below.

And of course the water that collects in the bottoms of inverted tea cups etc will not have all evaporated by the end of the cycle. I actually prefer that to the tell-tale mineral deposits if it is forced to evaporate by a hot air cycle. It only takes a quick wipe with a dish towel to dry out these little puddles. For items like Glad or Ziplock plastic food storage containers, which collect water in their rims, I just put them right side up in the rack as the last act in unloading, and the collected water drains out fairly quickly. Or I give them a good shake/tap on the rack and the water spurts out. Not a problem for me.
 
This ain't my hosue, so please pardon the schmutz. I would have cleaned so that you judgemental bitches wouldn't be dis'in my @$$. :-)

Oh, Toggles. That has to be one of the funniest things I have read here in a long time. I am still laughing my ass off!
 
Oh, Toggles,

there you go again. If I have to experience the joys of free English only vicariously, at least I have your talented tongue to please me.

Bosch builds very good dishwashers, I am surprised at how poorly this one performed. We'll see more of the 60cm and less and less of the inch stuff over time. There are now only three countries left on the planet which still 'think' in inch.
 
I recently took similar action

. . . by replacing my '90 Maytag with an '85 Thermador 3600. The Maytag worked fine, but it was really loud, had an inefficient rack design (my opinion) along with a despicable pop-up tower and it looked ugly with yellowed plastic control panel, as well as just plain cheap.

The Thermador is less noisy although by no means quiet, but unlike a new machine, it gets the job done in no time flat. We fabricated new front trim panels for it that give the stainless steel look even though they're aluminum. Pix to be posted here eventually. It fits in so much better with the rest of the SS appliances in the kitchen even though it's 25 years old. I'm very pleased, and it's turning out to be a good performer too.

I'm all in favor of out with the old and in with the older. Nice job rescuing a perfectly good KA machine.
 
Are those newer generation KD's any good in comparison with the Hobart KD's? My left brow is raised, as I'm skeptical.
Bobby in Boston
 
Bobby, I think you're talking apples & oranges between an older KA with a Hobart design that uses plenty of water & pressure and gets the job done quick, and a new one that's 100% Whirlpool, powerlessly uses minimal water (a "sprinkler in a box" as one member has put it) and takes hours to finish its job.
 
Ugh, every time I see this upper rack, I have to wonder what they were thinking. Why didn't Bosch just use the Euro upper rack - it way more flexible.

I have to wonder about the statements on lacking capacity, however. The WhirlAid has tines to accommodate 11 plates - in one row. The Bosch can take 17 in one row. European Bosch dishwashers, with their back row of tines spaced nearer together, even holds 23 plates in one row. What if one has to wash a large amount of plates? How would you load them?

Regarding the racking, Bosch introduced new Americanized racks with the 800 Series dishwasher. The 800 Plus dishwashers have the true Euro rack system. Also note that the silverware basket can be placed anywhere in the lower rack. The picture above (Post# 413788)can be misleading.

The installation process for US dishwashers also seems radically different from what I have experienced. The water inlet is behind the toe-kick? There is a junction box? Soo complicated. When we bought our Siemens, everything was already attached. We just had to hook up the two water hoses and plug the appliance in - simple as that. The most "complicated" thing was to attach the custom door panel.
 
And this is our Siemens back in Dec. of 2006. As you can see, it's almost fully encased in stainless steel panels (plus insulation underneath it, of course). The power cord and the hoses are attached to the back of the unit.

logixx++2-9-2010-13-47-35.jpg
 
I'm surprised that Bosch doesn't have a metal cabinet all around.. I thought they did like our Miele had and the Siemens above?
The 05 KA in this house had to have a new element, a new circuitboard in 06.. Now the rinse-aid dispenser doesn't work.. Guess what brand I won't be buying in the future. Nope..
 
~I've yet to find a dish that isn't bone dry at the end of a Bosch cycle.

The kitchen in Gary's friend's kitchen is literally the furthest point from the hot water heater. So excessively long wash and rinse phases means that the water in the lines is stone cold the NEXT time the Bosch (or any DW) there fills up.

Perhaps this is a factor
 
This ain't my house, so please pardon the schmutz. I would have cleaned so that you judgemental bitches wouldn't be dis'in my @$$. :-)

~Oh, Toggles. That has to be one of the funniest things I have read here in a long time. I am still laughing my ass off!

LOL glad to be able to make you smile. Actually my house wouldn't be that dirt to BEGIN with. I do a little each day and do really NEED to do a major cleaning too often.

But you should see me with the vacuum-cleaner in one had, the mop in the other and the duster shoved right up...........
All I have to do is twirl around like a ballerina and this place gets cleaned by "Hurricane Toggle." LOL
 
Water heater distance from Boschland

Oh, I don't know. It takes a long time for hot water to reach the kitchen sink (the piping doesn't take a direct route, go figure), but the Bosch has an internal water heater that will boost even ice cold water to 160 F if it's set to do that in the final rinse. Otherwise I think it's about 140F. Still plenty hot. Obviously the machine will take longer to complete a cycle if the water coming in is always cold, but the final result should be the same, due to the inline internal water heater.

It probably helps to insulate the hot water pipes as well.
 
the furthest point from the hot water heater

Hmm, that may not be good in this case. For the Bosch, it delays until set temp is reached (i.e. cold fill capability). For U.S. dishwashers that are electronic, they will only delay for a certain length of time and if the set temp point hasn't been reached, the computer will continue on its timer journey. I think for the final rinse, it will max out at about 40 minutes. Probably no more than that for the main wash too.

And as far as the silverware basket at the front of the rack, I thought more about this and I"m just as against it for another reason. The detergent dispenser door has to flip up and over for it to release its contents. I've seen mention in this series dishwasher manual to be careful of what is placed at the front of the bottom rack which might prevent the door from flipping open. I know with my TT, I've learned to be somewhat careful in what I place on the far left of the rack (my dispenser is more toward the left side)--especially a 9 x 13 pan or 9" or 10" skillet scrunched right up to the edge of the rack. That will cause the trap door to get "caught" come time for it to flip up and it won't release the detergent. I was used having a GE made dishwasher for 23 years and it was nice to open the door and plop something in the flatware basket. And with the new TT the basket is on the far right side. I LEARNED TO ADAPT AND ADJUST fairly quickly!!! Now I don't miss it. I simply will put stuff in quick llike that if the basket is toward the front right corner. If he can't adjust, go find him a porcelain tubbed KA.
 
Your friends getting the Bosch

Is there anything on that aging GE2800 which might be useful for yours Gary? Obvously the electronic board must still be functioning.
 

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