Parential Responsibility

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Vicarious Liability

In NY,CT,RI there is a vicarous liability law which makes the registered owner of the vehicle responsible,as well as the driver. In these states, you cannot "lease" a vehicle, you get "smart buy" packages that work like a lease in that it subracts the vale of the car at the end of the term from the total financed. The title is held by the "Smart Buy" customer. The option to purchase is a baloon payment at the end of the lease,or a trade in for that vale.
It goes back to the early 1920's. If your chauffer hits and kills someone, you, the owner of the vehicle is also responsible since you provided the means to cause the damage. BAck to the 2008 era. Obviously, in a taxi, you don't own the vehicle, so if your driver runs someone over, your name is not on the title to that cab.
We have strange laws on the books that vary by state. The parent who lets a kid use their car takes on the liabiliy of whatever the teen does. You're giving a kid a 40,000 car registered to you to go out on graduation night, what do you think they will be doing?
 
John Travolta

Why does everyone mention JT. He had nothing to do with it. Dumb kids in an overpowered car, thats all.
 
IMO-------

The court will likely say:
The teen was an adult, as were all the other occupants who evidently willingly got in the car with him. I believe the State of Florida is still a "No-Fault" Automobile Insurance State, so even if the law assigns responsibility for the accident to the driver, the insurance company is the one who is going to have to make (at least the initial) pay-out. Liability and Wrongful Death.

The owner of the car better hope the teen was a listed and bound (by insurance) driver of that vehicle, if not the insurer will turn around and sue the owner of the car. So far, alcohol has not been proven to be a factor.
Everything else is speculation since no one knows for sure who "AmericanM5" really is.

Makes no difference (as an adult) how or where he got the car. For instance, if he had borrowed the car from a neighbor, it is still the insurance company that is going to have to make (at least the initial) the pay-out.

Makes no difference where he (as an adult) resides. For instance, if he lived in an apartment complex, should the resident manager or the owner be held responsible for this tragedy?

Naaaah.
 
I'll chime in here with two things. If I had teens, I might consider not having them drive at all until 18-19 and live in a place that is not so dependent on a car. There is a book called "Divorce Your Car" about this subject. I have heard of people paying 1900 a year for teen car insurance. Think of how many clothes, books, musical instruments, and sports equipment that could buy, as well as help pay for college. Some people I find brag about their careless driving. I had a supervisor who drove aggressively (she would tail on the way to work). She told me once that she had to work so many hours because she caused a wreck and her car insurance was $2500. Isn't that at lot for a woman? She should have just taken the bus (where she lived, that was possible), I would if I had to pay that much. Oh, and she was 44 years old.

There was some talk of the gay issue here and I don't want to offend anyone but I just have to say this. There was a show on History Channel, "Life After People". On their message board, there was the question "What would wipe out people and only people" and while other people said the rapture, or aliens or a virus, I came up with an answer: A Gay Bomb!. A flash of pink light, a loud sound like Elton John, and rainbow in the sky after wards and people lose interest in what couples usually do and eventually there are no people left. But the buildings and landscape are a lot better looking and there are still a lot of hair care products left in the world! Don't mean to offend but I just had to come up with this. Bob.
 
JT was brought into this equation basically because this accident happened in his back yard. He is one of the home owners of Jumbolair Estates. I put the photo of his house up there to show the size of a 707 to demonstrate what would happen if that 707 was moving around the airfield with those kids on the runway.

Time outs !!!!!!!!!

I laugh when I hear that. Negotiating is for kidnappers and terrorists....NOT CHILDREN!!!

Not too long ago an AirTran flight was delayed at the gate due to the fact that a 4 year old kid climbed under one of the seats and wouldn't come out. The parents were "negotiating" with the kid to come out while the flight crew steamed. Finally, the parents and kid were ordered off the plane and it left almost an hour late. The cabin crew couldn't get the "cabin secured" without the kid being properly contained in a seat.

As far as my opinion of this accident goes, I think the parents of the driver will be ultimately responsible. Most likely they had the kid listed on their insurance policy as I think an independent policy for an 18 year old and that car would have been simply astronomical, if obtainable at all. If that were my kid, I probably would have bound and gagged him and locked him in his room.
I wasn't going to mention this, but did anyone see the photo of the driver of the car? He definitely had a smart ass smirk on his face. I noticed that most of the photos have been removed from most of the stories covering this accident. Looks lke the lawyers are earning their keep.

I see kids every day on my job. They run the gamut of all kinds of behaviors, from perfectly mannered little adults to out of control little princesses and monsters. I think you try your best to instill the proper behaviors in them when they are young and hope for the best when they become adults.
 
Now Whirlcool-------

You know you can't get away with binding and gaging your children anymore! Even BEFORE they become LEGAL adults they can still have YOU arrested and jailed----even sue you in some states! If the charge of "kidnapping" can be substantiated----that is a Federal charge a la FBI!

Now, the folks in Singapore have a wonderful old practice of CANING those unruly brats. A great deterrent.
Think you could ever get something like that established in the U.S.? Naaaah------kids rule!
 
"The kid driving was 18, the car registered to daddy. It's my opinion that daddy is responsible for what happened, the car was his."

I think it would be a tough call as a straight (?) yes or no.

If the 18yo was known to be reckless, then I'd say the father should be held responsible to a good extent because he had prior knowledge of past transgressions and gave the kid the car anyway (negligence). I wonder if there's anything like "negligent accessory to vehicular manslaughter" on the books???

However, if the 18yo was typically a "good kid" and this was a "one-off" sort of deal, then I wouldn't assign any major responsibility to the parent.

How's that??

Chuck
 
I just love the bound and gagged as a emphasis on how I would have felt. It was figurative rather that a literal. Just like when you hear "I'm going to kill that kid when he gets home". But I tell you...........
The driver as noted earlier had 4 moving violations in the preceding two years. He also had a suspended drivers license. So he did prove to have a less than safe driving record. Basically, the kid had no business being in control of any car, let alone a high performance sedan.

And yes, Florida does have vehicular manslaughter laws on the books. The link will take you to the definition of it as the State of Florida sees it. It looks like this is what will be used. But the question is the auto was not being operated on a state road. It was being operated on a surface that legally is under the control of the Federal Aviation Administration.

From the FAA:

No person shall operate any motor vehicle or mobile equipment on the Air Operations Area (AOA) except:

a. Persons assigned to duty thereon who have passed a ramp driving examination and who have been authorized by the Airport Manager.

b. Hangar tenants, other hangar tenants, airline employees or subcontractors and FAA staff to and from their hangar or gate/cargo facilities, or offices, as applicable.

The privilege to operate a vehicle on the AOA may be suspended or revoked at any time by Airport Management or designee with or without cause.

 
Oh yeah, before the dust finally settles there will me some serious changes to the facilities at the fly-in communities as well as a lot more "sign on the dotted line that you understand your responsibility in regards to---------" before you can purchase property in one.

The FAA is going to make them station a gnome at the entrance to the runway, 24 hrs.a day or something similiar.
 
Chuck,

The kid driving had 4 tickets under his belt already, one of which was for driving on a SUSPENDED LICENSE.

The kid should not have been behind the wheel of any car.

I wouldn't have bound and gagged him, but had I been his parent, I would have made damn sure he was not driving ANY motor vehicle.
 
Steve:
Do you fly? You seem to have some aviation knowledge.

The Greystone airport is a gated access facility. One of the things that is trying to be determined is how those kids got in there. Did someone give them the access code? (One of the girls a the party DID live there and knew the access code, but she swears she didn't reveal it to them). Or did someone leave the gate open?

I think this case is going to end up being a poster child for parential responsibility. I have seen this subject come up on tons of discussion boards. Many, like this one, are not aviation related. But the thing I find is that most of the responses across all the sites seem to be the same. 1/3 of the people think it's Darwins law at work, 1/3 blame the parents and 1/3 consider it spoiled rich brats at fault. And about 10% of the people are totally heartless about it.

What do you think?
 
Chuck,
The kid driving had 4 tickets under his belt already, one of which was for driving on a SUSPENDED LICENSE.

Sorry, I missed that even though it was staring me in the face.

If daddy let him have the car, lock daddy up... and I don't mean in the good way!!!

Chuck

p.s. My local mild-mannered housewife and part-time stenographer/advisor, Ron, "Mona," Kenmore58, tells me that there's a little something known as "contributory negligence" (krej on the steno machine), and the parents of the driver will be living in a refrigerator box when the other parents' attorneys get done with them.
 
well I agree with Kenmore58

except screw the fridge box, a dishwasher box is good enough.

Not alot of info on that kid's parents though...
 
It seems that the Florida Gaming Commission doesn't like being linked to. So here is the info:

Name: AMMIRATO, SANTO SANDY G (Primary Name)
(DBA Name)
Main Address: 2108 - 79TH STREET
BROOKLYN New York 11214

License Type: Pari-Mutuel Wagering Individual-Occupational
Rank: Prof Individual
License Number: PNXXXXXX

This information is freely available on the internet. I blocked out the numbers of the license. It's expired anyway.
 

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