kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Oh..I see now, I agree.
Thanks
Thanks
persil
- Thread starter billiedyer1954
- Start date
Help Support :
Case In Point
Have decided to start using some of the vast amounts of European detergents in my stash.
Last night did several loads of bed linen using the Super Croix pods. Measured out detergent into a dosing ball (an entire pod is too much product for a load of sheets), put into machine, shut door, started machine and went away. Came back and removed spotless and brilliantly white/clean linens. No muss, no fuss, nothing more added including STPP.
Have decided to start using some of the vast amounts of European detergents in my stash.
Last night did several loads of bed linen using the Super Croix pods. Measured out detergent into a dosing ball (an entire pod is too much product for a load of sheets), put into machine, shut door, started machine and went away. Came back and removed spotless and brilliantly white/clean linens. No muss, no fuss, nothing more added including STPP.
passatdoc
Well-known member
My bottle of Persil Power Pearls powder arrived Wednesday from Walmart ($4 shipping beats a trip to the store, which is a 20 minute drive each way for me). I think the spout design is terrible. As others have mentioned, powder accumulates in the neck.
I'd much prefer German-style plastic bag packets that I can empty into my own sealed container...preferably one with a wide lid that allows me to use a coffee measure to dose the detergent. I use old OyxClean containers, but clear Glad food storage containers would also work fine. One could label them with a felt pen, if more than one kind is used (I have Persil Universal and Color MegaPearls, both brought back from Germany).
I had just opened my last remaining packet of Universal MegaPerls when I heard about Persil at Walmart. Therefore, I will resist trying the Walmart stuff until I have used up my existing packet of German Universal Mega-Perls. It does look and smell like the German original. I am happy to hear good results from those who have tried their initial product.
PS I knew one of the Walton family children quite well and was underwhelmed. What a dolt. For that reason, plus the way their treat their employees, I have not set foot in any of their stores for the past decade. I have made two online purchases in the past twelve years: one bottle of Persil, and in 2013 a Vizio smart tv---and only because the model I wanted was sold out at Best Buy, Costco, and on Amazon. Walmart was the only retailer left with any units in stock (and they sold out the day after I purchased mine). At the time of its introduction, the model in question was extremely popular and literally flew off the shelves faster than even Vizio anticipated.
I'd much prefer German-style plastic bag packets that I can empty into my own sealed container...preferably one with a wide lid that allows me to use a coffee measure to dose the detergent. I use old OyxClean containers, but clear Glad food storage containers would also work fine. One could label them with a felt pen, if more than one kind is used (I have Persil Universal and Color MegaPearls, both brought back from Germany).
I had just opened my last remaining packet of Universal MegaPerls when I heard about Persil at Walmart. Therefore, I will resist trying the Walmart stuff until I have used up my existing packet of German Universal Mega-Perls. It does look and smell like the German original. I am happy to hear good results from those who have tried their initial product.
PS I knew one of the Walton family children quite well and was underwhelmed. What a dolt. For that reason, plus the way their treat their employees, I have not set foot in any of their stores for the past decade. I have made two online purchases in the past twelve years: one bottle of Persil, and in 2013 a Vizio smart tv---and only because the model I wanted was sold out at Best Buy, Costco, and on Amazon. Walmart was the only retailer left with any units in stock (and they sold out the day after I purchased mine). At the time of its introduction, the model in question was extremely popular and literally flew off the shelves faster than even Vizio anticipated.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Yes I see, I'm also of the school of thought only the detergent should be enough, always said that, and liquids or pods never do for me for the well known reasons you mentioned, not much for loads like sheets which don't see much dirt, but for stuff like kitchen clothing, rags tablecloths etc, or also colors when medium to extremely dirty/stained.
About liquids and pods I find Henkel's ones being watered down/ineffective vs what are the P&G liquids or others offerings over here, especially for what it costs, never tried the super croix pods but Henkel's stuff is rather too much soapy/frothy and nothing more than that...they generally stink too with exceptions like Bio Presto, liquid Tide and pods also don't do for me but it's still better than Henkel's stuff.
Today's Liquid/gel dixan (which is not nearly comparable to the gel they used to make back in the days) to get a decent slippery wash liquor i'd need to add something to soften water, otherwise it's like I didn't even put some soap forget a detergent, I don't see a good enzyme action in enzimatic stains either..and as you go "TOLler" and "BOLler" with General (Spee in germany), Bio Presto, or german Weiss Raus enzyme action is even worse. OTOH as said liquids never did well for me.
I generally avoid powders missing bleaches also.
I'm actually againts the idea of buying something more when a detergent, at least what would be my ideal detergent could and *should* have everything to guarantee that alone, especially when price is already high, but that is for me, infact I test detergent effectiveness on that..if it doesn't do alone that's no good for me.
Of course though i also said that in the US or whatever market would actually be wise now to distinguish among products with bleach or not, for the simple fact that different people, for different reasons prefer or need to use different bleaching methods.
But as of today I find intelligent to keep out bleaches from classic/basic formulas and offer a W/bleach version for those who have the possibility and want to go with oxy bleaching or simply find it best for them..detergent makers should also do some laundry educational campaigns on that, and generally build their business on that, just think how many percarbonate goes down wasted and not advantaged-of in those"cold water wash",LCB user folk's drains... not on gimmicks.
But that's another matter...
[this post was last edited: 3/26/2015-11:13]
About liquids and pods I find Henkel's ones being watered down/ineffective vs what are the P&G liquids or others offerings over here, especially for what it costs, never tried the super croix pods but Henkel's stuff is rather too much soapy/frothy and nothing more than that...they generally stink too with exceptions like Bio Presto, liquid Tide and pods also don't do for me but it's still better than Henkel's stuff.
Today's Liquid/gel dixan (which is not nearly comparable to the gel they used to make back in the days) to get a decent slippery wash liquor i'd need to add something to soften water, otherwise it's like I didn't even put some soap forget a detergent, I don't see a good enzyme action in enzimatic stains either..and as you go "TOLler" and "BOLler" with General (Spee in germany), Bio Presto, or german Weiss Raus enzyme action is even worse. OTOH as said liquids never did well for me.
I generally avoid powders missing bleaches also.
I'm actually againts the idea of buying something more when a detergent, at least what would be my ideal detergent could and *should* have everything to guarantee that alone, especially when price is already high, but that is for me, infact I test detergent effectiveness on that..if it doesn't do alone that's no good for me.
Of course though i also said that in the US or whatever market would actually be wise now to distinguish among products with bleach or not, for the simple fact that different people, for different reasons prefer or need to use different bleaching methods.
But as of today I find intelligent to keep out bleaches from classic/basic formulas and offer a W/bleach version for those who have the possibility and want to go with oxy bleaching or simply find it best for them..detergent makers should also do some laundry educational campaigns on that, and generally build their business on that, just think how many percarbonate goes down wasted and not advantaged-of in those"cold water wash",LCB user folk's drains... not on gimmicks.
But that's another matter...
[this post was last edited: 3/26/2015-11:13]
jerrod6
Well-known member
Passatdoc
I just dumped my Persil Perls into the same container I dump my Megaperls into, and then dose by tablespoons/teaspoons. When these Perls from Walmart came around I dumped the tablespoons into a cup just to measure the amount of Mils.
With the German Persil I have never used any other additives including chlorine bleach since the instructions on my machine said "never to use it" plus I didn't use it that much in a top loader either because I don't like it , and so with these Persil Perls so far I have not added anything extra either. Infact I don't have anything here at home to add.
Try the Persil Pers without additives and let us know of your experience with them.
I just dumped my Persil Perls into the same container I dump my Megaperls into, and then dose by tablespoons/teaspoons. When these Perls from Walmart came around I dumped the tablespoons into a cup just to measure the amount of Mils.
With the German Persil I have never used any other additives including chlorine bleach since the instructions on my machine said "never to use it" plus I didn't use it that much in a top loader either because I don't like it , and so with these Persil Perls so far I have not added anything extra either. Infact I don't have anything here at home to add.
Try the Persil Pers without additives and let us know of your experience with them.
mich
Well-known member
Powder Detergents with Oxy-Bleach..
From my local Walmart. Sun Powder, Purex Powder, All Powder, Gain Powder, along with Oxiclean & Arm and Hammer Powder. I think even Fab Powder has it.
I personally wouldn't consider "Gain" or "Oxiclean" a cheap powder, but, I may be alone in that. All & Surf are actually very good performers on most stains, despite their low price tags.
I used to really like Tide Original Powder, until there nasty scent change. Even with it being Free, still don't like using the stuff.
From my local Walmart. Sun Powder, Purex Powder, All Powder, Gain Powder, along with Oxiclean & Arm and Hammer Powder. I think even Fab Powder has it.
I personally wouldn't consider "Gain" or "Oxiclean" a cheap powder, but, I may be alone in that. All & Surf are actually very good performers on most stains, despite their low price tags.
I used to really like Tide Original Powder, until there nasty scent change. Even with it being Free, still don't like using the stuff.
Perhaps Should Have Been More Clear
Yes, many powdered detergents do have oxygen bleach. However none outside of those made by P&G and where they deem wish it to be so have bleach activators. My vintage box of Rinso has sodium perborate. Clorox II for Colors has the same IIRC. Ditto Snowy bleach powder, and tons of other things.
Activated oxygen bleaching systems make a huge difference when sodium perborate is used and even to an extend sodium percarbonate. The latter is nicknamed the "cold water" oxygen bleach because it will work in warm or even cool/cold water especially if contact time is increased. However the use of NBOS or TAED with oxygen bleaches creates peracetic acid in situ. PAA is not only a better bleach than hydrogen peroxide it provides greater disinfection properties. PAA is what breweries use to sanitize bottles before beer goes in.
This powerful bleaching is why you often hear person complain Tide With Bleach "faded" their colored laundry even when used in cool or cold water. It also why Persil and many European detergents with such systems developed color versions without. One or two off washes with say Persil Universal probably won't fade your dark blue shirt. However routine use is another matter.
Yes, many powdered detergents do have oxygen bleach. However none outside of those made by P&G and where they deem wish it to be so have bleach activators. My vintage box of Rinso has sodium perborate. Clorox II for Colors has the same IIRC. Ditto Snowy bleach powder, and tons of other things.
Activated oxygen bleaching systems make a huge difference when sodium perborate is used and even to an extend sodium percarbonate. The latter is nicknamed the "cold water" oxygen bleach because it will work in warm or even cool/cold water especially if contact time is increased. However the use of NBOS or TAED with oxygen bleaches creates peracetic acid in situ. PAA is not only a better bleach than hydrogen peroxide it provides greater disinfection properties. PAA is what breweries use to sanitize bottles before beer goes in.
This powerful bleaching is why you often hear person complain Tide With Bleach "faded" their colored laundry even when used in cool or cold water. It also why Persil and many European detergents with such systems developed color versions without. One or two off washes with say Persil Universal probably won't fade your dark blue shirt. However routine use is another matter.
Got a bit happy at the walmart... Lol roughly $12 per container, cheaper than what my cost was through my miele dealer account.
toploader1984
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 551
Walmart
While i was at walmart buying persil i noticed something new by arm & hammer, scent boosters.
While i was at walmart buying persil i noticed something new by arm & hammer, scent boosters.
<gag>
What I'd pay good money for would be a "scent killer", rather than a "booster".
LOL.
What I'd pay good money for would be a "scent killer", rather than a "booster".
LOL.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Launderess...i think we got you well first time..
But we were speaking of cheap powders containing bleach which you said you couldn't think of.. and mitch listed some...
If we wanna speak about cheap detergents in Europe though , I could start with Italy listing you MSDS of the common cheap powder you find over here, offered both by RB and Henkel (we don't have Lever involved in laundry here) that doesn't contain perborate, TAED or any activators the same...just carbonate peroxide.
I came upon a few detergents from small manufacturers that just had perborate, stuff who kept the same formula of many moons ago, stuff that probably wouldn't sell well because would not do well in the average "below 60 degrees trend" washes of today....I hope for their sales they changed it now.
So to be even more clear..perhaps it was me saying "pretty much all" that confused us... I was speaking generally about P&G TOL or not, so including stuff like Gain who are not TOL indeed yet it includes the NOBS..so it was "moi" who perhaps gave birth to this misunderstanding? I apologize.
So...at least here activators in the cheap or BOL powders, forget most stores brand or Private labels, are not *that* common either....the only non-TOL powders I could find TAED in were ones from German discounts like LIDL , yet a large production meant for a large Europewide distribuition, actually they're known marks (just google formil, Almat, Tandil) so much that in some counties they've even been equiparated to stuff like Ariel..but actually not quite cheap (lidl's formil for example costs 8.99 as much as Dash box cost here)and not all formil version does..for ex the XXL box doesn't..anyway still not falling in the cheap BOL category...
Of course all the TOL and some of the MOL offerings (europewide speaking) does have taed but so is in the US with the P&G's "Nonano" thing (am sure can't spell it well) which now owns pretty much 60% or 70% of Laundry market in the US... P&G it's bigger there than here ...less competitors, hence kind of monopolize the market...
But here is my initial affermation, that in the US even though owned by one company you could find TAED or similar the same as here.
Here it's just that you have some more TOL offerings with different names, scents and from some more different manufacturers, USA is huge but a country on it's own, europe is an union of many with internal micro-economies belonging to each country...but for how many detergent/brands you find in each country, always TOL and expensive they remain in each one, in any ways here was why I don't get the big deal about persil's white and cleaning boasting like if it were a thing americans never seen before... that's because I said that I found Tide, Gain to be even better for me in many aspects vs the persil not just about cleaning and whiteness, megaperls (german original) don't also have the damn perborate all people speaks about it allegedly has (see for example MSDS in reply 158) ..but that's a finding..and of course I get that a choice more is always welcome, especially if you don't like Tide or P&G for various reasons, say rinsing (which again, I can't quite share) or frothing whatever.
Also:
True that some TOL detergents with activators in Europe tend to contain Perborate along, say Persil and Dash/Ariel, but as far as I see it, detergents in Europe also include much more ingredients both involved in softening and surfactancy and typical formulas for low diluition vs a hybrid-combo (for both TL and FL) adrressed formula in the US, thus I question if that is because in europe it's left less space in the formulation for more of or "richer" percarbonate, and and so here is why they needed to put a stronger thing like perborate along in order to guarantee the bleaching action using less quantity meant as "volume it keeps" of bleaching compound due to the already large consistency involved in the European TOL products formulas?
Percarbonate takes more space than perborate for what it does....
Perborate alone as additive is also sort of outlawed here unfortunately, still available imported from some other places "under the counter" but rare to be found.
In any ways...all you said was heard loud and clear here...
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-21:55]
But we were speaking of cheap powders containing bleach which you said you couldn't think of.. and mitch listed some...
If we wanna speak about cheap detergents in Europe though , I could start with Italy listing you MSDS of the common cheap powder you find over here, offered both by RB and Henkel (we don't have Lever involved in laundry here) that doesn't contain perborate, TAED or any activators the same...just carbonate peroxide.
I came upon a few detergents from small manufacturers that just had perborate, stuff who kept the same formula of many moons ago, stuff that probably wouldn't sell well because would not do well in the average "below 60 degrees trend" washes of today....I hope for their sales they changed it now.
So to be even more clear..perhaps it was me saying "pretty much all" that confused us... I was speaking generally about P&G TOL or not, so including stuff like Gain who are not TOL indeed yet it includes the NOBS..so it was "moi" who perhaps gave birth to this misunderstanding? I apologize.
So...at least here activators in the cheap or BOL powders, forget most stores brand or Private labels, are not *that* common either....the only non-TOL powders I could find TAED in were ones from German discounts like LIDL , yet a large production meant for a large Europewide distribuition, actually they're known marks (just google formil, Almat, Tandil) so much that in some counties they've even been equiparated to stuff like Ariel..but actually not quite cheap (lidl's formil for example costs 8.99 as much as Dash box cost here)and not all formil version does..for ex the XXL box doesn't..anyway still not falling in the cheap BOL category...
Of course all the TOL and some of the MOL offerings (europewide speaking) does have taed but so is in the US with the P&G's "Nonano" thing (am sure can't spell it well) which now owns pretty much 60% or 70% of Laundry market in the US... P&G it's bigger there than here ...less competitors, hence kind of monopolize the market...
But here is my initial affermation, that in the US even though owned by one company you could find TAED or similar the same as here.
Here it's just that you have some more TOL offerings with different names, scents and from some more different manufacturers, USA is huge but a country on it's own, europe is an union of many with internal micro-economies belonging to each country...but for how many detergent/brands you find in each country, always TOL and expensive they remain in each one, in any ways here was why I don't get the big deal about persil's white and cleaning boasting like if it were a thing americans never seen before... that's because I said that I found Tide, Gain to be even better for me in many aspects vs the persil not just about cleaning and whiteness, megaperls (german original) don't also have the damn perborate all people speaks about it allegedly has (see for example MSDS in reply 158) ..but that's a finding..and of course I get that a choice more is always welcome, especially if you don't like Tide or P&G for various reasons, say rinsing (which again, I can't quite share) or frothing whatever.
Also:
True that some TOL detergents with activators in Europe tend to contain Perborate along, say Persil and Dash/Ariel, but as far as I see it, detergents in Europe also include much more ingredients both involved in softening and surfactancy and typical formulas for low diluition vs a hybrid-combo (for both TL and FL) adrressed formula in the US, thus I question if that is because in europe it's left less space in the formulation for more of or "richer" percarbonate, and and so here is why they needed to put a stronger thing like perborate along in order to guarantee the bleaching action using less quantity meant as "volume it keeps" of bleaching compound due to the already large consistency involved in the European TOL products formulas?
Percarbonate takes more space than perborate for what it does....
Perborate alone as additive is also sort of outlawed here unfortunately, still available imported from some other places "under the counter" but rare to be found.
In any ways...all you said was heard loud and clear here...
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-21:55]
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Sudsmaster...
You may have luck trying out some stuff for Hunter's laundry..they are claimed being scent killer and meant for that.
Well...the candy store/rotten fruit scent modern detergents have may also increase the chance to attract some preys...hunters should think about that.... we may have a swap...LOL
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-19:45]
You may have luck trying out some stuff for Hunter's laundry..they are claimed being scent killer and meant for that.
Well...the candy store/rotten fruit scent modern detergents have may also increase the chance to attract some preys...hunters should think about that.... we may have a swap...LOL
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-19:45]
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
I didn't mean to cancel the two responses...I am an idiot..
Robert is there a way you can recover them?
Robert is there a way you can recover them?
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Supersuds....scent suppressor don't exist..but..detergents...
You might be lucky trying out some detergents for Hunter's laundry, they are meant (or so claims) to be scent killer, important thing for hunters...
Actually...
With the candy store/rotten fruit scent modern detergents have, maybe they can even act to attract some preys...hunters should think about that...LOL
You might be lucky trying out some detergents for Hunter's laundry, they are meant (or so claims) to be scent killer, important thing for hunters...
Actually...
With the candy store/rotten fruit scent modern detergents have, maybe they can even act to attract some preys...hunters should think about that...LOL
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
nevermind
managed to recover them through the history..I clicked and it was saved! Wow! I didn't want to think to write that down again...
managed to recover them through the history..I clicked and it was saved! Wow! I didn't want to think to write that down again...
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Apparentlty the recovered one didn't send....can't find it anymore...
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-21:13]
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-21:13]
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Launderess...i think we got you well first time..
But we were speaking of cheap/low end U.S powders containing bleach which you said you couldn't think of.. and Mitch just listed some to you...
If we wanna speak about cheap detergents in Europe though , I could start with Italy listing you MSDS of the common cheap powder you find over here, offered both by RB and Henkel (we don't have Lever involved in laundry here) that doesn't contain perborate, TAED or any activators the same...just carbonate peroxide and many of them in pitiful quantities and or quality/saturation.
I came upon a few detergents from small manufacturers that just had perborate, stuff who kept the same formula of many moons ago, stuff that wouldn't sell well because would not do well in the average "below 60 degrees trend" washes of today....I hope for their sales they changed it now.
So to be even more clear..perhaps it was me saying "pretty much all" that confused us... I was speaking generally about P&G TOL or not, so including stuff like Gain who are not TOL indeed yet it includes the NOBS..so it was "moi" who perhaps gave birth to this misunderstanding? I apologize.
So...at least here activators in the cheap or BOL powders, forget most stores brand or Private labels, are not *that* common either....the only non-TOL powders I could find TAED in were ones from German discounts like LIDL , yet a large production meant for a large Europewide distribuition, actually they're known marks (just google formil, Almat, Tandil) so much that in some counties they've even been equiparated to stuff like Ariel..but actually not quite cheap (lidl's formil for example costs 8.99 as much as Dash box cost here)and not all formil version does..for ex the XXL box doesn't..anyway still not falling in the cheap BOL category...
Of course all the TOL and some of the MOL offerings (europewide speaking) does have taed but so is in the US with the P&G's "Nonano" thing (am sure can't spell it well) which now owns pretty much 60% or 70% of Laundry market in the US... P&G it's bigger there than here ...less competitors, hence kind of monopolize the market...
But here is my initial affermation, that in the US even though owned by one company you could find TAED or similar the same as here.
Here it's just that you have more different TOL offerings altoghterer from various countries but each one belonging to his own country, so better speak of different names, with different scents but from same manufacturers, and yes some more companies using taed in TOL than USA (P&G)), USA is huge but a country on it's own, Europe is an union of many with internal micro-economies belonging to each country...but for how many detergent/brands you find in each country, always TOL and expensive they remain, and choice may also reduce to be just few TOL offerings with Taed like it is in Italy, in any ways here we arrive to why I don't get the big deal about persil's white and cleaning boasting like if it were a thing americans never seen before... that's because I said that I found Tide, Gain to be even better for me in many aspects vs the persil not just about cleaning and whiteness, megaperls (german original) don't also have the damn perborate all people speaks about it allegedly has (see for example MSDS in reply 158) ..but that's a finding not a fact...and of course I get that a choice more is always welcome, especially if you don't like Tide or P&G for various reasons, say rinsing (which again, I can't quite share) or frothing whatever.
Also:
True that some TOL detergents with activators in Europe tend to contain Perborate along, say Persil and Dash/Ariel, but as far as I see it, detergents in Europe also include much more ingredients both involved in softening and surfactancy and typical formulas for low diluition vs a hybrid-combo (for both TL and FL) adrressed formula in the US, thus I question if that is because in europe it's left less space in the formulation for more of or "richer" percarbonate, and and so here is why they needed to put a stronger thing like perborate along in order to guarantee the bleaching action using less quantity meant as "volume it keeps" of bleaching compound due to the already large consistency involved in the European TOL products formulas?
Percarbonate takes more space than perborate for what it does....
Perborate alone as additive is also sort of outlawed here unfortunately, still available imported from some other places "under the counter" but rare to be found.
In any ways...all you said was heard loud and clear here...
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-22:48]
But we were speaking of cheap/low end U.S powders containing bleach which you said you couldn't think of.. and Mitch just listed some to you...
If we wanna speak about cheap detergents in Europe though , I could start with Italy listing you MSDS of the common cheap powder you find over here, offered both by RB and Henkel (we don't have Lever involved in laundry here) that doesn't contain perborate, TAED or any activators the same...just carbonate peroxide and many of them in pitiful quantities and or quality/saturation.
I came upon a few detergents from small manufacturers that just had perborate, stuff who kept the same formula of many moons ago, stuff that wouldn't sell well because would not do well in the average "below 60 degrees trend" washes of today....I hope for their sales they changed it now.
So to be even more clear..perhaps it was me saying "pretty much all" that confused us... I was speaking generally about P&G TOL or not, so including stuff like Gain who are not TOL indeed yet it includes the NOBS..so it was "moi" who perhaps gave birth to this misunderstanding? I apologize.
So...at least here activators in the cheap or BOL powders, forget most stores brand or Private labels, are not *that* common either....the only non-TOL powders I could find TAED in were ones from German discounts like LIDL , yet a large production meant for a large Europewide distribuition, actually they're known marks (just google formil, Almat, Tandil) so much that in some counties they've even been equiparated to stuff like Ariel..but actually not quite cheap (lidl's formil for example costs 8.99 as much as Dash box cost here)and not all formil version does..for ex the XXL box doesn't..anyway still not falling in the cheap BOL category...
Of course all the TOL and some of the MOL offerings (europewide speaking) does have taed but so is in the US with the P&G's "Nonano" thing (am sure can't spell it well) which now owns pretty much 60% or 70% of Laundry market in the US... P&G it's bigger there than here ...less competitors, hence kind of monopolize the market...
But here is my initial affermation, that in the US even though owned by one company you could find TAED or similar the same as here.
Here it's just that you have more different TOL offerings altoghterer from various countries but each one belonging to his own country, so better speak of different names, with different scents but from same manufacturers, and yes some more companies using taed in TOL than USA (P&G)), USA is huge but a country on it's own, Europe is an union of many with internal micro-economies belonging to each country...but for how many detergent/brands you find in each country, always TOL and expensive they remain, and choice may also reduce to be just few TOL offerings with Taed like it is in Italy, in any ways here we arrive to why I don't get the big deal about persil's white and cleaning boasting like if it were a thing americans never seen before... that's because I said that I found Tide, Gain to be even better for me in many aspects vs the persil not just about cleaning and whiteness, megaperls (german original) don't also have the damn perborate all people speaks about it allegedly has (see for example MSDS in reply 158) ..but that's a finding not a fact...and of course I get that a choice more is always welcome, especially if you don't like Tide or P&G for various reasons, say rinsing (which again, I can't quite share) or frothing whatever.
Also:
True that some TOL detergents with activators in Europe tend to contain Perborate along, say Persil and Dash/Ariel, but as far as I see it, detergents in Europe also include much more ingredients both involved in softening and surfactancy and typical formulas for low diluition vs a hybrid-combo (for both TL and FL) adrressed formula in the US, thus I question if that is because in europe it's left less space in the formulation for more of or "richer" percarbonate, and and so here is why they needed to put a stronger thing like perborate along in order to guarantee the bleaching action using less quantity meant as "volume it keeps" of bleaching compound due to the already large consistency involved in the European TOL products formulas?
Percarbonate takes more space than perborate for what it does....
Perborate alone as additive is also sort of outlawed here unfortunately, still available imported from some other places "under the counter" but rare to be found.
In any ways...all you said was heard loud and clear here...
[this post was last edited: 3/27/2015-22:48]
TAED vs NOBS
Have had the spelling backwards, sorry.
In any event TAED isn't used in the Untied States, and NOBS is confined to Japan and the United States. The patents long ran out on TAED which is how Henkel, Unilever and anyone else over there who wants to develop/use an activated bleaching system based on that chemical can. As stated P&G has managed to keep a lock on NOBS here in North America so won't see that activated oxygen bleaching system anywhere else but in P&G laundry or automatic dishwasher products.
IIRC NOBS works well with how Americans did washing until recently; at lower temperatures and using high dilution detergents, in short top loading washers that did not heat their own water. TAED OTOH is the opposite and was developed with the long profile washes commonly found in Europe. TAED was responsible for allowing Persil and others to advertise "turning down the dial" and housewives still able to achieve boil wash results but at lower wash temps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraacetylethylenediamine
These activators were necessary when sodium perborate was the main oxygen bleach.
Sodium perborate does not give good bleaching results in cool or even warm water. Well it will if you increase contact time. It does however really get going at temps of 120F or even >140F; boil washing. The original Persil worked so well because wash was boiled either in a pot or by machine. Biz, Oxydol and even the original Tide with Bleach all contained sodium perborate.
Have had the spelling backwards, sorry.
In any event TAED isn't used in the Untied States, and NOBS is confined to Japan and the United States. The patents long ran out on TAED which is how Henkel, Unilever and anyone else over there who wants to develop/use an activated bleaching system based on that chemical can. As stated P&G has managed to keep a lock on NOBS here in North America so won't see that activated oxygen bleaching system anywhere else but in P&G laundry or automatic dishwasher products.
IIRC NOBS works well with how Americans did washing until recently; at lower temperatures and using high dilution detergents, in short top loading washers that did not heat their own water. TAED OTOH is the opposite and was developed with the long profile washes commonly found in Europe. TAED was responsible for allowing Persil and others to advertise "turning down the dial" and housewives still able to achieve boil wash results but at lower wash temps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraacetylethylenediamine
These activators were necessary when sodium perborate was the main oxygen bleach.
Sodium perborate does not give good bleaching results in cool or even warm water. Well it will if you increase contact time. It does however really get going at temps of 120F or even >140F; boil washing. The original Persil worked so well because wash was boiled either in a pot or by machine. Biz, Oxydol and even the original Tide with Bleach all contained sodium perborate.
I didn't make the post about scent suppressors, Freddie; it was sudsmaster, but I did checkrate it! 
There's an easy enough solution for the oxygen bleach thingie.
Just get some Oxyclean and add some to the wash. It should activate quite well at warm temps, maybe even at tempered cold (which I rarely use and don't recommend). Oxyclean is mainly sodium percarbonate, which activates at lower temps than sodium perborate.
Some US detergents even include Oxyclean in their formulations. Sears Ultra Plus had an Oxyclean formulation for a while; it cleans very well, doesn't oversuds in a Miele, and seems to have fairly good bleaching action. It also seemed to be more gentle on fabrics than most powders (leaving them softer). Unfortunately I haven't seen any Sears Ultra Plus with Oxyclean for a while now.
Here's the Wiki entry on NOBS:
<blockquote>
Sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate (NOBS) is an important component of laundry detergents and bleaches. It is known as a bleach activator for active oxygen sources, allowing formulas containing hydrogen peroxide releasing chemicals (specifically sodium perborate, sodium percarbonate, sodium perphosphate, sodium persulfate, and urea peroxide to effect bleaching at lower temperatures.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[1]</sup> NOBS was developed by Procter & Gamble in 1983<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[2]</sup> and was first used in American laundry detergents in 1988.<sup id="cite_ref-Grime_3-0" class="reference">[3]</sup> NOBS is the main bleach activator used in the U.S.A. and Japan.<sup id="cite_ref-Hirschen_4-0" class="reference">[4]</sup> Compared to TAED, which is the predominant bleach activator used in Europe, NOBS is efficient at much lower temperatures. At 20 °C NOBS is 100 times more soluble than TAED in water.<sup id="cite_ref-Reinhardt1_5-0" class="reference">[5]</sup> When attacked by the perhydroxyl anion (from hydrogen peroxide), NOBS forms the peroxy acid peroxynonanoic acid and releases the leaving group sodium 4-hydroxybenzene sulfonate, which is an inert by-product.
</blockquote>
Just get some Oxyclean and add some to the wash. It should activate quite well at warm temps, maybe even at tempered cold (which I rarely use and don't recommend). Oxyclean is mainly sodium percarbonate, which activates at lower temps than sodium perborate.
Some US detergents even include Oxyclean in their formulations. Sears Ultra Plus had an Oxyclean formulation for a while; it cleans very well, doesn't oversuds in a Miele, and seems to have fairly good bleaching action. It also seemed to be more gentle on fabrics than most powders (leaving them softer). Unfortunately I haven't seen any Sears Ultra Plus with Oxyclean for a while now.
Here's the Wiki entry on NOBS:
<blockquote>
Sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate (NOBS) is an important component of laundry detergents and bleaches. It is known as a bleach activator for active oxygen sources, allowing formulas containing hydrogen peroxide releasing chemicals (specifically sodium perborate, sodium percarbonate, sodium perphosphate, sodium persulfate, and urea peroxide to effect bleaching at lower temperatures.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[1]</sup> NOBS was developed by Procter & Gamble in 1983<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[2]</sup> and was first used in American laundry detergents in 1988.<sup id="cite_ref-Grime_3-0" class="reference">[3]</sup> NOBS is the main bleach activator used in the U.S.A. and Japan.<sup id="cite_ref-Hirschen_4-0" class="reference">[4]</sup> Compared to TAED, which is the predominant bleach activator used in Europe, NOBS is efficient at much lower temperatures. At 20 °C NOBS is 100 times more soluble than TAED in water.<sup id="cite_ref-Reinhardt1_5-0" class="reference">[5]</sup> When attacked by the perhydroxyl anion (from hydrogen peroxide), NOBS forms the peroxy acid peroxynonanoic acid and releases the leaving group sodium 4-hydroxybenzene sulfonate, which is an inert by-product.
</blockquote>
