Positive news about gay marriage

[foraloysius]

I've been really flabbergasted by this comment (to: "No straight man has ever been fired from a job because he's straight."):

"Not true. Some guy caught porking his secretary in the office supply closet will most likely find himself on the outside, looking in".

If you can't make the difference between losing a job because of sexual orientation or because of having no decency you certainly lack sense of judgement. In the many years I have been active in the gay movement such things were always a sign of selfhatredness. You're not a fighter, you're a looser. Move over, we have a battle to win!

 

[petek]

Lawd I'm going back to Vacuumland where serenity reigns supreme and the unicorns graze on the dewey clover in a field awash in the glow from a colorful rainbow, the birds chirping and the bunnies hopping amidst all the happy campers. LOL

 

[andrewinorlando]

Louis -

That is, indeed, a very, very good point.

 

[oldhouseman]

Yes Jeff

indeed you are correct. The pentateuch -or first 5 books of the bible - are believed to be much older than chrisianity. Though it is not certain whether the word originally was an adjective, qualifying the omitted noun biblos, or a substantive, its literal meaning "five cases" appears to refer to the sheaths or boxes in which the separate rolls or volumes were kept.

At what precise time the first part of the Bible was divided into five books is a question not yet finally settled. And may never be. Some regard the division as antedating the Septuagint translation; others attribute it to the authors of current translations. Which, of course, leads me to ask many questions regarding those translations and possible changes that were made to suite viwes of the day. The contents of the Pentateuch are partly of an historical, partly of a legal character I would venture to guess. But christian tradition does not necessarily maintain that Moses wrote every letter of the Pentateuch as it is today, and that the work has come down to us in an absolutely unchanged form. I believe some of the so called "laws" that were written could have been reactionary to known greek and roman, or other cultural, practices.

My error, I thought you were referring only to the time period concerning the christian church.

Andrew, I knew a couple (neighbors) that argued and fought quiet a bit. It was their strange form of foreplay. And they were loud!

 

[oldhouseman]

I ran the line

"take me as I am or tell me to walk" past several people this afternoon. Not giving the source (this website) of course.

Hands down, everybody thought it was a great idea for a C/W song!

I hope Scott hasn't walked yet, we need more lines for the song.

 

[rp2813]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the biggest flaming (more like a bonfire) example of what he so loathes abour gay culture can in fact be found in Oxy's own mirror?

 

[andrewinorlando]

Would that be an Oxy-moron? Oh that's terrible, I shouldn't even think things like that. It's simply not nice, or Christian!

 

[jeffg]

Guys, this is degrading into a gang bang. First rule of any online discussion is to remember a human being is sitting behind every keyboard. Not one of us would know what we thought unless other people disagreed with us.

The view Scott has toward this issue is moreless a traditional christian one, and a common one even in our community. IMO what he doesn't realize is that we've taken the full brunt of "backlash" these last 10-15 years, and our battle to become full partners in the American dream is nearing its end. 20 or 30 years from now all of this is going to seem so freaking silly.

 

[lightedcontrols]

My Dear Robert...

After much thought I have decided to walk with Scott on this one. Please remove me, my profile, and photos from the site. Obviously my kind (Christian) is not wanted around here. Thanks, Mark Lightedcontrols signing off.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Jeff -

But that is the problem - it's a common view, and nothing can set us back further than just that type of thinking, especially from our own folks. I realize it's more widespread than any of us realizes, and that gay self-loathing is a very, very real problem and condition (I was "married" to one for 2.5 years). Not that there is anything wrong with charitible, Christian (or Jewish or Muslim, etc., etc.) thoughts and love...nothing at all. We need much more of that.

I really hope you're right about this, but I also hope we don't have to wait for another 20-30 years. It's been long enough, and we ain't getting any younger, you know!!

 

[rp2813]

Mark's Request

I am sad to see Mark go. I am 100% confident of the following: He is not the type of person who subscribes to the hate that the noisiest christianists spew in the direction of the gay community. He is not one of those sub-humans who picket at funerals for victims of deadly gay bashing. He is NOT the kind of person who wishes any ill will on anyone who was doled out a genetic composition that causes them to be attracted to the same sex. I presume his understanding would be that his God made us this way, and for a reason that no one has yet to determine. Certainly it was for more than to create a thriving entertainment industry. Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. It occurs in animals as well, and they sure don't have any concept of straight or gay, they just act the way they are genetically programmed to act.

I think it's sad that Scott's inflamatory attitude and surgical strikes against other posters has caused a backlash of generalizations that Mark could no longer hang with.

It seems this happens every June, and this year we have a California Supreme Court decision to add to the mix. This could blow over, or it could be a topic on this board until the November election when everything that has been gained could be nullified. But when discussions like this cause good people like Mark to feel unwelcome, that's when it strikes me that things have gone too far.

Robert, maybe you can change Mark's mind. As stated, I'm a fallen Catholic and don't buy into organized religion at all, but I am part of a tiny minority in this country and most U.S. citizens are people of faith. We can co-exist with them fine. It's the radicals on both sides that need to be kept in check. I think that's what Scott is basically saying in his own venomous style, which is why a lot of us have missed his point. It's all in the delivery, and Scott's unfortunately sucks in a very big way.

 

[rickr]

Yes it does. While I do not want to be a part of ANY church, I still respect those that do. I have many friends and family members that are christian. It is those like Oxy that turned me off being christian. The self defeating, "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of talk really turns me off.
Oxy is a trouble maker and pot stirrer, and hurls out insults at anyone that does not agree with the narrow little road he chooses to follow. He has insulted me, has insulted Venus Wilder, and has also been very insulting to Robert. These are the reasons that I do not like Oxy, not because he is christain.

Mark, I really hope you do not leave, as I like you, and you always add something postive to add to our group. You treat others with respect, and add to the fun here. It makes no difference what faith you are to us. It's really about who you are that matters. I say this from my heart Mark.

 

[rp2813]

I think we are all in agreement about who is the problem here, and it is NOT Mark. Mark has always been nothing short of a complete gentleman. Let the shit disturber take a long walk on a short pier, but Mark should not have been made to feel unwelcome.

 

[westyslantfront]

I would be very sorry to see Mark or anyone leave the club.
We are a large and very diverse group. Invariably, there will be numerous differences of opinions. In any event, each and every person is entitled to their opinion and each and every person must respect one another. I have contacted Mark and told him that I hope he will reconsider and remain with us.

I am not embarrassed to say that I am a church going Episcopalian. The members of the congregation are well aware that I am gay and I am warmly received and respected by EVERYONE in my parish. In the Episcopal Church, we have women priests and bishops and also gay priests and a gay bishop in
New Hampshire. Sure there is some dissention but I grew up with
"Unity Through Diversity" and that is celebrating and respecting people for their differences and similarities.
I am not quite sure I understand the definition of the
term "Christianist" and would sure appreciate a response as to the definition of that term.
We are here to share our enjoyment of washing machines, dishwashers, and other appliances, vintage and new. I hope that we will go forward with a mutual respect for one another.
Anyone who has been to a Tucson wash in has had a good time.
We enjoyed sharing our collections with other club members who came and we will always continue to welcome club members and enjoy sharing our collections with anyone who comes here.
I am grateful for automaticwasher.org because it is a place that I can share my love of washing machines with other people who share my interest. I look forward to seeing automaticwasher.org grow as new members discover that there are other people out there who share their interest. The person's politics or religious views are of no importance to me. I am just glad to share our common interest together.

Ross

 

[westyslantfront]

I further wish to add that I am very happy to discuss washing machines, dishwashers, or vacuum cleaners, however, I will not discuss politics or who I wish to vote for. I will continue to show respect to anyone who shares my interest in washers, dishwashers, etc.
Life is too short for all the anger and bitterness. There is much more fun to be had enjoying our washers, dishwashers, vacuums, etc.

Ross

 

[oldhouseman]

I would

not remove Marks profile as he suggested. Perhaps, in time, he will return. Surely he knows he is welcome here. I don't think this site rejects anybody based on their faith. Any rejections made are of intolerant mean spirited actions as far as I have seen.

I have a sister-inlaw that claims to be a christian. She exibits every negative hateful attitude toward anybody she deems "not worthy". I avoid her completely. I have an Aunt who is very active in her baptist church. She exibits every wonderful trait that one would hope to find in a true christian. My sister-inlaw deems her not a real christian because she has gay friends and did charity work with aids patients back in the 80's and 90's. Who is the real christian there? There is no doubt who it is.

I would hate to see Mark go. But that is his choice. I hope he at least keeps watch on the site and will eventually chime in again to share his thoughts with us.

We are guests in Robert's home in a way. I would never attend as a guest in someone's home and be disrespectful to the host. It simply is not done. Robert has provided us with a wonderful platform for discussion and the chance to share a wonderful hobby. I am very grateful to him for his gift to us all.

We are still in America I see -where we can talk, discuss, argue and disagree. And nobody gets killed or put in jail for having a difference of opinion.

Thank you Robert for all you have provided us here at AW. I hope this thread does continue through the summer so we can track the progress of gay marriage and give best wishes to those becoming officially wed.

...take me as I am or tell me to walk...I'm still laughing my butt off over that line.

 

[gansky1]

I really don't care much for any religion, reasoning and critical thinking combined with years of research and study have brought me to an agnostic point in my life. I'm not opposed to anyone having their own beliefs as long as they don't force them on others and actually abide by and live as a good example of their belief system. It's hypocritical to talk about kindness, charity, forgiveness and repentance if you are not able to actually practice those values. Don't put verses from scripture in posts, emails, christmas letters, etc. if people are so far away from living those values that it makes them seem ridiculous. I don't have time for the hypocrisy and lies, and while sometimes these can be inspirational for some, they may seem silly and flighty to others. That's just the way people are and it's easier to let it go, smile to ourselves and live and let live.

Now, wasn't this all about having a wedding celebration? Look how happy these people are. I'll bet this joy and happiness will last far beyond any further votes or referendums that may come along!

 

[andrewinorlando]

Ross - that is very beautifully put, and you are a shining example of what is good and right in the Christian church. You don't deny who you are to keep from offending anyone, but you don't flaunt your sexuality either. Just a normal man doing what he feels he was called to do. No bigotry, loathing, hatred of any kind...just Christian charity and love. And a complete gentleman, to boot!!

 

[westyslantfront]

Hi Andrew. Thank you for your kind words. I hope that
automaticwasher.org will move forward. Many people are quite amazed at my interest in washers. It started when I was a young boy who was fascinated watching the clothes go round and round.
I prefered to hang out at the laundromat down the road than play ball with the boys. Here I am at age 56 and I still enjoy watching the clothes go round and round in the tub.

Ross

 

[Unimatic1140]

Ahhhhh peace and calm has once again settled down over the Discuss-o-Mat. YAY.

Mark please don't go, your kind is totally WANTED here. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do again apologize for anything I said that might have offended you. It wouldn't be the same here without you. If you really, really, really want me to delete you you're gonna have to call or email me personally and talk about it. When I delete a profile, pictures, account, etc. I simply drag them into the recycle bin on the server. But your stuff I would create a special Folder on the web server called MEMBERS_WHO_WE_WANT_TO_COME_BACK. I wouldn't ever be able to bring myself to drag your stuff to the recycle bin.

Now as for business at hand, I've blocked Oxy's IP address and account from posting. Unfortunately this is not the first time I've done this to him, its been a few years since the last time I did this to him. I want to let things settle down and get everything back on track.

I was looking forwarded to posting our annual Happy Gay Pride thread next week. Its an AW Super Forum tradition, but this year I think I'm gonna post it with some basic ground rules that I will iron out over the course of the next week.

Dig in...