Powder vs. liquid detergent

[whirlpolf]

@frigilux

Tri-Zyme, I used it myself, it is not an equivalent to those oxy products. Rather their "Powdered Fabric Bleach" stuff would be, that is their oxygen producing formula.

Nevertheless, I love Tri-Zyme but I miss the old SA8 products. The current "Legacy of Clean" detergents in their froglike green Playmobile or moist-nappy boxes, they are just not the same :-(

 

[mark_wpduet]

Bleach

For FL washers, (at least mine) the bleach dispenser holds a very small amount of bleach...and it is dispensed in the rinse cycle. There is NO WAY I can see never using liquid bleach......but a little of it goes a L O N G way...I think it really helps keep machine clean inside along with other ways to care for your machine.

I use the sanitary cycle, powder, bleach, and vinegar for rinse in all my white's....

 

[whitetub]

I like to use powder detergent, but the HE versions available here, in Canada, are pretty limited when it comes to powders (Tide, Gain and Sunlight come to mind). All of them are perfumed. I like using unscented detergents, dye free, and basically all of them are in liquid form. I have been using the Up and Up brand, from Target, and it's pretty good. Perfume free, dye free.
The selection of liquids is probably 5 times bigger than the powder selection.
I used to get Persil with oxy bleach, at a Lebanese supermarket (ADONIS), and it was about 10$ for a big box. I loved it. Cleaned my whites so well, no suds, but with a nice clean scent. Now, they don't carry it anymore, since that chain of supermarket was bought by a bigger, more corporate supermarket chain.

An appliance dealer sells Persil, right next to that supermarket, but it's around 45$ a box.
So I have been using liquids now for a while. I wash in hot water, sometimes I even add a kettle of boiling hot water in my whites. I use oxy-bleach in powder with the whites.

My machine is 3 years old, and still smells clean. I leave the door open at all times.

 

[miele_ge]

Persil is the way to go if you have a front loader (IMHO)...

The powder that is....

 

Ryan,

 

If you calculate the cost per load using the # of loads on the box, it does seem very expensive. However, in my 5Kg Miele machine, I only use about 1/8 cup for average loads and maybe 1/8 to 1/4 cup (or slightly more) for really dirty loads. Not sure about the cost per load, but we do a lot of laundry, and the Persil seems to last. Also, between the Miele and the Persil, I need no other laundry additives and everything comes out spotless. If you try Persil, you might find you don't need the Oxy since Persil already has it in the Universal formula and you might even be able to ditch the LCB too.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Alan

 

[frontloaderfan]

Alan:
I have thought I would not need the Oxyclean (also not cheap) with Persil. When I lived in Germany, I never used LCB either, as it is fairly unknown over there. I remember everything used to come out fresh-smelling and very clean and white. About the only additive I would add other than Persil or Frosch powder is Calgon water softener for the heating element in my Miele. Not sure if that actually helped, but I felt better putting it in. Since my Frigidaire doesn't have a heater, there's no need to add anything else except maybe a little FS once in a while.

 

[nickuk]

powder vs liquid

I still find that a good bio liquid plus an oxy bleach in powder form (when needed) used together gives better all round results than with a fully loaded powder.

Powder doesn't do as well on oily / greasy stains (cuff marks / mayonnaise etc) as liquid.

Just my findings from running a large family with fairly soiled laundry.

I use mainly hot and warm washes and also clean the machine regularly with descaler, bleach and stuff. The machine is clean. Problems arise when people (who don't know as much as us use liquid with cold water and huge, soiled loads all the time - yuck. Yep, I know of several machines with BLACK door seals (heaven only knows what's going on right inside the machine). The program dials usually are stuck firmly on `quick wash' and a bottle of some chav scented Surf nearby.

 

[mayguy]

I've been used Norwex Powdered for 3 years, and love it..  It don't have any perfume, and only use 2-3tsp per load.

 

I use vinegar as my fabric softener, and Oxy along w/ liquid bluing for my whites.

 

 

[mich]

Actually, YES.

Hydrogen Peroxide is an Acid. It might be a "weak" acid, but, it is a ACID. 

 

Acids like Vinegar, Ammonia, or any Acid, should never be mixed with Chlorine for one simple reason. Chlorine is a GAS, YES, IT'S A GAS. It's contained in a solution, making it "safer" for us to touch and use, but, when mixed with an ACID, like Ammonia, or in our case, Hydrogen Peroxide, that GAS can be released.

 

Don't say it can't. IT CAN, and it HAS before. It might take a lot, to make it happen, but is it honestly worth the risk?

 

Chlorine, in General, is a very nasty chemical. One does have to remember, it's original purpose wasn't to get things White, or Clean, it was used by Hitler to kill Soliders. In just one spray of Chlorine, or Mustard Gas, you could die in minutes. IT WAS EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE AT SUFFOCATING, AND KILLING HUMANS. 

 

If you know me, or have followed me at all. You do know, I'm far from some "Eco-Warrior", "Tree Hugger", or, "Chemicals are Bad" kinda person, but I'm serious about this. This is dangerous, and I'd be very upset if I heard some story, about a fellow member getting sick, or worse from doing some combination. I do care about the people here, and I wouldn't stress this at all, if I didn't care. I've lost people in my life, from similar situations, and I don't wanna go through that again. Just, be careful, don't mix chemicals guys, it's not a good thing. 

 

 

[iheartmaytag]

Mustard gas was used during WWI, Hitler was not in that war.

Chlorine is a powerful oxidizer, and if used incorrectly can be dangerous.

Now if you really want to see a smoke cloud, mix bleach and brake fluid.

 

[mwb]

The sky is NOT falling...Repeat, the sky is NOT falling

Actually Mich, hydrogen peroxide is a base, not an acid. I'm sure everyone appreciates your concern; however in this case it's simply without merit.

FYI: Detergent manufacturers who tout terms like "colorguard" utilize additives that break down into simple hydrogen peroxide to neutralize chlorine that's found in most municipal water supplies. This chlorine can theoretically over time, fade bright colors.

 

[aamassther]

I was curious about those statements as well. Not being a chemist, I wiki'd H2O2, chlorine bleach and chlorine. Without going into lots of detail. Mich is partially correct. H2O2 is a weak acid with a pH of 6.2 and considered a strong oxidiser.
From the info I found, mixing these two substances, at higher and purer concentrations than we use in the home, did indeed result in toxic gases being produced. Though not mustard. Chlorine, from mustard's wiki entry, has been used to neutralise mustard poisoning. From opinions on the web and the wiki entry's, the resulting gases were chlorine or oxygen, most likely chlorine. Neither of which is good for us to breathe in concentration.
When you read the chemistry of both, it makes more sense that at the low concentrations we use in the home, they cancel each other out in the wash water, but shouldn't be mixed in purer forms. Much like mixing ammonia and LCB vs. peeing in the toilet when a bleach cleaner is in it.
Just thought I would pass along what I found.
[this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-10:57]

 

[mwb]

Todd you are correct. My apologies to Mich. Hydrogen peroxide is indeed a weak acid. I was typing from memory which is not always the wisest thing to do. Obviously, peroxide solutions would have to be mildly acidic in order to neutralize chlorine. Duh!

 

[frontloaderfan]

Okay, so the case of Persil got here today. I just want to be sure I'm dosing it correctly. The chart says for heavy soil and in hard water (which Maine definitely has) I should be using 275 ml of detergent. What?

I learned baking in Germany, where Persil is made, and we had to use the metric system, which I still use for baking, but in my book, milliliters are for liquid measures, grams are for dry measure. So if Persil is a powder, shouldn't it be weighed in grams?

There is a conversion chart on the side of the box, which says 155 ml is equal to 95 grams. So, by way of a Dreisatz (sorry, I don't know what this is called in English), I figured: 275*95/155=168.5 or 170 grams rounded off. I got out the kitchen scale and weighed 170 g. of Persil, which was about 1 1/2 cups, which did not even fit in the detergent dispenser. Is this right or am I just a stupid American? Hilfe![this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-14:40]

 

[aamassther]

Detergent measures on the Persil pkts are volume not weight. I use about 60-120 cc/ml of the powder and 45-65cc/ml of the megaperls. We had mod hard water in Michigan and now very soft mountain water here in NC. I use the same amts here.
When I lived in Portland our water was quite soft, the origin was Sebago Lake. I'm surprised your water up Sanford way is that much harder since you're not that far south from Portland. You on well water?
HTH, Todd

 

[hoover1100]

Persil dose

That sounds about the right amount, these days we dose powder by volume (ml) instead of weight (grammes) 170g seems a pretty normal amount, if ou can get hold of a measuring jug with ml on it it might make it easier than having to covert the dose.

Nothing will leave your clothes cleaner than a good heavy soil dose of a premium biological European bleach containing detergent!

Matt

 

[strongenough78]

1.5 cups? That must be for a top load machine.

 

[frontloaderfan]

Water..

Hey Todd, that helps a little. Actually, Sanford has "gravel filled wells" around York county and the water company said we have 7 grains (whatever that is) and upwards. I noticed the faucets scale up fairly quickly as well. So by volume, you mean I just get out my measuring cup and measure out 275 ml on the metric side?
So needless to say, I probably used about three times what I should have...sigh...

I guess if I were smart, I would have seen that there are 475g in the box, which says it yields 5 washes, ergo 95g per wash on the average...

After having used American laundry detergents for the last 8 years, I must say I am impressed. I had forgotten how clean Persil smells. Not overpowering, just clean. Even though I probably overdosed this time, it rinsed away cleanly too, not like Tide, which sticks around for the next wash, even when I use the tabs.

I think I'll skip the FS on the next wash. The smell of Downy is downright gaudy compared with the modest scent of Persil...[this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-15:08]

 

[aamassther]

7 grains is in line with the water I was used to in Michigan.
Yes, you're correct use a common measuring cup. Though 275 ml (approx. 1-1/4c)is a lot of powder
for on load one load. I get great results with less than half
that for a heavy soiled load in my Frigidaire Affinity. With the European stuff
there's a learning curve to get the right amounts. The cost is a big incentive
to be frugal.

 

[frontloaderfan]

So you and I even have the same machine. How cool! No, it was not cheap. I got eight boxes of 475g each for $29.00 plus shipping, but now I will most likely be able to skip the Oxyclean (and possibly FS. Don't want to ruin that beautiful scent!).

 

[aamassther]

I agree, with being able to cut down on the amount used and not needing additives,
makes the cost a little more agreeable.
The price you paid is lower than I've paid.
It is cool we even have the same machines! I like mine, just wish the heater would
work in all cycles