Presenting the In-Sink-Erator Classic Supreme Dishwasher

[stevet]

Missing in Action!

Brent, the Quick Glass option is missing from your machine because it is a KDS21 not a 22. The 22 had the extra cycle added and also has 8 buttons, not seven.

Mechanically, they are identical machines just cycle differences

 

[stevet]

Missing in Action!

Brent, the Quick Glass option is missing from your machine because it is a KDS21 not a 22. The 22 had the extra cycle added and also has 8 buttons, not seven.

Mechanically, they are identical machines just cycle differences
If the data plate says it's a 22, then someone changed out the door, or control panel due to a bad timer or other component that may no longer be available.

 

[a440]

Please Wait -- Idiot Light

I think the point of it was for "Idiots" that opened the dishwasher right after pressing cancel. Then starting a new cycle with the timer now being in the middle of a rinse, dry or wherever it stopped when they opened the door.
How funny for the "Idiot" that cancels, (and doesn't please wait) puts in a ton of nasty dishes, presses the new cycle and it starts at the beginning of a heated dry. Blah!
Dumb Blond: "Honey! I just figured out our dishwasher can also be a convection oven"!

 

[a440]

Thanks Steve!

My eyes are failing me.
I guess it being a 21 is also the reason for the smaller Hobart Style Filter system / pump.

 

[a440]

Oh.... Steve

Did you post at one time how to take the flow restriction part out? I remember someone posting pictures but could not remember if it was you.
Brent

 

[stevet]

Lights and sights!

I remember calling the "please wait" light a "gimmick" and was promptly chastised by a member here who happens to work at whirlpool and was told that they added the please wait light because there was a portion of the cycle where the lights go out completely so people were thinking either it was finished advancing or the machine stopped working. My Monterey 21 does that and I could see why someone would think something was wrong. It does between the final drain and dry cycles for nearly a minute while it drained and also if you hit the cancel button. So I guess it made some sense to change it to "please wait."

And the pumps were the same on the 21 and 22 machines. The 23 got the whirlpool powermodule pump which is not backwards compatible with the 21 and 22's. It has a smaller diameter where the pump goes down thru the sump. I learned that the hard way once many years ago!

And as far as the flow washer goes, I never posted any pictures, but have mentioned it a few times in various threads.

The flow washers are located eiter in the front of the valve behind the strainer screen,held in by a plastic retainer or they were located at the end of the valve before the outlet where the fill hose attaches. If it is there, you need to disassemble the coils and diapraghms and then you will see the washer that would need to be removed.
Just remember, your machine will fill until the float stops it and if you open and close the door really fast and hit the cycle button when it is that full, it may blow water out the bottom of the door.

 

[peteski50]

ISE / Kitchenaid!

The best built dishwashers ever made for the home in my openion. In some ways I liked the ISE's water heating system better - (right to the point) 140 in the main wash and you can just turn it off. I didn't agree with KA stand still water heating at the start it was more of a waste!
Peter

 

[appnut]

I didn't agree with KA stand still water heating at the

Peter, that sequence was unique only to Superba type models--the pause, heat, then circulate. And this puase was a thermostatically controlled pause. I believe the 20 or 21 series lower models also paused for water heating, but it wasn't thermostatically held. All the other models in the KA from the WP prdouced 21-23 series line just heated the water while water was being circulated. I only remember Superba model advertising mentioning something about assured temp water heating. And as far as I was concerned, anything but a Superba was a comedown and compromise in KA line. That pause/heat sequence was many of the reassons why I WOULDN'T have a KitchenAid dishwasher, especially when I bought my GE GSD1200 in 1987. I knew that's why GE did such a superior job cleaning because it kept circulating those powerful jets of water. I think they would have been able to handle far heavier soil if they'd continued circulating wter while pausing to heat. Tomturbomatic has made similar comments about water cirulation and heating. Andrew in Orlando had similar comments about his KDS21 (I think that model series), plus the main wash phase wasn't as long as on the 22 he thought. And John lefever (combo52) also states the same as to why a WP PowerClean will clean far better than a KA. If you still have something with dirt on it in one of those after useing the PowerScrub cycle (thermostatic heat hold for Prewash (which could last for 30 to 45 minutes) plus the main wash heat and final rinse, then you needed it to be atomically blasted off the surface of what was dirty. It was a similar reasson why I didn't chose a Maytag reverserack in 1987, because their Sani-Scrub option merely turned on the heater throughout the circulation periods, but never a thermostatically held point in the cycle. And their TOL machine only paused for the heat for the SaniRinse--final rinse. A perfect KA would have been something like an 18 series with thermostatically held heat pauses while circulating during the main wash and final rinse. On the Superba Soak'n'Scrub cycles, the heater continued to heat the waterr during the "soak" periods, which improved results over the Imperiod model, which didn't continue to heat the water why paused (Gansky told me that). I also felt it was kinda stupid to have those pause periods during the S'n'S cycle--heavy soil expected should have always had water circulating.

 

[rp2813]

I think the idea of allowing contents to "soak" in a dishwasher is ridiculous. The more water you have shooting around for more of the time, the better.

 

[toploader55]

Yes, But...

To me it makes sense.

You pump the water and mix the detergent. Then you let the detergent work. Then the heating starts which to me makes a very humid condition that rehydrates the detergent. Then Wash for a few minutes and then re-heat. I think that letting the detergent residue "set" upon the contents, really makes sense. Set and Soak. Then 3 Prewashes, Main Wash, 3 Rinses, I have never been disappointed in any KDS 18,19, or 20 Cycle.

Just my expierience

 

[rp2813]

Eddie, that sounds similar to the steam options on the Thermador. From that standpoint I can see the value in that function, although even with steam selected the Thermador couldn't handle some of the tougher jobs I threw at it. Water is fairly hard here and I think that has a lot to do with it.

 

[combo52]

CIRCULATING VERSES DAMP DISHES

I see little good in so called soak cycles on dishwashers, even when soak dishes in the sink they are immersed in water. It does little good to let dishes sit in a damp condition with a thin film of detergent and water on them. In order to keep desolving the food soil the dried food spots need constant replenishment from the water and detergent. If you are trying to clean really dirty dishes it works much better to circulating, filtering and heating the water I have the side by side proof i my kitchen with the 1987 WP PC DW and the KDSS-20 to say nothing of the messy filter in the KA. Some times on the KA when a wash the blender container and a half dozen or more glasses after I have made Fruit smoothies the wash filter will clog almost instantly and if I don't catch it and stop and clean it I will have to wash the whole load over after cleaning the filter.

 

[rp2813]

Sequence of Action on Normal Wash Cycle

I remained within earshot of the Supreme tonight for the duration of a Normal Wash cycle.  Here is the sequence of events:

 

Pre-Wash (or rinse if open detergent cup was not filled)

Purge

Rinse

Main Wash

Purge

Rinse

Dry (forced air starts up a few minutes into the Dry sequence)

 

I was under the impression that KA machines only did one purge after the main wash.  That's how it was with my KUDI-21.  Are two purges unique to ISE and/or the 22 series?   I also noticed that it seemed to fill less for purge than my KUDI-21 did.  I haven't tried the Pots/Pans cycle yet, but can't imagine that it would include a third purge.

 

 

[a440]

Very cool!

Thanks for the report Ralph.
Keep us in formed if you decide to take the fill restriction out. I would be interested to find out how much of a fill you get during the purge sequence.

A question for John concerning the 18 and such. I have never had an issue with the filter plugging as much with debris as you state. Just curious however.....
If you were to remove the filter from the 18's on....and be careful of what you loaded...would the soft disposer be able to take care of the issue you are having with your smoothies and such? Rice, small seeds, etc. I have never had an issue with a dirty filter screen. I do take the filter out once a month and clean it, but it is never gunk or anything. Just wondering if the 18's and on would just mulch the soft stuff and not get stuck int he "strainer filter".

Brent

 

[magic clean]

Everyone has

an opinion. LOL, here is mine ....if it aint broke, don't fix it. Ralph, you've got a really cool dishwasher. If your dishwashing results are to your liking, I would not fiddle with the water valve in an attempt to obtain a deeper purge fill. Keep using good detergent and rinse aid. Since you have hard water, run a maintainence cycle with a citric acid dishwasher cleaner from time to time to keep things free of mineral scale etc.

Getting back to a deep fill "purge"; the subsequent drain time may not be long enough to pump out the additional water. The purge is meant to briefly / quickly flush the sump of residual wash water and lightly spray the dishload; diluting & prerinsing prior to the final rinse.

LP

 

[combo52]

DISHWASHER FILTERS

Hi Brent I don't think I would dare to remove the filter from my KDSS-20 as I am sure at the least the top rack spray arm would quickly clog. There is not [ by design ] very much water force in the top arm and they are impossible to clean as they are very flat. Also there is no soft food disposer in the 18-20 series machines for the recirculating water the drain impeller does break up some soft food as the water leaves the machine but it is not the same as many other machines with disposers. The filter clogging is funny usually I can wash 5 or more loads without anytime more than minimal buildup on it. But some times the amount of particles in the water can quickly overwhelm it and it clogs. Ralph I agree with L P in Florida I would not remove the flow restrictor from any dishwasher, it would likely make the machine leak at times, it would double the water consumption of the machine and it would make hard water problems worse as you would have twice as much hard water for the detergent to deal with.

 

[rp2813]

Well, what I noticed about the purge on this machine is that I didn't hear anything that sounded like even a small amount of water was being sent through the wash arm(s), so I don't think the dishload is getting even lightly sprayed.

 

I am indeed happy with the results so for now so won't be taking any action with regard to the restrictor, but at some point it might be interesting just to see how much difference it makes.

 

[appnut]

I didn't hear anything that sounded like even a small am

it's there.  it's doing its thing the way it was intended.  Water is being squirted although you don't realize it because of the insulation and thick porcelain tub. 

 

[combo52]

KA DW PURGES

The purge is to clean out the sump it is not designed to spray the dishes at all. Ralph do be certain that your machine is getting enough water, I always replace the fill valve when I recondition an old DW that I intend to use. Buy the far most common problem we see with old inlet valves is that they don't allow the full water flow as they age.

 

[appnut]

Buy far the most common problem we see with old inlet valve

I did that with my old 1987 GSD1200 PotScrubber.  I had the valve replaced  about 9 or 10 years into its use.  I was going to have to do it again in about a year or so if I hadn't gotten the new Kenmore Elite TT because I could tell sometimes it wawsn't quite getting its full compliment of water on the fills.