Question about 1.6 gal. toilets

[gansky1]

When we bought this house in 98, there was an Eljier squared-bowl design, low-flush toilet that I removed within six months and chucked into a dumpster.  I went to a building recycle store at the time and bought an American Standard big-water flush model.  I remodeled the master bath the second year we lived here and the plumber rebuilt and re-installed the Am Std toilet that was previously there.  That worked perfectly until a rather rattling thunderstorm a few years later caused a small glass box to wiggle off of a shelf and crack the rim of the bowl.  I went to (now) Habitat and bought a Mansfield big-water toilet that I rebuilt and installed.

 

This last summer & fall, we remodeled the main bathroom and I bought two new toilets, both Kohler 1.28-1.6 gal. models.  I have to say my bias for big-water flushing has been eliminated.  These things are amazing.  We are about 80 feet from the main line at the street but so far, we've had no trouble at all.  I'm sure it helps that I have plenty of big-water washing machines and dishwashers to flush the line, but those new toilets are impressive.

 

[wayupnorth]

I have some of "The Works" and it does work very well. Unfortunately, I have to use it at least once a week and the smell will just about gag you.

 

[countryguy]

All this talk about toilets, etc. reminded me of a home reno episode on a TV show called 'Leave it to Brian' which airs on HGTV. The home owner was complaining that they could not use the toilet in the master bedroom because it was clogged. Brian removed the toilet, ran a snake down the pipe and literally took a dead snake out of the pipe! It was in a stage of decay so had been there for some time. That makes me think twice every time I sit down on a toilet! LOL

Gary

 

[davey7]

Yay for Flushometers!

I have sloan valves on my 20's toilets too. Love 'em!

We have a neighbor who installed a Toto toilet, not only were parts hard to find, but it caused noise throughout the building plumbing when the flapper went (and it wasn't obvious at the toilet itself).

 

[jeffg]

"We have a neighbor who installed a Toto toilet, not only were parts hard to find"

They make a lot of different 1.6 and 1.28 GPF models, a few can be configured to either with a ballcock and flapper change. But if you read the Amazon reviews, they're known for using readily available parts. We know the Drake does from first-hand experience. As for noise it's the single quietest toilet of any type I've ever used, and the main reason (aside from the air assist and 3" trap) we got two of them.

 

[davey7]

The problem was it was causing water hammer in the cold water supply and they weren't aware it was coming from their toilet.

I don't know how old it was (might not have been low flow, water in Chicago is cheap), but I know others who have had parts issues as well.

 

[circlew]

The toilet I bought for my basement bath is a Kohler wall-hung model, and I bought a Sloan flush valve for it. Will be so glad when it gets installed; hopefully by end of May. Waiting to get electrical and walls finished first.

 

[rp2813]

Wall Hung Toilets

Tom, do you have the mounting kit (aka "carrier") for your wall-hung unit yet?  We're in the midst of a remodel here and the wall-hung toilet will be on an exterior wall.  Space behind it is an issue, and the contractor is having a hard time finding a mounting kit that will work.  As a result, rough-in for sanitary connections has stalled.

 

Carriers don't come cheap, and it seems they aren't included with wall-mount toilets so must be purchased separately.  There's very little information about this on line.  Both the guy performing the work and the owner of the construction company have searched on line and couldn't find anything specific.

 

Wall-hung toilets in residential applications are still quite uncommon, and in many instances, the required 2"x6" studs are not in place.  In my case, they're going to fir out the wall with 2"x6" studs to accommodate the toilet.

 

This afternoon the guy took the Zurn carrier I bought on line with him to a plumbing supply house, prepared to explain the situation and find out what's available.  He thinks he's found something else made by Zurn but wants to be sure.  By the time we're through, the installed toilet could end up costing me around $1K.  I wasn't planning on that, so if you haven't researched carriers yet, you might want to get a jump on things.

 

I still think that it will prove well worth the expense.  I can make the toilet any height I want, and for Dave it's best if it's slightly higher than ADA specs.  The ease of cleaning underneath it goes without saying.  The choice of height is a secondary benefit that in our case we will use to our advantage.

 

[hydralique]

I did a remodel for a some very nice people a couple of years ago and they chose Toto wall mount toilets. I'm not sure of the model number but there was no problem getting all the requisite bits. So far they've been quite happy with the toilets, I still have regular contact with them and would likely hear if they were not happy.

 

I was surprised to see the comment above about Toto parts being hard to find; in my experience contractors love them because they flush well, are easy to get and homeowners have few complaints. However, the plumbing supply world is pretty wonky and availability of stuff is primarily determined by what major suppliers (like Ferguson) want to stock. Kohler is mostly easy to get but occasionally you'll find something of theirs that is special order and takes awhile. I don't even want to discuss trying to get some of the not so popular European brands as they can take a lot of lead time.

 

Regarding installation of low-flow toilets in old houses, here in California you don't have a choice if you're doing it as part of a remodel: state law requires only low-flow for replacement if part of new construction, and renovating a bathroom during a remodel qualifies. If you just go buy something and have a plumber install it then nobody knows.

 

[arbilab]

Reply #20

Yes it does smell, no worse than bleach. Plain old Comet and a brush cleans fine once the buildup is gone. I don't need The Works more than a couple times a year when the calcium comes back.

 

[NYCWriter]

Wall-hung toilet sag ...

One of the problems with wall-hung toilets is that over time they will sag. From one of my colleagues overseas who did a bathroom reno:

"After talking with plumbers here in the U.K. and bathroom fitters who install wall-hung all over the UK, they will not guarantee any work where the metal frame that holds the wall-hung toilet is fixed to a wooden framed wall. They say that unless these metal frames are fixed into either concrete walls or brick walls, there WILL be some give over time."

 

[arbilab]

Given the torque moment, a wall mount into wood WILL warp. The toilet plus its occupant weigh something like 400 pounds at almost a 3 foot arm or 1200 foot pounds.

Flushometers are seen almost exclusively in commercial buildings with at least a 5/8ths feed. I seriously doubt they work on typical 1/4" household feedlines.

The mystique to proper lowflow household units is that the flapper opening is half again larger, creating the 'surge' also attributed to 'pressurized' systems which are expensive and not carte-blanche successful.

 

[davey7]

Wall Hung Terlets

I don't think I've seen a residential install of wall-hungs in the US but they are much more common on the continent (masonry/concrete construction?). I did a job where we mounted the carriages on the floor as I recall. It was a medical office, so obviously had to meet ADA and cleanability - the MEP engineers spec'ed them as I recall.

Flushometers were pretty common in the 20's in Chicago, sometimes in single-family houses, but more commonly in courtyard buildings and up (ever so often in six-flats, but more rarely). Courtyard buildings are normally 3 floors over an "english basement", i.e. ground floor.

 

[foraloysius]

Lots of wall mounted toilets here, they have been very popular for many years in the Netherlands. Ofcourse it's all brick walls here. Never saw one that was sagging or warping. My parents installed one many years ago. My brother took over the house five years ago and the same toilet is still there. Still hangs like the day it was installed.

 

[mattl]

How about some real factual info rather than conjecture on wall hung toilets. We put one in in our basement 30 years ago. It never sagged. A lot of heavy people sat on it over the years, no issue. About 10 years ago I replaced it with a low flo version with a flushometer at it still is not sagging. The flushometer needs a healthy supply of water and the bath backs up to the closet with the water meter so it was easy to plumb in the larger lines needed for it.

It's true you need 2x6 framing to support it, but that is not too difficult of an issue to overcome. I like wall hung and would have no issues spec'ing it for any job I was doing.

 

[davey7]

Did you install a commercial toilet or a residential toilet? I think the European residential wall-hung toilets are tank models with a concealed tank, i.e. non-flusometer.

 

[foraloysius]

The toilet my parents installed has indeed a concealed tank.

 

[davey7]

Concealed tanks

I just went on Ifö's website to see how they did the concealed tanks. Seems like a maintenance hassle if it's concealed. You can even get an exposed tank model wall-hung (sort of defeats the idea of having a sleek wall hung install to me, but then again...).

 

[rp2813]

Exposed Tank Wall Hung

That's what I'm having installed.  The sources of most toilet issues are inside the tank, and I want to be able to access it.   A friend of ours has this type.  They are original to his 1961 wood frame house and have never been a problem.

 

This is for a master bath.  The deafening Niagra Falls effect of a Flushometer is the last thing I would want in there.

 

[NYCWriter]

"We put one in in our basement 30 years ago"

Presumably bolted into a concrete wall.