Questions on two KitchenAid dishwashers

[tomdawg]

My childhood dishwasher died today. It was a JDB1100AWS. Installed 11-14-2004. It started sparking and smoking. It sounded terrible over Christmas. So, my parents are looking for a new dishwasher.
They currently have a kitchen aid wall oven from last year. So I thought a kitchen aid dishwasher would be a good pick.

Two models I’m looking at Costco.

KDTM405PPS $900

KDTM804KPS $1399

The biggest difference between the two, 804 is top of the line and has all the bells and whistles. The 405 has similar features, but doesn’t have fan dry.

My concern is, would the 405 dry dishes ok? I know newer models don’t dry as well. I heard new kitchen aids dry really well, but didn’t know if it has to have fan dry or not.

 

[mattl]

I have not used the dry option on my DWs in decades.  But I do not use any plastic, everything flash dries, especially if Sani rinse option is used.

 

[combo52]

Which new KitchenAid dishwasher

The 804 is an excellent dishwasher. I don't think I'd go to the top of the line unless you just like to throw money away at things it's more complicated and slightly more likely to have problems.

The 804 has the three rack design that holds a ton of dishes. It does not have a nasty filter that ever has to be cleaned. It's got whirlpools one of a kind superior filtering system with a full 1/5 hp motor

The 804 has several drying options. It should do it more than adequate job drying dishes.

We constantly hear great things about these true three rack dishwashers from whirlpool. There are several guys on the site that have them, and I've had almost nothing but great things to say about them.

John

 

[lakewebsterkid]

KA DW

I have the 604 and it is the best dishwasher I have ever used. It has the fan drying that the 404 does not have. I do not see the need for the 804. I personally have heated dry off in the summer, so I wanted an additional boost with drying after the cycle finished as we run our machine at night a majority of the time. I have no complaints with performance at all. Not sure how much the fan increases drying, but it dries very well. Washing performance is killer. I have only had 2-3 items come out with a spec on them from poor loading. ProWash is the cycle you want to use. Also, I did initially have some third rack squeak, but that has not occurred for over a year. I suspect Finish Quantum had something to do with it. No other issues at all.

 

[tomdawg]

I looked at 604 and they are same price as the 804. This is at Costco- I thought it was weird for it to be the same price. They aren’t in a hurry so they might wait for a better sale.Thanks for the information!

Tom

 

[qsd-dan]

Something to keep in mind is that these are a nightmare to service, especially the filter. They're not like previous Whirlpool designs of the last 50-ish years where the the entire pump/motor assembly comes out from the top. The machine needs to be pulled out from the cabinet.

 

[egress]

nightmare to service

I don't think I fully agree with this "nightmare to service" having dealt both with whirlpools earlier design and this newer design. pulling it out of the cabinet is not that difficult, and given on the older one you had to reach around the pump to unhook the little locking tabs & stuff, which with how little space there is under there was no small task, I think its a bit of a moot point. Once it is out of the cabinet, it is not much different from their other dishwashers in terms of serviceability.

 

[qsd-dan]

True, except the filter part. I would be livid having to pull the dishwasher out and go to those lengths to disassemble and clean the filter. That's just bad engineering.

Everybody has different expectation though.

 

[combo52]

Unfortunately, modern tall tub dishwashers

With their increased capacity often do have to be removed to be repaired, this is true of all Bosch, Asko and Miele dishwashers and most US dishwashers currently to reach the main pump and even the drain pump in the case of GE's in many Frigidaire's.

The brilliant self cleaning filter system used in high-end KitchenAid Maytag, etc. will never require cleaning in a lifetime of use, while you do have to pull the machine on the newest models to get to the pump. It's still a lot easier than getting to the pump on a Bosch where you have to pull the machine and then disassemble the whole thing because it has a closed bottom.

In the field, I have only had to take apart one of these KitchenAid's to clean out this wonderful separator system. The customer was always washing metal cans with paper labels, and eventually the amount of paper that was getting into the unit did cause it to bind up it was relatively easy to take apart no parts required and put it back together. It won't happen again because she started taking the labels off the cans before washing them.

I don't know what the unhappy KitchenAid owner is doing to their machine that was mentioned in reply number five, but there are millions of these machines out there and it's a very rare service calI to have to take one apart and clean it, if my trusty old whirlpool dishwashers ever give up, I'm going to put two of these three rack KitchenAid's in my kitchen.

I lived with a KDSS 20 for years that did a good job but that machine always smelled bad also true of the older whirlpools we had that had filters in them before power clean you always had some food laying in the bottom of the machine don't care to repeat that so I'm not gonna buy a machine that has a manual filter. I see our customers using these new machines with filters in them and the people are going back to rinsing the dishes so they don't have to clean the filters, too much prep work for me.

The only thing I really don't like about these new dishwashers is how low to the floor. The door is. I don't like bending over that far to load and unload the lower rack at 6 foot tall and my partner is 64. I'm just not thrilled about all the bending although it's probably good for me.

John

 

[mark_wpduet]

Are the Maytag dishwashers in any way similar to the kitchenaids at all? I've eyed the Kitchenaids as my next possible DW.... Speaking of fan drying... I don't use the dry cycle either. I've learned that a clip fan works great along with flash drying. I bought a clip fan to keep in my kitchen just for that. When dishwasher done, pop it open, shake racks, mount the clip fan and let it blow for an hour or so and everything is bone dry. If I start the dishwasher at night and don't get to open it immediately, I just open it when I get up and do the same thing and it still dries them...

How cool would it be to have a built in fan to do it? LOL

 

[pierreandreply4]

as a kitchenaid dishwasher owner

as a kitchenaid dishwasher owner model kdfe204kps 0 i can say i am very satisfied with it and its also very quiet when in use

 

[lakewebsterkid]

604 vs 804

If the prices are the same, jump for the 804.
I fear people are just using Normal cycle (105°F wash)without options and very cheap detergent or those that do not contain sodium percarbonate. I have seen lots of videos with dishwashers gunked up beyond belief. Though, I have owned front loaders without build up or odor either. Likely a lot of user error.
The KA filter failures seem to be somewhat uncommon still. Though, you will see paper and bones in many of the videos where people are replacing the filters.

 

[egress]

Paper is the absolute killer of these machines. anyone using them should make sure that their detergent has cellulase enzyme in it as that will partially help, but the main solution is to not put items with paper labels/scrape fibrous food scraps off before loading. the fibers don't dislodge from the filter like other food material and over time it packs onto the mesh before eventually it snags on the outer backwash cover thing and causes the filter mesh to bend/break or deform. in the reddit post above you can visibly see some sort of hair or fibers in the gunge caked to the filter element, and what likely happened is that that wound itself around the filter and was fine right up until it dislodged & then it jammed the filter against the outer housing. part of me wonders if a modification to the design to allow for the occasional reversing of the motor would help with the fibers becoming wound around? though I think the engineers figured that this issue is an edge case if not purely based upon misuse. time will tell if we start seeing more of this. Ours has been bulletproof for 3 years now, apart from some calcium deposits and rack rust due to my parents habit of pre-rinsing everything.

 

[appnut]

What are examples of fibrous foods?

 

[panasonicvac]

I have a KitchenAid KUDS30IVBL3 since 2010 and I love it! I'd try to fix it up for as long as I possibly can but if I had to replace it, I'd love to get another KitchenAid or something that's similar to it. My grandfather has one of the newer TOL KitchenAids, I don't personally care much for that machine cause it has three racks which doesn't fit in the taller stuff like pitchers and there's a filter that has to be cleaned. Still a good machine but I like mine more. I did considered a Bosch until I found out they all use filters:/

 

[mattl]

I rarely use the 3rd rack in my KA.  I removed it for awhile but put it back in as I needed it from time to time.  I just adjusted my loading to accommodate the 3rd rack.

 

[michaelz08]

When it comes to filters…

I frequently see the KA clean water wash system mentioned but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents here on filter based systems.

Whirlpool seems to do a good job with their filters, as in my last WP (a global wash machine) it did not need frequent filter cleanings. Every 4 months or so I would pull it out and it would not be grimy.I would run vinegar cleaning cycles in the machine a couple times a year so perhaps this mitigated any residue that dud manage to accumulate.

Compare that to the new-model GE I just used for a week, with light loads it had more residue after a week than I saw on any of my filter based DWs from Frigidaire to Miele. Even funnier is that the market it as having a chopper but with all the filters in place, nothing large can even make it there.I was rather surprised it had so much gunk.

I’d say the fan enabled drying is more pertinent than the clean water wash system. It’s just convenient that they come together.

 

[tomdawg]

Update

They went with a 604.

My parents can’t believe how quiet the dishwasher is. My mom is rather impressed of how dry her dishes are as well.

I’m kinda jelly, the flexibility is huge compared to my Bosch 800 series!

 

[appnut]

Tom, I hope I'm not having to cross the bridge to making a decision anytime soon on my Bosch 800, but whenever that time comes, I may go with a KA (WP type product) again.