Russia Removing Foreign Detergents from Store Shelves
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iheartmaytag
Well-known member
My point being, most propaganda be it's derivation from Russia, WWII Germany, or the U.S. has some element of plausibility.
One could make the statement, U.S. Cars are dangerous. This could be true in the fact that all cars are inherently dangerous, but are they more so than cars produced elsewhere?
McDonald's has taken a big hit over their chicken parts nuggets. Some ran in droves away from McDonald's, Me, I like chicken parts, and they are more or less sanitized at 350 degrees, I can handle it. But I really don't want to know what's in them, same goes for hot dogs. Love them, but cow lips, ick.
So by banning these cleaning products, rather than come out and tell the citizens that its political, they tell them it's because they are toxic. They have plausibility because any chemical can be toxic, and they convince their populus to use something else.
For the most part all countries want to believe their government, and people of Russia are not different. No matter where you live, your home is what you want to defend and what you want to believe. So if my government bans something, I usually trust their ban. In most cases they won't ban something that should be, well Monsanto is a whole different story.
One could make the statement, U.S. Cars are dangerous. This could be true in the fact that all cars are inherently dangerous, but are they more so than cars produced elsewhere?
McDonald's has taken a big hit over their chicken parts nuggets. Some ran in droves away from McDonald's, Me, I like chicken parts, and they are more or less sanitized at 350 degrees, I can handle it. But I really don't want to know what's in them, same goes for hot dogs. Love them, but cow lips, ick.
So by banning these cleaning products, rather than come out and tell the citizens that its political, they tell them it's because they are toxic. They have plausibility because any chemical can be toxic, and they convince their populus to use something else.
For the most part all countries want to believe their government, and people of Russia are not different. No matter where you live, your home is what you want to defend and what you want to believe. So if my government bans something, I usually trust their ban. In most cases they won't ban something that should be, well Monsanto is a whole different story.
cranraspberry
Member
Ironically, in situations like modern-day Russia, the worse it gets for the people the better it is for Putin. His approval rating is at 86% currently - when was the last time you saw numbers like that in a first world democracy?
Propaganda is an effective tool, and what you have right now in Russia is a giant population who is blaming their worsening living conditions on the West. They support Russian "anti-sanctions" and the destruction of food because they are truly under the impression that by doing so they are fighting the imperialistic hegemony of the West and are willing to sacrifice more and more personal liberties and comforts in the name of that. How convenient for Putin and his corrupt government.
Detergents are nothing compared to the giant list of medical equipment that will soon stop being imported. NICU gear, which Russia does not produce, MRI imaging equipment and so on and so forth. That's where it gets really terrifying.
Propaganda is an effective tool, and what you have right now in Russia is a giant population who is blaming their worsening living conditions on the West. They support Russian "anti-sanctions" and the destruction of food because they are truly under the impression that by doing so they are fighting the imperialistic hegemony of the West and are willing to sacrifice more and more personal liberties and comforts in the name of that. How convenient for Putin and his corrupt government.
Detergents are nothing compared to the giant list of medical equipment that will soon stop being imported. NICU gear, which Russia does not produce, MRI imaging equipment and so on and so forth. That's where it gets really terrifying.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Agreed
But if you never knew any different. Most just go about and survive.
Keem em like mushrooms, Keep them in the dark and feed them. . .propaganda.
But if you never knew any different. Most just go about and survive.
Keem em like mushrooms, Keep them in the dark and feed them. . .propaganda.
It seems about time to revive Radio Free Europe -- the Russian version.
P.O. Box 2015
Radio City Station
New York, NY
P.O. Box 2015
Radio City Station
New York, NY
"I am sure that GW will find the WMD someday."
Huh? ISIS is a WMD, they have already stated that they intend to annihilate the yazidis and are doing a very good job of it. They would like to kill every single American and European as well as a bunch of Muslims that they don't feel are "Muslim enough". Millions of people are on the move, trying desperately to get anywhere else. How much more mass does it have to be? In order to really do anything about it boots will have to be on the ground. They'll have to bring back the draft in many countries. Are we really ready for this? Or are we going to continue to ignore it because they're just making the women sex slaves and killing all the men. Isn't it evil that somebody decides to make you a combatant in a war you have no interest in fighting and does so "in gods name"... ( please don't invite that God to my dinner table) I'll stop the rant here but you have the idea.
Huh? ISIS is a WMD, they have already stated that they intend to annihilate the yazidis and are doing a very good job of it. They would like to kill every single American and European as well as a bunch of Muslims that they don't feel are "Muslim enough". Millions of people are on the move, trying desperately to get anywhere else. How much more mass does it have to be? In order to really do anything about it boots will have to be on the ground. They'll have to bring back the draft in many countries. Are we really ready for this? Or are we going to continue to ignore it because they're just making the women sex slaves and killing all the men. Isn't it evil that somebody decides to make you a combatant in a war you have no interest in fighting and does so "in gods name"... ( please don't invite that God to my dinner table) I'll stop the rant here but you have the idea.
mrb627
Well-known member
Too Many...
Russians ate the PODS, apparently....
Malcolm
Russians ate the PODS, apparently....
Malcolm
arbilab
Well-known member
It's been postulated that had W not invaded Iraq-- for no productive reason whatsoever except that Halliburton was in line for the 'rebuilding' contract-- there would be no such thing as ISIS.
Also that had UK not capriciously drawn the map of the middle east with disregard to tribal boundaries, the whole middle east problem wouldn't exist.
Or had the US not alternately armed both Iran and Iraq against each other along the timeline.
We gave money to Noriega before he became such a problem we had to send the Army in to arrest him.
We gave money to Batista and looked the other way as he fell under the influence of US mobsters until HE became such a problem that we gave money to Castro to root him out. Then disenfranchised Fidel in retribution for nationalizing a US political crook's plantation holdings, bringing the world the closest ever to nuclear war over a gawdam bunch of bananas.
Then there's the drug-thug economy of many South American and Caribbean nations, made so by the Carter-era Sugar Proctection Act (SPAs date to the Colonies) which in one swell foop destroyed their ag economies and poisoned US soft drinks. Besides being THE customer for contraband substances.
That's the SHORT story of problems the US has bumbled itself into, taken chunks of the world down with it, then ballooned its armed bureaucracies attempting to sort.
None of that makes Putin any less of a chump.
Also that had UK not capriciously drawn the map of the middle east with disregard to tribal boundaries, the whole middle east problem wouldn't exist.
Or had the US not alternately armed both Iran and Iraq against each other along the timeline.
We gave money to Noriega before he became such a problem we had to send the Army in to arrest him.
We gave money to Batista and looked the other way as he fell under the influence of US mobsters until HE became such a problem that we gave money to Castro to root him out. Then disenfranchised Fidel in retribution for nationalizing a US political crook's plantation holdings, bringing the world the closest ever to nuclear war over a gawdam bunch of bananas.
Then there's the drug-thug economy of many South American and Caribbean nations, made so by the Carter-era Sugar Proctection Act (SPAs date to the Colonies) which in one swell foop destroyed their ag economies and poisoned US soft drinks. Besides being THE customer for contraband substances.
That's the SHORT story of problems the US has bumbled itself into, taken chunks of the world down with it, then ballooned its armed bureaucracies attempting to sort.
None of that makes Putin any less of a chump.
Russia isn't only "protecting their citizens from toxic harm" pretending to sanction detergents, they are also dumping food by the ton. (see link)
All of this is only proof that the Western sanctions on the Russian oligarchs and the economy they control are working. Sadly, with food prices skyrocketing, the sanctions are causing those who can least afford it financial pain. How do you combat this and prevent your citizens from rising up against you? Propaganda. All governments do it.
Would that Western democracies had complete control of the media and all information consumed by the public, approval ratings for leaders would certainly mirror those of Putin. Two sides to that story, as well, isn't there?
Remember "Freedom Fries" in the U.S. in the run-up to the Iraq invasion? That wasn't government manufactured propaganda, but they certainly loved it at the time, despite its baseless and childish origin. The same was true when one of the "rescued survivors" of Reagan's Grenada Island foolishness stepped off the plane and kissed American soil after a long flight of being convinced that they were in danger and had been saved by our military. Same story, different chapter now. There's plenty of bullsh*t to go around, step right up and get some!
All of this is only proof that the Western sanctions on the Russian oligarchs and the economy they control are working. Sadly, with food prices skyrocketing, the sanctions are causing those who can least afford it financial pain. How do you combat this and prevent your citizens from rising up against you? Propaganda. All governments do it.
Would that Western democracies had complete control of the media and all information consumed by the public, approval ratings for leaders would certainly mirror those of Putin. Two sides to that story, as well, isn't there?
Remember "Freedom Fries" in the U.S. in the run-up to the Iraq invasion? That wasn't government manufactured propaganda, but they certainly loved it at the time, despite its baseless and childish origin. The same was true when one of the "rescued survivors" of Reagan's Grenada Island foolishness stepped off the plane and kissed American soil after a long flight of being convinced that they were in danger and had been saved by our military. Same story, different chapter now. There's plenty of bullsh*t to go around, step right up and get some!
Russians start trashing banned Western food
Russians have begun trashing Western food -- including cheese, ham and peaches -- after President Vladimir Putin ordered authorities to destroy banned produce that was smuggled into the country.
money.cnn.com
US foreign policy has been dominated by the simplistic concept that the enemy of my enemy is my friend with no understanding of subtlety. That concept does not hold true. ISIS finds its roots in Wahabism which has kept Saudi Arabia conservative and the house of Saud in power for 200 years, theirs is an uneasy alliance, but since the women are the ones who suffer in Saudi Arabia it has been perpetuated. I don't think our diplomats in the 1940s understood any of this when they were carving up the post WWII world...back then the foreign service exam focused on americana, like who won the 1959 world series, promotion within the service was on a who you knew basis...fast forward to the fall of the Soviet Union and I don't see our foreign service as any better informed or aware of the subtle....I do think that they fully understood what jin they were letting out of the bottle with Sadam and that US oligarchs' greed has cost the US lives, limbs and reputation. I believe that those same oligarchs would make the same decision again today. In fact, the conservative politicians who are in their pay are saying that they would. So long as the other side is willing to enslave and sell women, there will be men to fight. ISIS speaks to the most base thing in some men's nature. It does not signify something holy in any sense of the word but by insisting that they pray before they rape, they try to pass it off as religion. In the US we have shock jocks advocating slavery, and women being branded as property. I am saddened by the idea that slavery which never really disappeared is on the rise again. So long as we dehumanize any portion of the human race we are all in trouble. The really simple question is, would you want to be sold and your life be effectively over? It really doesn't matter who you allow to be enslaved today, so long as the institution exists, you might be the unlucky one tomorrow. We really have no effing clue to how to deal with someone like Putin and his foreign=toxic argument.
It's about boycotting and slurring EU products in reality. They're only shooting themselves in the both feet by doing these things.
Threatening (even vaguely) EU countries with cutting gas supplies has just caused EU energy companies to invest more in avoiding Russian gas. In the medium to long term it just means that Russia is losing the world's largest (by spending power) consumer market.
EU exports to Russia aren't all that significant either.
The reality is Russia has been flying nuclear bombers into the edges of EU countries airspace. It's endangering civil aviation. We had an incident here in Ireland where an unannounced Russian bomber was in a commercial transatlantic flight path without any beacons switched on, making it less than detectable to civilian radar.
They've been testing various countries' defence systems by skimming the edges of airspace and causing fighter jets to be scrambled.
Then you've the whole eastern Ukraine issue going on.
We've even had thinly veiled threats they'd invade Finland being thrown around by some Russian politician a few months ago and we've had Russian nuclear subs in Swedish waters.
They are causing serious concerns in Europe and there's a sense that they could do something stupid like end up having an accident over EU or NATO territory with a bomber or cause some major incident.
Removing detergents and destroying food on "safety grounds" is just utter nonsense though.
Threatening (even vaguely) EU countries with cutting gas supplies has just caused EU energy companies to invest more in avoiding Russian gas. In the medium to long term it just means that Russia is losing the world's largest (by spending power) consumer market.
EU exports to Russia aren't all that significant either.
The reality is Russia has been flying nuclear bombers into the edges of EU countries airspace. It's endangering civil aviation. We had an incident here in Ireland where an unannounced Russian bomber was in a commercial transatlantic flight path without any beacons switched on, making it less than detectable to civilian radar.
They've been testing various countries' defence systems by skimming the edges of airspace and causing fighter jets to be scrambled.
Then you've the whole eastern Ukraine issue going on.
We've even had thinly veiled threats they'd invade Finland being thrown around by some Russian politician a few months ago and we've had Russian nuclear subs in Swedish waters.
They are causing serious concerns in Europe and there's a sense that they could do something stupid like end up having an accident over EU or NATO territory with a bomber or cause some major incident.
Removing detergents and destroying food on "safety grounds" is just utter nonsense though.
I will completely agree with Iej on this one!
And I certainly hold fast to my opinion that the big multinationals aren't going to be too concerned. I mean, every other country in the world they are established in still gives them plenty of money. Perhaps it could be (politically) viewed as an advantage? I don't know.
What I can say is that there was and remains a prime nuclear target in Australia in regards to Communications infrastructure. I have family who were boating in the area during the cold war who had a Soviet sub surface nearby. Upon reporting it to the Police; they were told, "We know they're around here. They do that all the time. We cannot do anything about it."
Really, while the last thing the world needs is even more conflict, the old saying, "When we look for trouble we are FAR more likely to find it" holds true. As in, don't play with fire. Something bad will eventually come of it, I'm sure.
And I certainly hold fast to my opinion that the big multinationals aren't going to be too concerned. I mean, every other country in the world they are established in still gives them plenty of money. Perhaps it could be (politically) viewed as an advantage? I don't know.
What I can say is that there was and remains a prime nuclear target in Australia in regards to Communications infrastructure. I have family who were boating in the area during the cold war who had a Soviet sub surface nearby. Upon reporting it to the Police; they were told, "We know they're around here. They do that all the time. We cannot do anything about it."
Really, while the last thing the world needs is even more conflict, the old saying, "When we look for trouble we are FAR more likely to find it" holds true. As in, don't play with fire. Something bad will eventually come of it, I'm sure.
cranraspberry
Member
Emerging markets are huge for corporations. The market share of P&G in Russia in 2008 was two billion US dollars, just to give you an idea of the amounts they'd have to recoup in other countries to reach their annual business goals.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
I've heard the argument that UK (not that they acted alone) map drawing in Africa is part of the reason for its current state of affairs.
I agree U.S. foreign policy is often simplistic. It's almost as if they honestly believe that other people in the world somehow stop having their own agendas just because they decide to go along with the U.S. at a particular point in time.
Russia/Soviet Union has its own weirdness as well. There's shock that their neighbors aren't overly thrilled with them because Russia's invaded so many times. There's a seeming lack of comprehension of how the world in general works. There's an expectation that countries will be impressed with them for no apparent reason. I remember reading an interview with the son or grandson of a former Soviet minister (Gromyko, IIRC). In it he stated that despite having lived for many years in different Western countries his (grand)father still had amazingly huge gaps of knowledge as to how most of the non-communist world functioned.
On a more serious note, what happens if/when Putin figures out that the rest of the world really doesn't need Russia? As iej and I have mentioned here and elsewhere, nearly every European country is working diligently to get to the point where they can say to Russia, "You want to turn off the gas? Go for it, dude. Watch what WON't happen." What'll he do then?
Jim
I agree U.S. foreign policy is often simplistic. It's almost as if they honestly believe that other people in the world somehow stop having their own agendas just because they decide to go along with the U.S. at a particular point in time.
Russia/Soviet Union has its own weirdness as well. There's shock that their neighbors aren't overly thrilled with them because Russia's invaded so many times. There's a seeming lack of comprehension of how the world in general works. There's an expectation that countries will be impressed with them for no apparent reason. I remember reading an interview with the son or grandson of a former Soviet minister (Gromyko, IIRC). In it he stated that despite having lived for many years in different Western countries his (grand)father still had amazingly huge gaps of knowledge as to how most of the non-communist world functioned.
On a more serious note, what happens if/when Putin figures out that the rest of the world really doesn't need Russia? As iej and I have mentioned here and elsewhere, nearly every European country is working diligently to get to the point where they can say to Russia, "You want to turn off the gas? Go for it, dude. Watch what WON't happen." What'll he do then?
Jim
jerrod6
Well-known member
P&G and Russia:
I agree that P&G stands to lose some money but they already have a backup plan. Two years ago the P&G CEO took a visit to stores in South American countries and announced that he had a vision. A vision that all of the powders on the shelves would be replaced with liquids.
Now tell me why we can't find powder detergents in stores in the USA.
So no Russia, more South America - and onward with the LIQUIDS!
I agree that P&G stands to lose some money but they already have a backup plan. Two years ago the P&G CEO took a visit to stores in South American countries and announced that he had a vision. A vision that all of the powders on the shelves would be replaced with liquids.
Now tell me why we can't find powder detergents in stores in the USA.
So no Russia, more South America - and onward with the LIQUIDS!
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