I guess the reason for the intense perfume in DASH was to cover up the smell of the fish oil. Making that detergent must have been a stinky process if you think about how strong oily fish smell. I checked on when the US stopped hunting whales and it was in the 1920s so whale oil was probably not used as a suds supppressant in Dash.
Simethicone experiment
- Thread starter helicaldrive
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Years ago when my father was battling with high blood pressure and a restricted salt diet, home plumbing was bypassed to supply the cold side of the kitchen sink (and drinking water filter) with non-softened water. The area has it's water sourced from wells in a limestone aquifer and typical hardness is 18-22 grain/gal. After my father passed away I almost immediately removed the hard water bypass.
When the kitchen cold water was hard, the faucet needed to be rebuilt almost yearly. Ice from the icemaker was dusty and lots of fun debris floated around in your glass or ice water. Softening hot only would bring this hard water problem to every fixture and causes the toilets to need more frequent cleaning.
There is no doubt that the softened water mandates far more caution in dosing laundry detergents (or avoiding some types completely). I don't have any issue with bathing feel as I would never use soap for anything anymore. I suppose as long as the water supply is reasonably soft, perhaps 5 grain/gal, I wouldn't waste the money and water with softening, but with our water I wouldn't consider not softening the whole house.
When the kitchen cold water was hard, the faucet needed to be rebuilt almost yearly. Ice from the icemaker was dusty and lots of fun debris floated around in your glass or ice water. Softening hot only would bring this hard water problem to every fixture and causes the toilets to need more frequent cleaning.
There is no doubt that the softened water mandates far more caution in dosing laundry detergents (or avoiding some types completely). I don't have any issue with bathing feel as I would never use soap for anything anymore. I suppose as long as the water supply is reasonably soft, perhaps 5 grain/gal, I wouldn't waste the money and water with softening, but with our water I wouldn't consider not softening the whole house.
Even if the US stopped whaling in the 1920s it doesn`t necessarily mean the oil wasn`t used anymore. Buying raw materials cheap on the world market has been done in the past too. For example Wikipedia mentions Sperm Oil (a type of whale oil) to be used in the US in automatic transmission fluids until 1972 when it finally got banned.
Hydrogenation reduced the fishy odor of whale oil and as a fat in a solid state vs a liquid oil it became useful for soap and margarine long after its peak time when it was mostly used as a lamp fuel.
Can`t find anything about Dash in particular and my statement was just an assumption of course, but margarine based on whale oil seems to have been around until the early 60s.
Fish oil in early Dash formulations has been mentioned repeatedly on AW without going into depths what kind of fish or what technology behind, so I was wondering if it was the raw material for a low sudsing surfactant or for soap.
You never know but just putting an oil into a detergent formula to cut back the suds would be kind of counterproductive because the oil would consume a lot of the detergent`s detergency, wouldn`t it?
But then again soap as a suds suppressant used in modern detergents works in a similar way. The soap per se does not cut back the suds, it is the part of the soap that forms soap scum (lime soap) with hard water minerals. The greasy lime soap then cuts back sudsing and in theory as long as the detergent isn`t underdosed is the scum should be held in suspension by the usual man made surfactants and finally be rinsed off fabrics.
Hydrogenation reduced the fishy odor of whale oil and as a fat in a solid state vs a liquid oil it became useful for soap and margarine long after its peak time when it was mostly used as a lamp fuel.
Can`t find anything about Dash in particular and my statement was just an assumption of course, but margarine based on whale oil seems to have been around until the early 60s.
Fish oil in early Dash formulations has been mentioned repeatedly on AW without going into depths what kind of fish or what technology behind, so I was wondering if it was the raw material for a low sudsing surfactant or for soap.
You never know but just putting an oil into a detergent formula to cut back the suds would be kind of counterproductive because the oil would consume a lot of the detergent`s detergency, wouldn`t it?
But then again soap as a suds suppressant used in modern detergents works in a similar way. The soap per se does not cut back the suds, it is the part of the soap that forms soap scum (lime soap) with hard water minerals. The greasy lime soap then cuts back sudsing and in theory as long as the detergent isn`t underdosed is the scum should be held in suspension by the usual man made surfactants and finally be rinsed off fabrics.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Henkel's Persil 4in1 Discs
These seem to have an awful lot of perfume ingredients... 23 perfume ingredients for the 'Universal', 25 for the 'Color'!
These seem to have an awful lot of perfume ingredients... 23 perfume ingredients for the 'Universal', 25 for the 'Color'!
I think it`s all about transparency which is a good thing if a manufacturer has nothing to hide. Or maybe they`re just getting prepared early for upcoming strikter laws.
25 scent ingredients really isn`t that much, there can be hundreds of scent ingredients hiding in the word "fragrance" that currently don`t have to be listed except for the well known potential scent allergens that have to be labeled.
In the case of Persil Discs that would be only two that have to be listed by law and this is geraniol and linalool.
25 scent ingredients really isn`t that much, there can be hundreds of scent ingredients hiding in the word "fragrance" that currently don`t have to be listed except for the well known potential scent allergens that have to be labeled.
In the case of Persil Discs that would be only two that have to be listed by law and this is geraniol and linalool.
Just to make a point of what could be found in a detergent`s scent, there`s a long list of scent ingredients that P&G commonly uses in their products.
At the end of the list a couple of ingredients are listed that they either don`t use or at least don`t use anymore. Not exactly what I`d call ideal transparency because you`re still left in the dark of what is exactly in a certain product except for the few most potent allergenes that must be listed, but at least it`s a start in the right direction.
Still thinking 25 perfume ingredients in Persil Disks are an awful lot?
At the end of the list a couple of ingredients are listed that they either don`t use or at least don`t use anymore. Not exactly what I`d call ideal transparency because you`re still left in the dark of what is exactly in a certain product except for the few most potent allergenes that must be listed, but at least it`s a start in the right direction.
Still thinking 25 perfume ingredients in Persil Disks are an awful lot?
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
I rather think you'll find that detergents are covered by EC Regulation 648/2004, which states that the Material Safety Data Sheet has to be available to medical personnel on demand - and a list of ingredients made available for the rest of us.
But this is not an MSDS what you posted, is it?
There is an MSDS of the Persil Discs online as well but it doesn`t list scent ingredients, only a few chemicals of concern are listed.
In this case it`s mainly two different surfactants and the enzyme protease (due to a high concentration) which are considered dangerous.
There is an MSDS of the Persil Discs online as well but it doesn`t list scent ingredients, only a few chemicals of concern are listed.
In this case it`s mainly two different surfactants and the enzyme protease (due to a high concentration) which are considered dangerous.
180 mg Simethicone
Had some towels getting a little frothy. Dropped two 180 mg simethicone gel things in the detergent dispenser and all suds was gone and stayed gone through the rinses.
Had some towels getting a little frothy. Dropped two 180 mg simethicone gel things in the detergent dispenser and all suds was gone and stayed gone through the rinses.
I find adding a teaspoon to an ounce or so of STPP to each wash load handles the mildly hard water here just fine. I use a bit more if the wash load is heavily soiled, such as work or gardening clothes, since STPP not only softens the water, but helps to break mineral based soils from fabric.
Since this is a Mediterranean climate, the tap water hardness varies through the seasons, harder towards the end of summer, softer after winter rains, and it gets harder after a period of prolonged drought. At least that's my impression.
For watering the lawn and garden, I use well water, which is VERY hard. However it's not potable, and the one time I tried using it to top off the fish pond, lost a number of fish. Oh well.
Since this is a Mediterranean climate, the tap water hardness varies through the seasons, harder towards the end of summer, softer after winter rains, and it gets harder after a period of prolonged drought. At least that's my impression.
For watering the lawn and garden, I use well water, which is VERY hard. However it's not potable, and the one time I tried using it to top off the fish pond, lost a number of fish. Oh well.
I don't know why the simethicone thread keeps getting hijacked by water softener talk. At least we've tried to make the information available.
Tom, because AW.org. ;-)
Maybe it`s because OP had an oversuds situation in mechanically softened water?
Am I the only one who appreciates the freedom we`re given in this forum to change the subject as subjects would change in a real life conversation too?
I think this is exactly what make AW.org so unique and intimate compared to moderated forums.
Am I the only one who appreciates the freedom we`re given in this forum to change the subject as subjects would change in a real life conversation too?
I think this is exactly what make AW.org so unique and intimate compared to moderated forums.
