Something I discovered on Obama

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How can anyone here claim that Christians are so cruel and h

Carl, get real honey!! We love you to death, but....PUHLEEEASE!

True, not all Christians are created equal. And yes, they do judge you. Telling you that you are not worthy to be married to another man, and express your love to him like your straight counterparts, with the same rights and priviledges, because you're not good enough (it says so in the bible!!), is JUDGEMENT. Doesn't mean many of them aren't basically good people, but their basic thought processes are flawed because they haven't learned to think for themselves. Yes, not all Christians are created equally, and different denominations have radically different views on this, but they still share the same title - Christian. True Christians will stand with their fellow brothers and sisters through thick and thin, and say, hey, they're just as good as I am, and just as worthy as I am. I know many wonderful Christians, WONDERFUL! But ask them if they think gay folks should be permitted to get married, let alone get married in the church, and I haven't heard a heartfelt "yes" yet, with only one or two exceptions. Give me a fucking break!

Remember, southern baptists are Christians too...and many of those denominations would just assume you burn in a pile of trash than be allowed live openly as a gay man. Yes, living in the south is a real eye-opener!!
 
This is what the republicans are offering: Censorship!

When christianists start firing librarians for not censoring books, then it is time to fight back!
I find it interesting that the christianists scream constantly how under attack they are from us horrible believers in the US Constitution...yet they use every opportunity to censor, discriminate and abuse their power.

 
MRX READ his book, watch the video, you'll understand.
Panthera You should be worried about how the Dems treat Gays as well....unless you accept the Clinton idea of DON'T ASK ...DON'T TELL. How S T U P I D is that???? And as far as Obama goes, even with the Muslim issue aside, HE'S BLACK. Any idea of how BLACKS feel about gay people????? Ask some. Especially ask you black gay friends. LOOK AT HIS FAMILY and how he was raised. Does any of this tell you anything????
 
Simple

....well, now, there ya go. For some people the issues are pretty black and white. I suspected that was what this was all about.
 
oooohhh

....that ugly monster rears it's head. Yes, it does seem to be at the base of a lot of views unfortunately. I still think they should whip it out and move on before someone goes further off the deep end.
 
This Is Out of Hand

Mark:

I've tried to tolerate your religious intolerance on this thread, and I've tried to ignore the extraordinarily nasty tone you're taken in regards to Senator Obama.

But now you're making a statement that is highly charged racially, and I have to take some responsibility for your having done that, because I did not speak up on the previous occasions where you made me uncomfortable.

I am now speaking up. While you have every right to your opinions, this forum is being made an uncomfortable, unwelcoming place by what you are expressing in this thread. I am asking you to take a more moderate tone, and to leave the pejorative stuff out of the discussion.

Please have some respect for the feelings of others.
 
I just watched that video and how the heck does that show any Islamic leanings AT ALL?
Welcome to America MRX, wanna move here LOL?

Does any of this tell you anything????
***Cringing*** Oh it sure does, it says a whole lot of things.

But anyway, oh I forgot to share this little local news tidbit. The Rake Magazine published a guide for the visitors about places to go and see around the Minneapolis-St. Paul, out of 150 pages it included 6 pages devoted to where gay tourists and gay republican delegates could find some fun as well. Well you can guess what happened next...

 
Mark,

I think you raise some valid issues so I will try to answer them as best I can.
My late husband was black. And gay. And half-Irish.
His family and friends took a very long time to accept his being gay, most never did.
It't true, there is an enormous amount of hatred towards homosexuals and Jews in the American Black community.
But I have never seen or experienced anything to indicate that this hatred is determined by race. I have met many blacks in Europe and in the US who have no problem with gays and Jews.
Obama is half-black. None of his actions or speeches have ever suggested he would discriminate more against gays or Jews than other main-stream Democrats.
Yes, Bill Clinton really knifed us in the back. I do not accept for one nano-second the bullshit about how things would have been even worse if he hadn't sold us out.
In the end, the question for me is, do I go with people who are not my friends as a gay man, but who are willing to leave me in peace...or do I go with people who are secessionists, avowed members of a party which seeks to overturn the US Constitution and who as recently as last Sunday attended a sermon during which homosexuality was characterized as a sin which must be treated?
Yes, the choice this time is between mediocre (Obama) and un-American (Palin). Neither pleases me, but as little as Palin's daughter's pregnancy influences my decisions, so does Obamas skin color or Hawaiian origins.
Ultimately, it comes down to personal experience. I have had some nasty things said to me here by the politically correct, I have been accused of mental illness by some of the killer queens, the e-mails I have received from some members of this and the *other* club were such that I truly expected Idlewild or Bedlam as the return address. But only one group of people here have actively attempted to hurt my family and me. And that was some of the fundamentalist Christians on the far right. There's a big difference between arguing and not agreeing in the virtual world. But when people actually attack people in the real world...well do you really wonder why I fear your side of the aisle?
When I am in Europe and acquaintances tell me how wrong I am to dislike the Islamic culture and religion, how foolish of me to support Israel...I get out my newspaper cuttings of the Frankfurt Airport attack. I was there that day, only reason I didn't get blown up was because I had to return to my car. Muslims are not all evil, but there is a violence in that religion which frightens me. Never been attacked by a Jew or a non-fundamentalist Christian. Have been by fundamentalist Christians.
And that, in the end is the problem I have with the conservatives who now run the republican party. I have personally experienced the hatred and violence of which they are not only capable, but glory in.
I know the bible, I was raised in a Christian home. Christian by your definition, that one may only be saved by acknowledging the grace of Jesus Christ. But neither of my parents nor any of their church members ever countenanced the hatred and violence the conservative wing of the American Christians are engaged in towards homosexuals today.
Ultimately, I think it will take a very long time before the polarization of American politics can be overcome. The culture wars have hurt too many of us in the center and on the left, the attacks by the right have made trust very hard. For me, impossible.
On a personal note, I have defended Shane, I have defended Rune and I have tried to defend you when you were personally attacked. I never write anonymous emails, I try to avoid ad hominem attacks. Certainly I have said some things here which were harsh and I am sorry I've hurt you. I wish, truly I do, there were a way to work together. The Nazis tried to kill us all, they failed. Surely, surely it is time for the political right to accept what science has firmly demonstrated: Homosexuality is not an illness, it is not a choice.
 
Na,

What upset them was when that cute 'stall-cop did a tap-dance on the runway to welcome the Virgina delgation...then greeted half the male members by name...
Isn't this the state whose fornicating senator is still in office because cheating on his wife with women doesn't bother christianists? Or was that the other one? I can't keep track of all the republican scandals.
 
I think I am entitled to comment as a non-American outside observer. All I can say is that I really hope that your presidential election ends up having more substance than irrational mud slinging and religious fundamentalism.

There are a lot of challenges facing the US (and the rest of us too!). I just hope that the level of debate gets beyond silly racist slurs and the fact that Palin's daughter seems to be unable to figure out how to use a condom.

I hope that this election comes down to economics, because that's the #1 issue that is really facing the US and the western world.

We (and I say 'we' because I think Europe and the US are in this together) are being held to ransom by a group of unstable oil rich states in the Middle East and an increasingly scary Russia. The entire banking system and stock market is in the worst mess in over 60 years and we're looking at having our economies eclipsed by China within a few years.

I would be saying good luck to the Chinese too, if it weren't for the fact that they're a quasi-capitalist dictatorship with a terrible human rights record!

I just hope that the debate is rational and sensible and that the best person for the job for the right reasons i.e. that he can actually push America forward.
 
Did they include a map to the Larry Craig Hospitality Suite at the airport?

I certainly hope so, that sure is my favorite spot to pee whenever I'm either flying out or back home at MSP. :)
 
good grief.....

give us a break from this petty crap. geezzz. Look at Obama's platform,that's what he's about.
 
Some of the older Black folk have a big problem accepting Gays, but I find most of the younger Black people do not have a problem with Gay people at all. I have lived in the Black Community for most of my life, and have never had a problem with anyone about my being Gay. I do not flaunt it, but do not hide it either. All my friends know that I am Gay, including several gang members, that are also close friends.
The old "fire and brimstone" southern baptist churches still preach against Gay people however, and that leads many of the Gay brothers to keep it on the "low" The preachers are creating a many problems for the Black Community by preaching against the Gays. The spread of AIDS is just one of the results of being on the low, and another problem of the "low" is contributing to the list of absent fathers.

I have to add while I have never accused anyone here of being racist, the rule of thumb where I come from is that if someone must proclaim that they are not racist without accusation, most likely that person would be in fact, racist. Otherwise the claim of not being racist would never have to be brought up in the first place.

Also I do not really care if someone else attends church services, nor who someone else votes for. As long as I am not expected to follow their choices, I have no problem.
 
ahem...

Any attempt at discussing "religion" is pretty pathetic...it always ends up like the freakin' KennelRation dog food commercial from the 70s (everyone SING ALONG, now!):

"MY god's better than YOUR god...MY god's better than YOURS!"

Guess what, folks...you're not gonna "believe" (haha) this, but:

Religion is the root of all evil. Period.

No, really! It was designed and implemented at the dawn of civilization by the Evil Reptilian Overlords to "Keep the Mammals down." And it's obvious that it's done a real bang-up job, hasn't it? So until all religion (and the insistence that we must "believe" in something that knows better than us what is best for us) is crushed by the rationality of science and reason, it will continue to crush and subjugate the spirit and will of each and every human being on earth.

Now please, everyone put everything back in your pants and lets get back to talking about Maytags.
 
I don't think you can just make a statement like:

All (insert race/nationality) are (insert trait).

It's overly simplistic, narrow minded and indicative of racism.

Also, how exactly do you define 'black people' other than the fact that they share african heritage, their cultural, religious, educational and ethnic backgrounds are as different as 'white people'. You're making very sweeping generalisations about a very large % of the world's population. Oddly enough, you'll find that the colour of your skin doesn't necessarily mean that you comply with some handy stereotype.

Obama strikes me as a well educated, urban, relatively young guy who has rapidly risen through the ranks of the liberal side of the Democratic party. To me it would seem rather unlikely that he's going to be homophobic!
 
Mark, you keep asking us to read Barack Obama's "book". I've read all four books written by him, and another four written by others, culled from his speeches. Can you please cite -- specifically -- where he claims any belief in Islam?

And the video you referenced in your initial post is something straight out of a "Saturday Night Live" sketch. The fact is, Obama was exactly correct in his Biblical quotations: Leviticus and Deuteronomy do condone slavery and the beating of slaves, putting to death gay people and 20 other classes of people, and putting to death one's own children in certain cases.

And you'll also need to tell us where Jesus claimed it was ok to wage "preventive" wars against countries who neither attacked us nor threatened to do so. I wonder how many Christians were even aware of Pope John Paul II's proclamations against the Iraqi invasion. He called it "neither legally nor morally justifiable". Therefore Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are mass murderers, and those who supported their invasion -- regardless of political party -- are accomplices to mass murder.

 
I suppose Obama was just trying to placate gay and lesbian voters when he said the following:

"I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination."
 
Hi All!

Will talk to you all later....Carpet is installed and after 5 years of construction.....I'M MOVING IN!!!
PS. I would stongly suggest that all you queens get your panties out of your cracks, as it really won't matter who is elected anyway. Business as usual in Washington. Both McCain and Obama owe too much to too many and that's just the way it works. I shouldn't have gotten you all so worked up but at least, HOPEFULLY, you started educating yourselves on whom you are going to vote for. We are in this mess because of people that had NO IDEA of who the PERSON REALLY WAS they were voting for. I imagine it's the same with these two candidates. We won't really know who they are until they are in office. God help us all.....and God Bless you all. You're all a great bunch of boys and girls. Hugs, Mark Lightedcontrols
 

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