Soon to be very COOL KitchenAid KD-12 Dishwasher

[clariona]

Washer Arm Design Question

We have a pink KitchenAid K-12 dishwasher that came with our 1959 home that we bought a few decades ago. It still works okay, but it should rotate faster. Is there supposed to be a ball bearing or washer at the top of the shaft where the cast iron wash arm sits? I hear a metal on metal sound when turn it by hand. And when I give it a push, it revolves 1 1/2 times before coming to a stop. What lubrication is recommended? Thanks for any help.

 

[stevet]

What is the wash arm support made of

On your machine? The later models had a bakelite housing that would wear out quicker than the metal housings. If you have the metal housing, it had a brass "bearing" on the top circumference of it that the bottom surface of the wash arm rotated on. If the machine does not get frequent use, these surfaces can develop rust on them or lime scale which cause the wash arm to slow down and in some cases, even freeze up and not turn at all.
You can take some very fine steel wool and polish the surfaces to make sure that they are smooth and that should eliminate the problem. Remember, too, that water works as a lubricant and helps the arm slip while rotating. If the surfaces are dry, you may very likely hear some squeaking from turning the arm.There is no lubrication you can use that won't be washed away by the detergent.
If there is wear on the internal brass bushing that sits over the support pin, which may be causing the problem too, then you will either have to find another arm from one of our members or take it and the top of the support to a machine shop and have them fabricate you a new bronze bearing for the arm. They were pressed in so getting it out will be the real challenge.

It is always great to hear how long these machines have lasted. Whirlpool will never be able to duplicate the longevity designed into the true Hobart Kitchenaid machines.

 

[norgeway]

Beautiful

Robert, If we could start a appliance company, you are in charge of design and engineering!

 

[toploader55]

"Whirlpool will never be able to duplicate the longevity..."

 

Oh Steve... You're asking for it. LOL

 

 

[clariona]

Bakelite

...is what our support housing is made of. The circular top surface of the support pin is flat and has an inlaid square of brass at its center - about 1/16 inch on each side. I plan to make it a little smoother and examine the wash arm bearing. Last time I looked, there was evidence of the wash arm rubbing on the support housing, a fine circular tracing. What about a brass washer if the upper bearing seems okay?

 

[mattl]

Draining the KA...

Funny this thread reappeared just now.  I'm sitting a few feet from my  vintage KA dishwasher trying to come up with a plan to drain it.  I was disappointed to read the solenoid is energized the entire cycle then turns off when the unit drains.  Was thinking of starting a thread.

 

Anyway I have a gravity drain model and I'm installing it in my basement so no way to drain it easily.  I'm putting it next to my mid 70's Whirlpool DW, and I ran a drain line for it about 14" off the floor.  I have the pump assembly from an early 90's GE DW and I was thinking of using it to drain the KA, Looking at the wiring diagram mine shows an optional drain pump wired into the solenoid.  If the solenoid was energized on drain it would work well, now, not sure.  I suppose I could rig up a circuit perhaps with a NC relay, and when the solenoid was de energized the pump would kick in.  Not sure.

 

Another thought was to run another drain line at floor level and simply drain it into the floor drain in the basement.  It will get little use so I wont be polluting too much, but if you follow the news, the Flint River water is pretty bad without my added dishwasher detergent.  My storm drains that my house tiles are tied into drain into the river about 3/4 mile away..

 

 

[clariona]

Success and Gravity Drains

Thank you. Our KitchenAid K-12 now runs perfectly. A full load of dishes came out sparkling. The wash arm rotates robustly and at full speed, and the splashing action is good and strong. All this as a result of cleaning some of parts (wash arm, support housing and pin, drain strainers) and using steel wool to gently smooth the surfaces of the wash arm support pin and the inner surfaces of the wash arm bearing. Have you ever seen a black K-12? It's almost elegant. We had it commercially enamelled 15 years ago. By the way, the gravity drain on our machine evacuates the water in less than 10 seconds, trouble free for 30 years.

 

[jkbff]

Unimatic, why on earth were you in Bismarck, of all places? That's only 90 miles from me!!!!

Oh, That black is gorgeous!!!

 

[clariona]

Replacing Pump Motor Blues

SOS. My black enamel 1959 KD-12 finally had its first serious setback after 59 years of service. The pump motor seized with a screech and some smoke. I plan to repair it (bearings, water seals, lubrication, electrical). I started to remove the motor by following the owners manual instructions. After removing the impeller and eight screws, the motor did not budge. It is supposed to drop downward with some gentle easing. I started to use some force a la rubber hammer and lead hammer. I used penetrating oil, and removed the impeller and the shaft pin. I disconnected the drain valve from the motor by removing its two screws. The only thing that may need removing is a "washer" or ring just below the pin hole, as well as the seal seat, water seal, and related parts, but they do not budge. Is that "washer" the key to releasing this massive motor? There is also a casting (rusty) below all this and it is unclear if that is a firm foundation or the top of the motor. SOS

 

[stevet]

Be very careful...

With the shaft seal on that motor.

Here's what to do. If you have gotten the wash impeller off, and the pin that holds the top of the seal out, then carefully remove the top of the seal which could be a ceramic or metal part. They cannot be had from anyone or anywhere. At least without trying to match it up at a really good seal supplier.

The lower half can remain in place in the metal pump housing because the motor shaft will slide right out of it when you take the motor apart.

I assume that you have removed the machine and if not, please do so as this will make it easier to remove the motor. What is holding it in place are the cork gaskets that seal that top tank ring and the lower splash shield to the tank and motor. Once the machine is out. turn the machine upside down and spray some PB Blaster, nothing else...not WD-40 or other penetrating oil. Use the PB Blaster and soak the area around the gasket. Let it seep in and then spray some more. This should soak into the gaskets and help loosen them up.

If you get really lucky, you may be able to jostle the motor loose from the tank. Otherwise, you will have to pry it away from the tank. Go gently and try as best you can to save the metal shields for reuse. You will probably have to make replacement gaskets yourself. I don't know if anyone on the forum has new parts that they can get to you.

Once you have the motor out, you can separate the motor by removing the screws on the bottom and the motor will split into 3 parts. If you have a drain pump mounted on the bottom of the motor, take out the screws holding it to the bottom of the motor and DO NOT separate it from the drain valve. You will likely break the tank like device that attaches to the drain valve.

Those 4 screws that hold the motor together will probably hard to get out so be patient and keep your fingers crossed. I would suggest using a hand held impact driver to shock the screws into turning and work them out slowly if you can. You don't want to break them. When you reassemble the motor, put some anti-sieze on the threads to make it easier to remove them in the future.

If you didn't try to start the machine a lot, hopefully the start windings are not burned badly and you can still get some life out of the motor. If worse comes to worst, you may have to have the motor rewound. Go to a really good motor shop. A good shop worth its salt can rewind any motor. Anyone who blows you off probably does not do good work.
The bearings are standard bearings, permanently lubricated(though at 59 yrs old, the grease probably dried up.) Replace them with sealed bearings, not open faced ones.
If all goes well, you will have a motor ready to last another 60 years. Reinstall the motor into the tank which now, you may want to do with the machine right side up but it is still a bear to do.
A hint to make it easier.. Take one of the motor mounting bolts to Ace Hardware or Home Depot and get a piece of "all-thread" to match the mounting bolt. Cut 3 or 4 pieces maybe 3 or 4 inches long and when you are ready to lift the motor into place, you can thread the all thread into the top of the motor these pilot screws will help you to pull the motor into place and secure it. Install the other screws and then remove the pilot screws and replace them with the correct screws. This will also keep the gaskets and lower shield in place while you are raising the motor. Reinstall the shaft seal and everything else. Water test it and make sure you don't have leaks and you should be good to go.
Just for the record, the part number for the seal is 00-077107 so maybe an internet search will help you. Ideally, you would want to replace it. If you should find one, have the motor shop install the lower part that goes into the top housing before returning it to the machine.

See, how easy that was! Oh man I replaced and rebuilt so many of those motor wghen I was so much younger.

 

[clariona]

Ready to Unroll

Thanks SteveT. Your advice is beyond invaluable. I am now ready to proceed. I do have enough rolls of thick cork sheeting in my stockpile to make new gaskets, if need be. And I did notice that fragile layer of carbon in that washer sandwich. I'll still need to find a successful way to hold the motor shaft from turning and getting enough purchase to turn that stubborn washer at the the top of the seal away and off. Even small vise grips can be crude tools. But as you described, all that may be a lot easier once I have the motor on the workbench. Michael.

 

[stevet]

Shaft seal question

You are taking about the piece of the seal that is conical in shape and was being held in place with the small pin that the impeller locks on to,right? If so, and it is the metal one, they can really be a PIA to remove without doing damage to the lower carbon seal that is inserted into the top of the motor housing.
Maybe a picture?
You may want to try some PB Blaster on it but in such a way as to not get it on the lower part and chancing ruining the rubber inside the seal. I feel for you as this was usually a no go situation and we usually replaced the motor and installed a new ceramic style upper seal.
Again, the part number for a new seal is 00-077107. Does your machine have the gravity drain on it? If so, you can see if you can locate a new motor p/n 00-070380-00001. It does not allow the drain pump to be attached and only works with the gravity drain.
Maybe someone here on the forum can help you with the parts as they were obsoleted by Hobart back in the early 90's and these are the commercial versions. The domestic versions techniclly became NLA in the mid to late 70's.

 

[superocd]

I'm a little jealous...

Especially when I see that CAST IRON spray arm. What a contrast to my MOL 2014 Whirlpool with a tinny "stainless" arm and the "fishtank" pump. That KitchenAid will probably still be running after my WP quits (I give it five more years, I'm not too confident that the fish tank pump will hold up).

You can definitely see Hobart DNA in that wash arm. It's like a scaled-down model of the ones in the conveyor and the single-tank machines. I remember being invited into the kitchen of my grade school by the lunch ladies. I was intrigued at all the different appliances back there: Blodgett ovens, a pair of Koch and McCall fridges and freezers, Vulcan ranges and the Groen kettle. The one that intrigued me the most was the Hobart single tank machine. I got a peek at the inside and saw the massive spray arm. To a third grader, it was a little ominous looking.

If I could make a recommendation, I'd see if a metal fabricator could fab a trim piece to go around the window to give it a more streamlined look.

 

[leefree]

Wow neat!