Speed Queen FL on the fritz *again*

[stricklybojack]

.
Exactly, Laundress nailed it.
It is the biggest downside to the FL design. One of my wife's small thin socks made it's way around the boot, was torn in at least two pieces by the drum action, and then probably were rolled into slinky, slithery, cigarette like pump stoppers.

I also think the point about computers used for load balancing is right too, but it doesn't negate that it also conveniently functions as a built in Trojan Horse self destruct mechanism.

 

[launderess]

Have not seen these domestic SQ washers personally

But if they are like the commercial/launromat versions the boot isn't like Miele and other domestic front loaders. Rather more like Asko and most all commercial machines; the seal is around the door window. This means there is often just enough space for small items to work their way between tubs.

Again this is why commercial washer makers for years advised placing small items into mesh nets.

 

[earthling177]

Robert: I'm sorry to hear all of this is happening to you. Here's hoping it gets better soon.

All: I would love all of us to take a look around and watch what we are doing.

We are much more knowledgeable than most average users.

Just take a look around threads here -- there are *plenty* of threads about machines dumping the contents of the outer drum on the floor (right now there's a current thread about a top loading FilterFlo) and there are people all the time asking for help with pumps that broke and/or got jammed by socks, underwear, underwires etc. Notice I did not specify which kind of washers, because it happens to both top loading and front loading washers. If we look dispassionately at it, it happens "more" to toploaders than to frontloaders simply because (a) as a rule, most washers in USA do not have an easily accessible pump clean-out port like Euro machines and (b) because so far, the percentage of frontloaders installed base is dwarfed by the installed base of toploaders, although frontloaders seem to be slowly gaining ground in US.

Either way, take a look at this thread, and the number of things like "frontloaders are more complex" etc that even people who are technicians and should know better are saying is discouraging.

Frontloaders, particularly nowadays, are basically motor, belt(s) and pulleys (and that's if they don't have just a direct-drive stepping motor). If we forget for a second the Fisher&Paykel-based designs that also have a direct-drive motor toploader, the vast majority of toploaders have much more complicated transmissions and suspensions than the frontloaders. We are just *much* more familiar with toploaders, and a transmission appears as a "simple" blob of metal hiding many gears and complicated stuff inside that needs lubrication (and often fails/dumps oil all over the floor and/or the clothes to be cleaned).

"Electronics" is not an excuse. Sure, they've made a bunch of things more more easily accessible to frontloaders, but they are doing the same job for most of the toploaders for sale currently. Even machines that have a round knob often just have that as a selector and the actual timer is a computer board hidden somewhere.

As for "good ol' times" reliability, LOL, I betcha you don't want that. Most of those machines used to fail more often than the newer ones. Don't take me wrong, I love the old stuff and they are interesting in all kinds of ways *including* what engineers came up with to avoid being sued by patent holders of competing machines, but those mechanical timers are more failure-prone than the computers we now have.

I have a washer and dryer set here that is almost 14 years old, gets used a lot and has not failed yet, despite the heavy use. Don't take me wrong, the *first* time it fails (either washer or dryer) I will *toss* it on the curb. I've been waiting for the darned things to break practically since day one because the manufacturer (which shall remain undisclosed if you don't know us) was one of the "big" ones in America that, instead of investing in R&D and staying ahead of the competition (Europe), chose to badmouth frontloaders with all kinds of things like "leak prone", "too complicated" etc and then, when they found themselves cornered they released crap for nearly a decade. Mine is the second or third "iteration" and, despite that, is jam-packed with bugs, both mechanical and in software, and most of them were to shave off a buck or two in the design/manufacturing. Which leads me to distrust the manufacturer now, but I doubt they care. The *only* reason I have not replaced the set yet is because the vast majority of the newer stuff has dumbed down temps and it's hard to know which manufacturer/model has decent temps like a 140F hot wash.

Don't kid yourself. No matter *which* washer/dryer you have, American, Asian or Euro, or if it's "traditional" or HE, or if it's top loading or front loading, you are at the mercy of seals that can fail and flood your laundry area and small items ending up at the pump. Careful loading can help avoid some of the problem but you are not guaranteed to avoid it completely.

A severely underloaded or overloaded horizontal axis washer can push small stuff like baby socks thru the boot and into the outer tub. It's harder to have it happen in toploaders, but sometimes small items get pushed between the top of the basket and the outer tub thus ending up in the pump -- that often happens when people are not paying attention loading/unloading or the machine is severely overloaded.

Another thing I'd like to put out there is that quality is way harder to define than you think. An awful lot of Euro frontloaders look flimsy but are better engineered where it counts, including electronic boards, but also the door shuts firmly and securely, while you often see American and Asian machines with flimsy doors and fronts that flex when the machine is working, thus making it easier to land socks in the pump area.

If SpeedQueen makes a frontloader that *looks* massive and overbuilt but lets the door flex, it will cause trouble despite the price and appearance. I have not *used* one of their newer machines in ages -- the last time I used one was over 10 years ago (possibly more) when they just introduced them to laundromats and they were not sold to consumers back then. I was not impressed. Unless they changed the machines *a lot*, I would not spend the money on one.

As for the toploaders, sorry, I have bad news too. I used to have an Amana toploader in the early 90's. I got rid of the set (washer and dryer) *before* the warranty wore out so I had no trouble getting buyers to take the set off my hand. That set did not perform well and did not seem like it would last.

Why should you care? Because if you look on the web in general or even search for threads here, there are *plenty* of complaints about those machines, and they seem to still be exactly the same machines that SpeedQueen is now selling. SpeedQueen and Amana used to belong to Raytheon back then. Unless the newer SpeedQueens from 5 years ago or so have been extensively redesigned, particularly the seals, I wouldn't invest in one either.

Remember, what laundromats (or commercial laundries in any case) are looking for is not the same a regular consumer that has only *one* washer+dryer set are looking for. Commercial laundries have many sets and they are looking for stuff that is (cheap + easy) to fix. A lot of laundromats 20 years ago used the GE FilterFlos because the transmissions were a dime a dozen and took next to no time to replace. SpeedQueen and Maytags were also quick, easy and cheap to fix. But almost anyone that has been to laundromats in the last 30 years can remember that most of the frontloaders kept chugging along while a fraction of the toploaders were always "out of service" either because the pump was clogged, the timer was broken or something more serious was going on.

If you have only one washer and one dryer, the equation changes. Unless access to a laundromat is easy and you think it's not expensive, waiting for people to come fix your set can be at the very least annoying.

But looking *just* at frequency of repair is not a panacea either. I have a set that is not the best at anything, it does not clean particularly well, it does not rinse as well as other frontloaders, it takes forever and a day to spin (and many times does not spin at the advertised fast spin, and more than once a year it has "finished" the cycle without spinning). But *hey!*, nearly 14 years and not a *single* repair call.

If you want ideal, you want at the very least two or three sets of washer/dryer, and you want the one with the absolutely *best* performance: put clothes in, press a few buttons, go away, come back, put the clothes in the dryer, press a few buttons, go away, come back to clean dry clothes ready to fold/hang, no stains, no dirt, no missing buttons, no tears or excessive wear. Sure, they may need repair, hopefully simple/cheap ones, once or twice in 15 years or so, but they should make you happy and looking forward to doing laundry as a relaxing experience instead of dreading it.

Attitude does help: friends of mine that wanted to try my equipment before they bought it fell sharply into two neat groups, the group that loaded the washer and had dinner, transferred the stuff to the dryer and had dessert (that group *loved* the set, bought one for themselves and still like them), and the group that watched the things work and how the algorithms failed in different and (not so) interesting ways. That group hated the set and ended up with other brands and models.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
I agree Paulo with much if not all of what you said.
My concern about the electronics is this throws a monkey wrench into the rebuild-ability of seemingly anything it becomes a significant part of.
That is the complexity issue. Yes there are less parts in the overall machine but the motor control board takes things to another level that i, or most can't follow.
When electronics are mass marketed enough, hacks, work arounds, special tools etc all become available to escape the clutches of planned obsolescence the manufacturer has baked into the device...Apple is the obvious example. I can keep our old laptops running no matter what breaks. Youtube is full of videos and Ebay has the parts.
SQ FL washing machines will never be popular enough for someone to create a way to hack the onboard computer to upgrade the firmware or anything like that.
We will have to go to SQ which is already cost prohibitive to rebuilding efforts. What does a main bearing, a door boot, motor brushes and assorted rubber hosing run? Okay you have almost renewed an old machine... now add a new motor control board, Bam! Forget about recycling that one, get another.

I can do all of the work my long out of warranty Maytag Dependable Care will ever require, maybe will have to buy a spanner wrench and a couple of other things like that on Ebay. I can do everything the repair gent did here today when this machine goes out of warranty EXCEPT work on or replace the board...unfeasible and/or too expensive.
This machine has a ways to go until it has done its 100th load...it's on it's third board...WTF?
[this post was last edited: 2/7/2017-23:07]

 

[earthling177]

Robert, I agree with you. And it sucks. I'm sorry you are in this situation at all.

My beef is not that you are wrong or right or anywhere in between.

The problem, from my perspective, is that we are going thru a transition and also the manufacturers feel like the economy is not in a place they understand.

So, on one hand, we have people like our webmaster, that got some kind of kit (Arduino? I don't remember) and wrote his own software to completely control a Frigidaire Unimatic. That gives me some hope that others are out there tinkering and possibly coming up with replacement boards that will be less expensive than OEM parts. Because frankly, most of our manufacturers hung way too long onto obsolete tech so they didn't have to invest in R&D and now they are nearly 30-50 years behind the Euro high-tech standard for laundry equipment. They can probably catch up given that they have ties to their Euro subsidiaries, but I won't hold my breath. Currently, whether I like Electrolux or not is something I will need to wait and see what I think (the only Electrolux equipment I have have nothing to do with laundry, for example), but I'm thankful that they landed here and gave our local industry a giant quick in the butt to start releasing "more current" stuff even if quicking and screaming, because previously Asko and Miele only sold in very small quantities and even Bosch opening a factory in South Carolina was not enough incentive.

On the other hand, given that timers are not only mechanical things, but *delicate* mechanical things (remember when a high-tech country was a country that made good watches and/or sewing machines, instead of computers?) and delicate mechanical things, even when made by the millions, cost more than simple electronics. So, the problem we have now is that timers are not made in as large a volume as they used to in say, 1980's or 1990's. We've seen in places like ThatHomeSite (now GardenWeb/Houzz) and even here, people are beginning to have difficulties locating timers for machines made more than 5 or 10 years ago, and when they find them, it costs an arm and a leg too.

Things like that happen, unfortunately. For the longest time, one could still keep an old Bendix or Westinghouse Laundromat working, because the Pyrex window and the door boots were basically in 2 or 3 standard sizes, so newer machines kept using the same parts and belts too, for example, so they were easy to come by. As machines started changing in the 90's to be bigger and abandoned the old boots and windows, things got more complicated.

If enough people start discarding their current equipment and getting new ones, we might end up in a situation where only laundromats are using electro-mechanical timers and other parts (transmissions for toploaders, for example), which will make those machines harder/more expensive to fix, and the manufacturers will not care much, laundromat owners are in a difficult spot and will have no choice but repair or replace with new stuff, both of which are lucrative to manufacturers.

Anyway, I guess I've rambled quite enough already.

Best of luck!
   -- Paulo.

 

[brucelucenta]

I dunno, after reading ALL of this from the top to bottom, it makes me think perhaps I was right in thinking that speed queen really has some major problems. I mean, most front loaders now days have safeguards to prevent socks or anything else making it's way to the pump and I would be livid if I had this much trouble with a machine I had paid so much for! I don't really know exactly what makes speed queen so heavy duty and supposed to last for years, but if there are weak spots to cause failure what good is being a heavy duty machine? A few service calls and doing without the machine for periods of time and the aggravation would kill any good points about having a speed queen machine, to say nothing of the costs of all this once the warranty is up. LG might be a cheap china made machine, but the front loaders seem to hold up pretty well. Mine certainly has so far in the last 3+ years and I use it all the time. There have been several HORROR stories about experiences with speed queen machines on this site and the servicing that was done on them. I really don't see that speed queen lasts any longer than any other machine. A good case in point is the guy with the 8 y/o top loader who is looking to replace it now after having 2 separate service companies tell him it has multiple problems. 8 years is about average now for a washer I think, depending on how much it is used.

 

[launderess]

SQ's owners manual for front loading washers like nearly every other such machine domestic or commercial clearly states that small items like infant socks can become stuck in door/should go into a mesh bag. Now if persons choose to ignore that advice (am not slamming anyone), that that is their own affair. Hardly think it comes down to any fault of SQ design of machine or otherwise.

The washer did what it was supposed to do; something got into the sump, worked its way into the pump which caused it to jam then motor failed. Am by no means an expert but am fairly certain this is what happens to any motor that is prevented from turning.

We do not know how long the errant sock was in machine/took to work its way down into the sump. Front loading washers with user accessible pumps advise in owners manual that the pump area should be checked routinely and often for small items that may have worked their way down. Again if users fail to follow this advice that is their own affair.

It does seem a bit harsh and IMHO rather unfair to ill informed to slam SQ or any appliance maker based upon a few published reports of issues. No one screams their innocence louder than the guilty, and no one reams appliances publicly more than those with issues they feel were not resolved to their satisfaction. This even when you look at things a good part of those issues can be traced to user errors and or simply expecting something from an appliance it was not designed to do.

Again am not slamming the original poster, but some of the subsequent comments are just off the wall.

In order to brand SQ front loaders a "failure" , having bad design or whatever the scientific way would demand knowing total units sold of a particular model and then number of complaints/issues reported.

It is like Maytag's early Neptune washing machines; yes there were issues with mold but even a stopped clock is right twice a day, many consumers also refused to wipe the door boot and leave the machine open after use.

As for H-Axis washing machines being more technically "difficult" by deign; well yes, that is true and has been for decades. It is one of the reasons behind why such machines cost more than top loaders with central beaters.

Repairs and service; things are what they are, and tough all over. Miele and everyone else is having difficulty finding (and retaining) qualified domestic appliance repair/service persons. That is a reflection on the American job market and education system (among other things) than any fault of individual company.

Not everyone is temperamentally suited to dealing with consumers, especially going into their homes. Adding to this often in a majority of cases the issue involves dealing with the Lad of the House who can be anything from patient and understanding to a dragon or monster.

Not everyone a has the necessary aptitude either to learn and apply that knowledge. Having watched two Miele repairmen replace the suspension springs on my washer in the tight confines of the cubby where located, am here to tell you have a new appreciation for the job. I certainly couldn't have managed the job and going by what others have told me relating to their own experiences with non Miele approved techs neither would many others.

The rot started when appliances went from being "major" white goods to something that was replaced instead of repaired. Outside of warranty work many places don't have much "repair" calls because so many appliances today simply cannot be repaired easily and or the cost is equal to or at least half of buying a new machine.

We here are a special group so it seems hardly fair to judge SQ or other appliance makers based upon our demands/expectations. I personally have put enough money into my "old" Miele washer to have made a substantaial payment towards a new machine. But that is my lot and I've chosen to accept.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
My upset is entirely with the computer board failures.
I fully accept the fault of the pump failure as likely, though not certainly, ours.
The repair man never said that, nor did he even say where he found the sock fragments.
He just said to be careful about "these little rags" not knowing what the pieces of cloth were.
That said it does seem likely to have been the obvious culprit.

But the two failing motor control boards is a far greater concern and where I felt most let down by customer service. I wanted to hear something like, "oh boy two boards ALREADY? Left me check with my manager that is almost unheard of and we need to get to the bottom of it."
Or even, "hold on, who do you have working on this, let me get them on the blower and give them a heads up on the way things are done around here, S-Q-D...sorry about that, they will know what's what after I straighten them out."
Instead I was made to feel the one who had done something wrong, as I have felt in the past when calling SQ, and as others have now that I poke around on the internet.
So I did his job for him in regards to informing the out of the loop dealer, and was verbally sneered at for my trouble.
They don't seem to want to gather information and make things right, they simply act like they already know it's your fault. Simply put they do the opposite of "customer service", it's a dis-service to the customer. They sounded like jaded flak catchers in two of my three experiences with them.
[this post was last edited: 2/8/2017-19:01]

 

[duke]

Where are those boards made & assembled for SQ ?I am seeing more & more simple components failing on circuit boards in my industry (HVAC).Capacitors and relays incorporated into the boards melting,swelling and causing failures.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
The boards are made in Mexico. I snapped a pic of one and posted it here in another thread (see link) when the first board went out a few months ago.

Speed Queen FL on the Fritz, Need Help Troubleshooting

. The machine has all the lights flashing green in unison. It will not fill or operate in any manner. I have: checked the hoses, checked and cleaned the drain, unplugged and replugged in the electrical cord, made sure the door was closed fully, and readjusted the controls (rear control knobs...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[duke]

Sorry brother,Sounds like an internal corporate issue with hands covering their ears.

 

[washman]

<blockquote>
The boards are made in Mexico. I snapped a pic of one and posted it here in another thread (see link) when the first board went out a few months ago.

</blockquote>
boooo hiissssssssss.

 

[combo52]

Oh my where to begin

First of all Robert I'm sorry you had so much trouble, but there was really only one problem here you got a really bad service company.

 

When you called them up and they acted like you had a serious problem right away they have no idea what they were doing, the only problem this washer had this time was a small sock caught in the pump.

 

The water pump had not failed the motor board was not bad.

 

If the guys knew what they were doing they would've taken the obstruction out of the pump and the machine would've worked fine.

 

These water pumps are designed to be jammed the fact that it was hot did not mean it was bad the fact that it was not running did not mean that it was bad the fact that it was hot meant the motor board was still good. Eugene is correct this machine will fill up higher if it goes to the safety level I was wrong about that, and I was also wrong about the fact these newer design machine have not had inlet valve problems I was thinking initially you still have the older style machine which did have a lot of inlet valve failures.

 

Hi Ben, there is nothing wrong with things made in Mexico, these parts are made by American companies to standards at least as good as we build, The motor is in both your Speed Queen top load washer and your dryer were made in Mexico along with the timer, inlet valve and probability many other parts as well.

 

John L.

 

[duke]

Fixed

 

[repair-man]

Made in Mexico or not those motor control boards are failing at a alarming rate. I have changed 8 out of 10 in my 1.5 year old coin op machines.

 

[duke]

Exactly.Made to american standards? Made to barely reach warranty period I find.Read the sides of those square power relays and the round capacitors.Usually china,vietnam etc.Trash

 

[brucelucenta]

If the machines are made in Mexico that sort of shoots the theory of buying something made in the USA. I just can see no advantage to buying speed queen AT ALL now. You pay a premium price, reliability is questionable at best and service is terrible unless you happen to luck out with someone who knows how to repair them! What is the advantage? It is all very disillusioning.[this post was last edited: 2/9/2017-05:19]

 

[washman]

Some clarification bruce

First, the machines are not made in Mexico. Like combo52 stated, various parts are made there. Like the Nidec motor for instance.  If you put google to work, you'll find a facility in Ripon Wisc where over 1400 union brothers and sisters work putting these machines together.

 

Truth be told, you won't find anything as complex as a home appliance "100 per cent" made in the good old US of A.  There simply aren't many companies left making control boards, motors and the like here stateside. It is simply not cost effective. When you combine the manic drive for shareholder value along with the American ethos of "cheaper is better", you cannot make a product entirely stateside and put a price tag on it that the typical American moron will pay. Ain't gonna happen.

And therein lies the rub; We want to pay each other top wages and benefits, but then we trudge off to whatever local BIG BOX resides in our community and buy the cheapest of the cheap. Something is out of whack there if you ask me.  In a perfect world, we'd all sign up with company X, work there for 35 years, collect a pension and ride off into the sunset. We'd all buy american, we'd all buy local, we'd all recycle, we'd all practice thrift, we'd pay as we go, we'd pay cash by saving up instead of signing up for a 0 per cent interest card for 90 days at our local BIG BOX, et cetera.

 

But we don't do that now do we?

 

IIRC, Obama some years ago asked Steve Jobs what could be done to get Apple to make Iphones, Ipods, etc in the US. Steve Jobs replied "those jobs aren't coming back".  And he was right. Our manufacturing base has been gutted to the point that the infrastructure to make the bits and pieces simply no longer exists.   Take Element electronics. Sure they can advertise assembled in US of A, but are you aware that all they do is remove a cover on the back of the Chinese made TV and put a memory chip in there, run some tests, then box it up?   Who is going to invest the tens of millions of dollars in capital to start up a plant to make the TFT screens? You? Me? Answer, nobody.

 

One day at work, I was partaking of a habit which makes me a 2nd class citizen. I was out back, puffing on a freshly lit marlboro when the Buffalo and Erie train went by. It slowed down, stopped for a while. I walked over and looked at the massive bogie assembly on one of the boxcars.  The huge casting that holds the wheels said CHINA in big letters.  I did a little research and found out we no longer have the foundries stateside to cast those parts.  Imagine that. The once mighty arsenal of democracy and here's a freight train box car with made in china bogie assemblies.

 

Some years back, our SVP of merchandising responded to our stores complaints about more and more plumbing fittings (galvanized, black pipe etc) were coming from China and Brazil.  He replied that the imported fittings outsold the domestic ones by a 20-1 margin. He went on to say that while there is a lot of "demand" for US products, there aren't a lot of customers willing to pay the price.

 

I could not have put it better myself.

 

Here's  your assignment if you have the time. Google Gitman. They make men's dress shirts in Ashland, PA. Go look at the price. Get back to me if you are willing to pay that price for a cotton dress shirt. Or are you content with buying whatever is cheapest at the mall?

 

[mtn1584]

HOLY CRAP ALREADY BRUCE!!!

We all know you have a Kenmore/LG set made in Mexico for a Korean company!
WHO GIVES A CRAP!!
It works for you great!!
Have you ever heard the expression 'Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" an entire company does not go to shit just because of a batch of bad boards!! The boards are being replaced under warranty!! ONE top load washer out of many needs replacing after 8 years, so what!!! The overwhelming customer reviews on SQ products are outstanding with a FEW EXCEPTIONS!

BUT YOU ARE BEATING THIS TOPIC TO DEATH!!

Alliance has issues with qualified techs, and some electronic boards, so do other companies, but at least ALLIANCE AND WHIRLPOOL EMPLOY AMERICANS AND THE MONEY SPENT ON THEIR PRODUCTS GO BACK TO AMERICANS!

I would still by a SQ front loader any day because as COMBO52 says they are the BEST MACHINES ON THE MARKET!!!
At least they can be repaired!

You need to find a new topic to talk about!
I'm trying to be nice, but enough already.
I am sure others feel the same way!!!
Mike

 

[brucelucenta]

Then we should boycott for Whirlpool to make the old belt drive machines!!!! And if speed queen machines are the best made in the market, this country is in a lotta trouble.