Speed Queen the Only "Sane" Modern Washer Left?
- Thread starter coreyare
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A good path to take would be
to see what, if any, changes can be made to the unelected DOE?
I can live with, while not agreeing to, the majority rule. In other words, if the marketplace demanded these machines, then so be it.
What I have a philosophical issue with is an unelected body of pencil pushing bureaucrats dictating how much water (which is not in short supply by the way) I use to:
1. Shower.
2. Flush my toilet
3. Do my laundry
Pop quiz time again (I like to use these to see if anyone is paying attention)
Q. What do you call a form of government that issues policy without voter input?
A. A dictatorship.
And that folks is what we have now. It is not a democracy. Far from it. In the real world, far removed from the offices of the DOE, no sane consumer would accept HE TL machines or even HE FL machines. Why? Simple, they do not clean as well as an old school top loader. Period. End of sentence. Full stop. I don't care if you have GM era Frigidaire or a homely Kelvinator from Pre-WCI days, fact is, those old school machines were made that way for decades for one reason. They worked. Not a difficult concept to figure out. No matter what the DOE or some other eco-nazi group wants us to believe, those piles of junk foisted upon a reluctant public are useless. Talk to me about time, will ya? Over an hour to do a friggin load? I thought we were all stressed out from lack of "time" to do the things we want to do. How in god's name does that make sense? When I can do a similar load in an old school SQ, have it in the dryer, and be home in time for corn flakes?
I could live with consumer demand telling Whirltag, GE et al hey, we want more efficient machines. While I may not agree, when the marketplace demands it, I can go along much better than when an unelected bunch of dolts "dictates" policy to me.
I'm a very proud owner of a Speed Queen. I have no affinity to them other than the fact they still produce a washer that leaves me in control of things. Like how much water I use. How long the cycle is. Whether or not I want to use the second rinse option. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how I can have clean clothes with a paltry 15 minutes of agitation whereas a new fangled TL or FL takes over an hour to do the same thing? Then there's the mold issues. The piss poor quality and reliability. The special "cleaning" cycle (an oxymoron if there ever was one).
And this is "progress"? Not hardly. Rather, it is special interest groups bullying their way into the system and forcing the rest of us to comply with their half baked concepts of conservation.
Even if the SQ cleaned half assed, which it doesn't by the way, I would STILL own it just to stick my middle finger in the air in the direction of Washington DC.
Finally, here's one for story time. In 2002 my dear parents retired to sunny Florida. They bought a used home that had some rather strange remodeling done. One thing that was junk from the get go was the toilet in dad's bathroom. It developed a crack from the rim to the floor. It needed to be replaced. Dad already had experience with the eco-nazi approved 1.6 gallon water savers (here we go again) and was dead set against getting another one. So he literally ordered me to get on the internet and find him a *#*#&$& toilet that used plenty of water to move feces and toilet paper into the sewer.
Well I found some...........in Canada of all places. Seems the Canucks at the time had a sensible approach to toilet design and still sold 3.5 gallon units. Hooray! Only problem is there were located in Windsor, Ontario and did not ship to USA.
What to do?
I tell you what I did.
I called them up, ordered it, gave them my CC. 2 weeks later, they said come get it. It was an American Standard with elongated bowl and an insulated tank. Sort of an off white color, bone perhaps, but dad was not concerned at all about the color. I took a Friday off, drove from W Pa in my Suzuki Vitara SUV, crossed over the Windsor bridge, arrived at Windsor Plumbing supply. While I waited for the toilet to be loaded, the two managers laughed and said they sell more toilets to USA residents than Canadian subjects. Well jolly nice. I headed back through USA customs on the Detroit side. The customs agent asked if I had a water closet in the back. Sure did, was my reply, then I added, My mother is into alternative landscaping. He laughed and told me to get the hell out of here!
How did it get from PA to FL? Well dear old dad wanted to visit so he gassed up his 2000 Dodge Intrepid and drove up. We spend a few days going out, shooting, and watching the tube. Then he headed back to sunny FL had the toilet installed and never looked back. It is still there, dutifully removing human waste and toilet paper. And it has yet to see Korky the plunger provide "assistance".
Moral of the story is this: When I say screw the government, I am serious. Which is why I have a Speed Queen in the first place!
to see what, if any, changes can be made to the unelected DOE?
I can live with, while not agreeing to, the majority rule. In other words, if the marketplace demanded these machines, then so be it.
What I have a philosophical issue with is an unelected body of pencil pushing bureaucrats dictating how much water (which is not in short supply by the way) I use to:
1. Shower.
2. Flush my toilet
3. Do my laundry
Pop quiz time again (I like to use these to see if anyone is paying attention)
Q. What do you call a form of government that issues policy without voter input?
A. A dictatorship.
And that folks is what we have now. It is not a democracy. Far from it. In the real world, far removed from the offices of the DOE, no sane consumer would accept HE TL machines or even HE FL machines. Why? Simple, they do not clean as well as an old school top loader. Period. End of sentence. Full stop. I don't care if you have GM era Frigidaire or a homely Kelvinator from Pre-WCI days, fact is, those old school machines were made that way for decades for one reason. They worked. Not a difficult concept to figure out. No matter what the DOE or some other eco-nazi group wants us to believe, those piles of junk foisted upon a reluctant public are useless. Talk to me about time, will ya? Over an hour to do a friggin load? I thought we were all stressed out from lack of "time" to do the things we want to do. How in god's name does that make sense? When I can do a similar load in an old school SQ, have it in the dryer, and be home in time for corn flakes?
I could live with consumer demand telling Whirltag, GE et al hey, we want more efficient machines. While I may not agree, when the marketplace demands it, I can go along much better than when an unelected bunch of dolts "dictates" policy to me.
I'm a very proud owner of a Speed Queen. I have no affinity to them other than the fact they still produce a washer that leaves me in control of things. Like how much water I use. How long the cycle is. Whether or not I want to use the second rinse option. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how I can have clean clothes with a paltry 15 minutes of agitation whereas a new fangled TL or FL takes over an hour to do the same thing? Then there's the mold issues. The piss poor quality and reliability. The special "cleaning" cycle (an oxymoron if there ever was one).
And this is "progress"? Not hardly. Rather, it is special interest groups bullying their way into the system and forcing the rest of us to comply with their half baked concepts of conservation.
Even if the SQ cleaned half assed, which it doesn't by the way, I would STILL own it just to stick my middle finger in the air in the direction of Washington DC.
Finally, here's one for story time. In 2002 my dear parents retired to sunny Florida. They bought a used home that had some rather strange remodeling done. One thing that was junk from the get go was the toilet in dad's bathroom. It developed a crack from the rim to the floor. It needed to be replaced. Dad already had experience with the eco-nazi approved 1.6 gallon water savers (here we go again) and was dead set against getting another one. So he literally ordered me to get on the internet and find him a *#*#&$& toilet that used plenty of water to move feces and toilet paper into the sewer.
Well I found some...........in Canada of all places. Seems the Canucks at the time had a sensible approach to toilet design and still sold 3.5 gallon units. Hooray! Only problem is there were located in Windsor, Ontario and did not ship to USA.
What to do?
I tell you what I did.
I called them up, ordered it, gave them my CC. 2 weeks later, they said come get it. It was an American Standard with elongated bowl and an insulated tank. Sort of an off white color, bone perhaps, but dad was not concerned at all about the color. I took a Friday off, drove from W Pa in my Suzuki Vitara SUV, crossed over the Windsor bridge, arrived at Windsor Plumbing supply. While I waited for the toilet to be loaded, the two managers laughed and said they sell more toilets to USA residents than Canadian subjects. Well jolly nice. I headed back through USA customs on the Detroit side. The customs agent asked if I had a water closet in the back. Sure did, was my reply, then I added, My mother is into alternative landscaping. He laughed and told me to get the hell out of here!
How did it get from PA to FL? Well dear old dad wanted to visit so he gassed up his 2000 Dodge Intrepid and drove up. We spend a few days going out, shooting, and watching the tube. Then he headed back to sunny FL had the toilet installed and never looked back. It is still there, dutifully removing human waste and toilet paper. And it has yet to see Korky the plunger provide "assistance".
Moral of the story is this: When I say screw the government, I am serious. Which is why I have a Speed Queen in the first place!
Politics and automatic washers don't mix
IMHO.
Your opinion is greatly appreciated ( I hear you loud and clear on many points for what that is worth) However, I don't think Speed Queen wishes to get mixed up in a political campaign. They just want to sell products.
I also don't think it is fair to the webmaster either for many reasons.
Let's have fun and enjoy what we know and what we know are appliances.
nuff sed.
IMHO.
Your opinion is greatly appreciated ( I hear you loud and clear on many points for what that is worth) However, I don't think Speed Queen wishes to get mixed up in a political campaign. They just want to sell products.
I also don't think it is fair to the webmaster either for many reasons.
Let's have fun and enjoy what we know and what we know are appliances.
nuff sed.
I went downstairs just now
Stood in front of the SQ for a few. Had a cig. Feel better now.
The only unfair aspect is what is forced on consumers. Nothing is unfair to the webmaster on this thread. Nothing at all.
Will do another load tomorrow, I know I will feel 100% back on track afterwards.
Now let's see......do I use Tide, A&H, or Sears Powder? Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Stood in front of the SQ for a few. Had a cig. Feel better now.
The only unfair aspect is what is forced on consumers. Nothing is unfair to the webmaster on this thread. Nothing at all.
Will do another load tomorrow, I know I will feel 100% back on track afterwards.
Now let's see......do I use Tide, A&H, or Sears Powder? Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Nothing is unfair to the webmaster on this thread. -- Then it looks like we need to check the rules. Let's go over the Forum Topics as are printed into the rules:
Deluxe Forum:
The Deluxe Discussion Forum for topics relating to modern/current automatic washers, dryers and dishwashers made less than 20 years ago, thru today and beyond.
Dirty Laundry:
A donating member only forum for discussion around any off-topic subject that might be controversial such as Politics, Religion, Sexual Overtones, etc.
Ben while I agree with a few of your points, your post is clearly a political rant and it does not belong in the Deluxe forum. If you want to discuss politics then you are going to have to upgrade and post them in Dirty Laundry. This is it now, no more heavy duty political talk in the public forums please. A small mention of is fine once in a while, but this is way overboard.
Thank you.
Deluxe Forum:
The Deluxe Discussion Forum for topics relating to modern/current automatic washers, dryers and dishwashers made less than 20 years ago, thru today and beyond.
Dirty Laundry:
A donating member only forum for discussion around any off-topic subject that might be controversial such as Politics, Religion, Sexual Overtones, etc.
Ben while I agree with a few of your points, your post is clearly a political rant and it does not belong in the Deluxe forum. If you want to discuss politics then you are going to have to upgrade and post them in Dirty Laundry. This is it now, no more heavy duty political talk in the public forums please. A small mention of is fine once in a while, but this is way overboard.
Thank you.
Re:
Never thought to use threadlocker in that sense, but I may have to consider putting some on mext time as it wont self-adjust. xD
That would be interesting to attempt to try a physics simulation of the spin-draining action on a washer and compare it to a neutral draining machine.
I've considered in theory that the concept of a spin drain would be as you said a method of reducing production costs, but also an attempt to flush any scum that has accumulated near the top, but this has been disproven by a youtuber opening up his maytag and having all kindsa gunge built up near the top of the machine. So in turn a neutral drain may be a good posibility, but thats an extra module and accessories to add to the production line. Some washers from youtube videos I have seen, actually spray rinse just as the water comes towards the top upon spin draining I guess to attempt to flush and dispurse the floating soap scum and soil.
The new DD actually did introduce a spin drain and some folk said it was to avoid scum build up in the tub, as it was a mere spin pawl thingus that would engage the spingear upon the motor turning clockwise, however WP cheesed out on this machine as they made the spin gear out of nylon or some plastic stuff, and the extra stress on the spin gear would eventually lead to it shearing and not allowing hte machine to spin, so then WP rigged in a buncha doohickies to make it ND upon the washer agitating for several minutes to "reset" the neutral drain pak, This works great although there does exist the problem of the ND pak wearing and spin draining upon draining even after agitation. Then there also exists the occasional bad agitate cam which lead to agitation and spinning at the same time.
Oh yes, that is a posibility that I have theroized on as well, simply drain half the wash water, and then refill and not even spin for the "rinse" cycle, its a good idea in my mind as it would save energy and water, but im not sure how it would perform in the real world. :O
All in all, its gonna be a chore chainging that main seal when it goes bad :O!
Never thought to use threadlocker in that sense, but I may have to consider putting some on mext time as it wont self-adjust. xD
That would be interesting to attempt to try a physics simulation of the spin-draining action on a washer and compare it to a neutral draining machine.
I've considered in theory that the concept of a spin drain would be as you said a method of reducing production costs, but also an attempt to flush any scum that has accumulated near the top, but this has been disproven by a youtuber opening up his maytag and having all kindsa gunge built up near the top of the machine. So in turn a neutral drain may be a good posibility, but thats an extra module and accessories to add to the production line. Some washers from youtube videos I have seen, actually spray rinse just as the water comes towards the top upon spin draining I guess to attempt to flush and dispurse the floating soap scum and soil.
The new DD actually did introduce a spin drain and some folk said it was to avoid scum build up in the tub, as it was a mere spin pawl thingus that would engage the spingear upon the motor turning clockwise, however WP cheesed out on this machine as they made the spin gear out of nylon or some plastic stuff, and the extra stress on the spin gear would eventually lead to it shearing and not allowing hte machine to spin, so then WP rigged in a buncha doohickies to make it ND upon the washer agitating for several minutes to "reset" the neutral drain pak, This works great although there does exist the problem of the ND pak wearing and spin draining upon draining even after agitation. Then there also exists the occasional bad agitate cam which lead to agitation and spinning at the same time.
Oh yes, that is a posibility that I have theroized on as well, simply drain half the wash water, and then refill and not even spin for the "rinse" cycle, its a good idea in my mind as it would save energy and water, but im not sure how it would perform in the real world. :O
All in all, its gonna be a chore chainging that main seal when it goes bad :O!
Nylon Spin Gear In WP DD Washers
This was done to make the gear case quieter during spin, WP built over 100 MILLION DD washers and is actually still building two popular 24" and 27" stack machines with the cast iron DD transmission.
I have NEVER seen a single failure of this nylon gear.
Maytag also used a plastic pinion gear in EVERY automatic washer they ever built going back to their first automatic in 1949 and AGAIN I have never seen one of these gears fail.
Plastic is one of the best things that ever happened to Automatic Washer Production and in most cases when a part was changed from metal to a plastic material the durability of the machine became better.
John L.
This was done to make the gear case quieter during spin, WP built over 100 MILLION DD washers and is actually still building two popular 24" and 27" stack machines with the cast iron DD transmission.
I have NEVER seen a single failure of this nylon gear.
Maytag also used a plastic pinion gear in EVERY automatic washer they ever built going back to their first automatic in 1949 and AGAIN I have never seen one of these gears fail.
Plastic is one of the best things that ever happened to Automatic Washer Production and in most cases when a part was changed from metal to a plastic material the durability of the machine became better.
John L.
Plastic pinion gear
I have to agree with John on the plastic pinion gear: I've stripped down gearboxes for various Simpson's and Wilkins Servis's (which use the Maytag gearbox) here in Australia and have seen a metal pinion gear in a Simpson transmission completely worn down, but NEVER in either transmission's where they have the plastic pinion gear.
Cheers
Leon
I have to agree with John on the plastic pinion gear: I've stripped down gearboxes for various Simpson's and Wilkins Servis's (which use the Maytag gearbox) here in Australia and have seen a metal pinion gear in a Simpson transmission completely worn down, but NEVER in either transmission's where they have the plastic pinion gear.
Cheers
Leon
Ah, I stand corrected, but I have seen a few tubers have videos of worn spin gears :O
Don't believe everything you see/read on the Internet. A large percentage of it is just the CB on TV...
Ah then yes I definitely have become schoooled, its just I had this thought of the metal gears transferring the heat load more effeiecently than the plastic, and simply being overall more durable.
Certainly I would have to make some kinda experiment...
But plastics have certainly improved despite the evolution of metalurgy
Certainly I would have to make some kinda experiment...
But plastics have certainly improved despite the evolution of metalurgy
One thing to recall
Is until 1980 or so, SQ used the famous Arc-C-Cuate transmission in millions of washers both commercial and domestic applications and these machines had a better than average reputation for dependability. Only when Raytheon took over did quality decline but it appears it is on the upswing now that Alliance Laundry is in control of things.
Is until 1980 or so, SQ used the famous Arc-C-Cuate transmission in millions of washers both commercial and domestic applications and these machines had a better than average reputation for dependability. Only when Raytheon took over did quality decline but it appears it is on the upswing now that Alliance Laundry is in control of things.
"I have NEVER seen a single failure of this nylon gear."
Iv'e seen lots of stripped spin gears in DD gearcases. These are not nylon by the way. Iv'e even seen one where a section of the gear broke completely off. The plastic agitate cam can also wear to the point that the agitate gear does not completely disengage and Iv'e seen this numerous times as well as the failed spin gears in addition to worn spin pawls that don't function properly.
Iv'e seen lots of stripped spin gears in DD gearcases. These are not nylon by the way. Iv'e even seen one where a section of the gear broke completely off. The plastic agitate cam can also wear to the point that the agitate gear does not completely disengage and Iv'e seen this numerous times as well as the failed spin gears in addition to worn spin pawls that don't function properly.
DDs gear boxes were tough but after 20 years of use they tended to just eventually break up.
Iv'e seen stripped spin gears and worn agitate cams in DD's half that age and even some less than 10 years old. I think it just depends on how heavily used they are and how overloaded with clothes. Overloading washing machines is about the worst thing you can do to them.
DirectDriveDave
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2011
- Messages
- 456
DD Transmission
Ours is 23 years old, and still does exactly what it should, including neutral drain, every time. There are less people in the house now than there used to be, and it was manufactured in 1989, so, maybe that's part of it.
Ours is 23 years old, and still does exactly what it should, including neutral drain, every time. There are less people in the house now than there used to be, and it was manufactured in 1989, so, maybe that's part of it.
Over loading will do just about anything to a machine. But, a DD that was used with care will last, common failures only being the motor coupler and clutch. I hope you get more out of your DD, 23 years of performance is a sign of taking care of the machine that was built to last to start with. The second generation of DDs (the ones right after the spin drainers) easily went 20 plus years. I know of some 1989 Kenmore DDs still chugging along with only a simple motor coupler. The tub seals to were bullet proof. A leaking DD is actually pretty rare.
@washman:
I don't blame him. The washer is worth its weight in gold.
Just reading the comments, do these really have that many issues with the timers? I will admit Ive read threads on here about AWN532s getting stuck in spin because the motor doesn't start correctly. Kind of why I went for the AWN412 because its simpler, but would you know if the U tube claims are true?
I don't blame him. The washer is worth its weight in gold.
Just reading the comments, do these really have that many issues with the timers? I will admit Ive read threads on here about AWN532s getting stuck in spin because the motor doesn't start correctly. Kind of why I went for the AWN412 because its simpler, but would you know if the U tube claims are true?
