I started watching some videos of front load cycles to see how they stack up to what I use now. It seems to me that the Whirlpools waste a lot of time distributing the load before the final spin. Do all front loaders on the market do this, or is this just a Whirlpool thing?
Spin Distribution
- Thread starter wishwash
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I think they're all about the same, although our current Affinity FL seems to perform a much longer balancing act than our Duet did.
The only exception to this that I'm aware of is Speed Queen. Per the comments posted by John L. and others, SQ FL machines don't mess around and launch into spin relatively quickly.
The only exception to this that I'm aware of is Speed Queen. Per the comments posted by John L. and others, SQ FL machines don't mess around and launch into spin relatively quickly.
there can be a variety of factors as to why a machine may jump right into a spin, while others play around trying to find that sweet spot.....
you can that same load in ten different machines, and get ten different answers....
I do know that my Frigidaire Gallery, after I increased the water level, stopped having balancing issues, one or two reverses, and then takes off.....
you can that same load in ten different machines, and get ten different answers....
I do know that my Frigidaire Gallery, after I increased the water level, stopped having balancing issues, one or two reverses, and then takes off.....
I'm not really sure why they spend so much time on this. I've seen an he2t in action which spent probably 5-10 minutes re-balancing only to give up and have a shaky spin anyway. Isn't this the exact problem that supposedly damages the machine?
I have a Kenmore (LG) FL and if I had to say something I disliked about it I think it would be how it spins. There's just no rhyme or reason. I've had a load full of denim jeans go into spin relatively quickly while whites (t-shirts, towels and sheets) makes the machine hesitant into spinning. Sometimes it will distribute, ramp up and spin only to stop and start over. It doesn't bother me or my wife a lot, it's just a minor annoyance.
Oh, my other small annoyance would be when it fills. Rapid on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off, on for a short few seconds, off again and then it fills. Don't know why it does this instead of a straight fill. Within a week of getting the FL, I went and bought hammer arrestors.
Oh, my other small annoyance would be when it fills. Rapid on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off, on for a short few seconds, off again and then it fills. Don't know why it does this instead of a straight fill. Within a week of getting the FL, I went and bought hammer arrestors.
Our Duet did the on/off fill too. They marketed it as a "catalyst" wash system where the contents were tumbled in a super concentrated solution that became diluted as the on/off filling sequence continued.
Our Affinity seems to use the spin bursts as a way to lighten the load and facilitate balancing in advance of a longer spin. Sometimes though, it can't even balance well enough to do a burst spin and will give up and start filling for the next sequence. Only in extreme cases does it give up on attempting a final spin and shut off without executing one. It has only done that a few times in the nine years we've had it, and it was always when washing throw rugs which now are laundered in the trusty Maytag A712 with the Gentle/Fast wash and spin options selected.
Our Affinity seems to use the spin bursts as a way to lighten the load and facilitate balancing in advance of a longer spin. Sometimes though, it can't even balance well enough to do a burst spin and will give up and start filling for the next sequence. Only in extreme cases does it give up on attempting a final spin and shut off without executing one. It has only done that a few times in the nine years we've had it, and it was always when washing throw rugs which now are laundered in the trusty Maytag A712 with the Gentle/Fast wash and spin options selected.
washerdude
Well-known member
Owning a WP duet WFW72 (which i have now left behind) and I can say, on most loads, it balances very quickly and would do it in seconds. And other times it would go into a more in depth balancing protocol. Where the tub would go back and forth like seen in the video, this is very helpful for untangling items. On a certain comforter, which was thin, but got heavy with water, it would tangle during the balancing phase and cause the tub to bang. The washer would shut off and the tub would rotate in each direction (as in the video) for a few spins, then continue balancing and then took off. This method works wonders for untangling articles at a important point in the cycle.
washerdude
Well-known member
And on the other hand, Samsung FL's are incredibly fussy when it comes to balancing. But they also only turn in one direction when it comes to balancing. If one direction fails, then the tub turns in the opposite direction and repeats until a balance it found, which most of the time, can't manage to do it right on its first attempt.
Re:reply #4
I had an LG 3170 that did just what you are describing. But mine sometimes took 3 hrs to complete a load with this pointless hunt for a sweet spot to spin. And I also needed to get water hammer arrestors.
This burst filling process is a waste of time too. I guess its LG’s attempt to minimize water usage, but to me its a waste of time. You’re going to use the water anyway, why not just let the machine add the required amt. all at once. If the machine senses the need for additional water, it can always add some more, but add the majority of the needed water at the beginning.
I couldn’t even use the heavy soil level on the cotton cycle. It literally would tumble for 30 mins. with the center of the load not even damp, let alone wet, then as if an after thought in the last 5 mins. it would fill with enough water to finally wet the load, but trust me, there was no splashing going on. I used it this way for 15 mos. before I said enough is enough and got rid of it.
I like FL washers, but until they start to operate more closely to the way they used to I’m not interested in owning another new FL.
Eddie
I had an LG 3170 that did just what you are describing. But mine sometimes took 3 hrs to complete a load with this pointless hunt for a sweet spot to spin. And I also needed to get water hammer arrestors.
This burst filling process is a waste of time too. I guess its LG’s attempt to minimize water usage, but to me its a waste of time. You’re going to use the water anyway, why not just let the machine add the required amt. all at once. If the machine senses the need for additional water, it can always add some more, but add the majority of the needed water at the beginning.
I couldn’t even use the heavy soil level on the cotton cycle. It literally would tumble for 30 mins. with the center of the load not even damp, let alone wet, then as if an after thought in the last 5 mins. it would fill with enough water to finally wet the load, but trust me, there was no splashing going on. I used it this way for 15 mos. before I said enough is enough and got rid of it.
I like FL washers, but until they start to operate more closely to the way they used to I’m not interested in owning another new FL.
Eddie
norgeway
Well-known member
Another reason
I like. Westinghouse laundromat s and. Bendixes. Wham bam and its spinning no fiddling around wasting time
I like. Westinghouse laundromat s and. Bendixes. Wham bam and its spinning no fiddling around wasting time
speedqueen
Well-known member
Hans, what you just said gave me a thought, what if some manufacturer of FL machines were to take a cue from the old WP/KM combos in the '60s and incorporate BOTH a suspension and the water ballast balancing system they used.
Instead of waiting forever for the load to be perfectly balanced, balance the tub. With a suspension that WP couldn't have because of Bendix's patents, almost all vibration would be mitigated and a modern 1200 RPM speed should be attainable.
With modern tech water ballasting wouldn't be too hard to execute. It would get rid of this drawn out balancing charade that most modern machines do. The best ideas of old combined.
Instead of waiting forever for the load to be perfectly balanced, balance the tub. With a suspension that WP couldn't have because of Bendix's patents, almost all vibration would be mitigated and a modern 1200 RPM speed should be attainable.
With modern tech water ballasting wouldn't be too hard to execute. It would get rid of this drawn out balancing charade that most modern machines do. The best ideas of old combined.
gusherb
Well-known member
The number one thing I truly abhor about modern design washers is the time they waste "balancing" themselves. It's just unbelievably aggravating to sit there and watch it "fail" to go into spin several times, and if the suspension is getting worn or it's an unusual load it could sit there all god damn day trying to balance itself. When I got my SQ I practically popped open a bottle of champagne to celebrate that when it goes into spin it goes into spin and that's it.
Miele washers balance fairly quickly. But even the 24" models weigh 220 lbs., don't have gigantic drums and ideally require a stable, concrete floor.
Having recently just been under the bonnet so to speak of my OKO-Lavamat you begin to understand the palaver around spin distribution.
Compared to the Miele the AEG (and one assumes this goes for many others) are literally "toys". There is simply not a lot to them structurally so that it won't take much unbalanced spinning to wear things out.
Miele washer of old and even new are substantial pieces of kit. Tub suspended by four heavy springs. Automobile grade shock absorbers, the famous cast iron cradle, and heavy duty bearings/seals add up to a washing machine that is near commercial quality. As such Miele washers are known for being able to spin under even the most challenging loads. It may not like it, and or one shouldn't allow things to go on long enough the washer bashes itself to bits, but there you are.
Everyone else relies more upon avoiding even moderate to perhaps light unbalanced loads it seems. Thus reducing strain, wear and tear.
Compared to the Miele the AEG (and one assumes this goes for many others) are literally "toys". There is simply not a lot to them structurally so that it won't take much unbalanced spinning to wear things out.
Miele washer of old and even new are substantial pieces of kit. Tub suspended by four heavy springs. Automobile grade shock absorbers, the famous cast iron cradle, and heavy duty bearings/seals add up to a washing machine that is near commercial quality. As such Miele washers are known for being able to spin under even the most challenging loads. It may not like it, and or one shouldn't allow things to go on long enough the washer bashes itself to bits, but there you are.
Everyone else relies more upon avoiding even moderate to perhaps light unbalanced loads it seems. Thus reducing strain, wear and tear.
The maddening thing about the Duet I had was that it might balance beautifully and ramp up to spin, but the water coming out of the fabrics would trip the flood switch which shut down everything but the pump which was too weak to handle the large volume of water as it was spun out. Then it struggled to rebalance everything that had fallen from the tub walls. It was a question of if there were misfeasance, malfeasance or no feasance in designing the machine. If a load were balanced, the machine could have been designed so that the tub could maintain a distribution speed during the pump-out and resume spinning. I like the SQ's and Miele's approaches to distribution for spinning. The more sophisticated variable speed motor in the W1986 has a feed back loop that slows it if there is a huge amount of water being spun out of the load or if the load is not well distributed. It will continue at a lower speed and gradually accelerate as the situation improves. Very often a not-well-distributed load lightens greatly as the water is spun out at slower speeds and can continue on to spin a full speed. I still remember the drama of the Milnors that instantly shifted up to distribution speed before opening the drain valve and how evenly distributed the load was for spin. I wish home machines could have done that.
cfz2882
Well-known member
cabrio's method...
noticed my '10 VMW will stop,refill and run an extra rinse if it cannot balance-this is the only way this He washplate machine can redistribute...Seems to try two extra rinse cycles and if that doesn't do it,runs a lower RPM spin,perhaps ~500 RPM
noticed my '10 VMW will stop,refill and run an extra rinse if it cannot balance-this is the only way this He washplate machine can redistribute...Seems to try two extra rinse cycles and if that doesn't do it,runs a lower RPM spin,perhaps ~500 RPM
Brendon
I used to have one of these 10’ Cabrios, and mine would refill over and over and over again attempting to balance itself so it could complete the rinse portion of the cycle. If I didn’t keep an eye on it this would have gone on forever. The load that always caused a problem was 2 bath towels, 2 hand towels, about a dozen washclothes and 2 or 3 pairs of jeans, all evenly distributed on loading, but the Cabrio would unfailingly manage to unbalance this type of load.
I never had this kind of experience before with any other washer. This machine didn’t last too long in our home, too much babysitting for me for a washer that was supposed to be automatic.
Eddie[this post was last edited: 12/20/2017-14:21]
I used to have one of these 10’ Cabrios, and mine would refill over and over and over again attempting to balance itself so it could complete the rinse portion of the cycle. If I didn’t keep an eye on it this would have gone on forever. The load that always caused a problem was 2 bath towels, 2 hand towels, about a dozen washclothes and 2 or 3 pairs of jeans, all evenly distributed on loading, but the Cabrio would unfailingly manage to unbalance this type of load.
I never had this kind of experience before with any other washer. This machine didn’t last too long in our home, too much babysitting for me for a washer that was supposed to be automatic.
Eddie[this post was last edited: 12/20/2017-14:21]
F&P has optional refill for redistribution but only does it once as I recall.
Neptune TL also does it (can't be disabled), possibly twice before asking for help.
speedqueen
Well-known member
TL Redistribution
Now if they would only beef up the suspension a little there wouldn't be this much trouble on HE TL machines. I'll never understand why they choose to have that free moving basket other than cost cuts.
Now if they would only beef up the suspension a little there wouldn't be this much trouble on HE TL machines. I'll never understand why they choose to have that free moving basket other than cost cuts.
