Stain Removal Tests: UK Ariel (P&G) and Persil (Unilever)

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The company that makes SA8 is still known as Amway in the UK; here is their website. Unfortunately, unlike Quixtar (which is US version of the company) it doesn't appear you can order online. You'd have to find one of their direct sales people.

Amway in the UK.....hmmmm......wasn't that a song by the Sex Pistols?

"Am-a-way in the UK
Coming some time
It might be..."

 
SA8

Hi Friglux,
Thank you for your enjoyable tests I always enjoy them.

Yes unfortunately Amway does not sell directly on their UK site, there is a site for Amway IBOs (Independent Business Owners) but I don't think they sell to the general public; the site is being updated so I can't find out.
I hate the brainwashing tactics etc. employed when dealing with Amway sellers IBOs. My advice is just say a firm NO to the so called "Business opportunity" and make it clear you only want to buy the product.

David

 
I'd be interested in one other test

Could you try one like this :

Just add chlorine bleach on its own, no detergent at all.
And another with just oxygen bleach, no detergent at all. I'd be interested in seeing how they perform.
 
One cannot compare oxygen bleach verus chlorine bleach because they simply are not the same in terms of whitening/stain removing.

Chlorine bleach will remove protien and discolor orgainc/tannin based stains in five minutes or less, even in cold water. Times are much faster the higher the water temperature increases.

OTHO oxygen bleach, if percarbonate will bleach in cold water but needs long contact times. Perborate alone will not bleach well at all in cold water, but activated perborated bleaches can but again need long contact times. All oxygen bleaches have an increase in bleaching power by about 20% or each 10 degrees in water temperature. To achieve the whitening/stain removal power of chlorine bleach with oxygen bleach in the same amount of time, the water temperature would have to be in excess of 150F or higher.

As for difference between European detergents versus North American, will say that in general the later are designed to work under high diluted conditions (high water levels found in top loading washing machines), with short cycles (again top loading washing machines), both condition suit the primary way most Americans wash laundry, in top loading machines. Tide for instance uses the perborate bleach activator NOBS, which is quite aggressive,but made to work in the rather short amount of time top loaders have for an average wash cycle. In Europe the primary bleach activator is TAED, which is slower acting thus suited to longer wash cycles. It should be noted many versions of Persil and other detergents are moving away from perborate bleaches, thus the need for activators and to sodium percarbonate bleach, which does not need an activator as it will bleach in warm and cold water.

As for dilution ratios when using UK/European detergents in the United States, one must remember most parts of Europe have water hard enough to chip teeth. Even the hardest American water would be "soft" by European standards,thus one can use less, much less detergents.

Being as all this may, our first front loader was a Malber that did not heat water, and had rather "short" cycles. Persil by Henkel worked well, but saw no differnece say between it and Wisk tablets or Tide HE. Certianly not enough of a difference to warrant the cost. OTHO when using Persil Megaperls in the Miele, difference is striking. Because the machine fills with either cold or warm water, then heats to hot, along with long wash times it is a true "European" wash cycle, the conditions Persil was designed for and most used under. One tablespoon or less of Persil Megaperls will clean a 5Kg load in my Miele without any additional additives.

Think of it this way: detergents like Tide are "sprinters", in that they have to use all their energy quite quickly to run the race. Persil and other European detergents have along race to run thus pace themselves to provide power until the end.
 
Dear Launderess

Thanks for all the information; I know it's something you've had to repeat, and I appreciate your taking the time to reiterate. I still may try a detergentless test with hot (140F) water and chlorine bleach, and another with hot water and all-fabric bleach just to see what they do on their own.

I gather from your post that chlorine bleach works quite independently of detergent in a wash cycle. Does all-fabric bleach need the detergent to 'activate' it, or does it usually have its own activators (where required) thus making it able to do its job independently of detergent, as well?

In other words, a test with just hot water and LCB may show us what LCB does on its own, but is it pointless to do a test with hot water and all-fabric bleach without a detergent to assist it?

Love,
Frigilux
 
All bleaches work best with some sort of surfactant to help them penetrate fabrics/stains. Both chlorine and oxygen bleaches work best in an akaline environment, which is why LCB contains sodium hydroxide and most oxygen bleaches are blended with washing soda. Sodium percarbonate, since it is made from washing soda however, will work pretty well on it's own.

In general, yes chlorine bleach does not need detergent to bleach, which is why commercial laundries run a separate cycle after the wash to do their chlorine bleach bath. This is actually more effective for sanitising as well, as much of the organic matter/germs have been washed away,leaving what is left for the bleach to tackle. Oxygen bleaches by themselves merely rely on releasing oxygen in water, and again would work well in bleaching fabrics in a bath if that is all one wished to do, such as restoring an old cloth that has yellowed.

If you are going to test oxygen bleaches, to be fair you should use pure form of the substances. Most oxygen bleaches sold for domestic use contain surfactants, builders, and other chemicals. The new "Biz" bleach even states on the box one could use it instead of detergent for doing laundry.
 
For sure...

I´ll net you knwo the results.
Today I´m gonna soil 4 sheets with the stainskinds.

Tomorrow i´ll wash the first one.

I think I need time for 2 weeks.
 
Laundress, it's impossible to generalise about European water hardness to be honest.

There is an issue with very hard water in parts of London and Southeastern England and also in parts of Germany, but it's by no means universal.

E.g. the water in most of the populated parts of Ireland is very soft as it comes primarily from areas with granite bedrock. E.g. the water in Dublin and Cork cities is very soft.

Same is true in many other parts of the EU, it's very difficult to make a sweeping generalisation about water.

In general, in areas with extremely hard water you have to use an additive to ensure that your washing machine does not become clogged up with lime scale. Or, alternatively, install a filter system (increasingly common)

I wouldn't necessarily think that US and EU detergents are formulated very differently in regard to water hardness. The US versions would also have to be capable of coping in US hardwater areas too.

Much of the US highly populated parts of the US Eastern seaboard has rather hard rocks that don't cause hardwater, but there are many other areas with chalkier bedrock that would make them prone to very hard water too.

I get the impression that the detergent makers just formulate a single 'one size fits all' detergent. If they didn't the likes of Tide etc would be useless in areas with hard water.

Most EU detergents simply have dosing instructions based on water hardness. The harder the water, the more detergent you add.
 
Stains are ready..

This eveneing my parents were out and I had time to prepare the stains.

I have 28 differnet stains on 2 sheets.

I´ll wash the first one tomorrow at 60° with pre wash and Ariel.
 
Nino---Looking forward to your test results! You are really testing a lot of different stains; That is excellent. Be sure to write down the order of the stains on the sheets so you can tell which ones were removed by the detergent.
 
I finally broke down and bought a box of SA8 detergent and the TriZyme booster....It has become my fave detergent... out cleans Tide and the standard which I use to judge all others...German Persil. I bought the 25 load boxes and I was surprised at how little I needed to get a good sized load clean in the Maytag Neptune. My whites were very white....I also used the SA8 all fabric bleach powder and the Fabric softener which surprisingly is very nice to the nose.
Great tests...the triZyme booster is a very good mate for the detergent...I am impressed so far with the results.
 

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