staying alive - why companies build our appliances as they do

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panthera

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This thread is an attempt to discuss the profound changes which have taken place in our appliance world over the last few decades.
Quality? Profit? Price? Outsourcing? Foreign machines? Replacing proven designs with the same-old same-old? New ideas? Water/energy savings? Greedy managers versus investors and employees? Capitalism? The Peter Principle?
Last days of Rome...
Whatever, as long as it has to do with the changes and how they have come about...
 
The 80's were a bridge to obsolesance

I noticed that when I was a kid, in the 70's,we went to Sears for alot of things, and in my region, Fred Meyer.Things were made of metal and in the USA.When Regonomics came along and said yes to big business and big profit.Do you realize that GE washers were produced with cardboard backs in the 80's.That is not safe, I believe that the entire world as we know it shifted.By the end of the 80's at my house, we went from Chevys to Hondas, and made in Chicago,Ill to Hong Kong, and from dependable to expendable. My take on it.
 
quality and price

Anyone who reads my posts can't help but notice that I am very critical of the way US manufacturers are building our appliances these days.
Some folks agree, others feel I am naive or simplistic in my point of view.

Perhaps just a bit of background:

I teach at a local technical university. At the same time, I run a translating business. The majority of my clients come to me with advertising or contract texts which have to be translated correctly, in context - and against tight deadlines. Perfect and five minutes too late can cost my clients (and me!) enormous sums of money.

This I have been doing since 1989.

When I am critical of business practices, please keep this in mind. I am an independent businessman working in a demanding, highly competitive, increasingly global business sector (successfully) and not some ivory-tower professor who has no idea what the real world is like.
This does not change the fact that my ideas may be simplistic; I grew up in the traditional capitalistic belief that markets only prosper over time through value addition.

Gasp!

I do think this was the basis for earning money which most US firms applied up till the late 1970's: They wanted to make money, so they took raw materials, enhanced their value and sold them at profit. At the same time, they felt a commitment to remaining in business, providing their investors with a return on their investment and a general belief that it is good to make lots of money over time through doing business.

Today's US appliance producers seem motivated by one thing: Short term profits for the managers. Serving their stakeholders (customers, employees, suppliers, investors - yeah, those nasty folks who have risked their shirts to give the managers money to play with. Ought to hang them, we should, these risk takers...) is irrelevant to them. Making a short term profit, bankrupting the investor's capital investment, screwing the consumers in the process and parachuting out when the whole thing takes a dive (their gold parachutes float so beautifully to land) is their sole definition of business.

My background, my perspectives on the current situation.

Opinions, anyone?
 
That's a reason why I'm a fan of German appliances - Miele in particular. Still build the machines like they used to, although I have to admit even some of the German manufacturers seem to have slipped, seeming as our Bosch lasted just over 3 years and that AEG is moving production out of Germany next year.

Jon
 
Coupon Mentality

US citizens have become obsessed with finding the cheapest price. Even assuming a buyer is brand loyal, the buyer still follows the store or supplier with the cheapest price.

In the process of walking away from brand and supplier loyalty it is a cluster #*^% trying to attract the buyers attention.

We want our burgers under a dollar, ripe tomatoes year round, appliances that never need a repair and don't pass our price point or we leave you on the shelf and in chapter 11.

We crucify high school kids working at Jack in the Box when someone gets sick, string and quarter the farmer that put chemicals on a tomato in the dead of winter and piss and moan over plastic washers.

To add to the madness, make sure everything you use and do is eco friendly and coolants, lubricants, plastic parts and other basic manufacturing materials don't perform the same.

Most stores sell at a loss and make the profit in coupons and seller incentive programs.

The industry, on a whole is upside down, which is evidenced with the financial crisis that plagues Sunbeam, Maytag, Whirlpool and many other brands.

If we were willing to spend as much comparatively, on appliances as we spend on espresso and cell phones there might be a shift.

Kelly
 
Plastic

And Philips/Bauknecht used cheapest plastic on some of their TLs for the back right through the early 1980's.
I don't think fibreboard, in and of itself is so dreadful, it seems fine on the back of a radio or TV. But on a washing machine it just seems a bit, hmm, silly. Or maybe it was waterproofed? The frames of those GEs were, after all, not dependent upon this back plate for stability.
 
It seems to me that the big transition from high quality products to junk happened in the early eighties. Why? It would seem to me that as a society, we want the latest and newest and trendiest. As a whole, quality does not seem to be anywhere near the top of the list; if it were, no one would buy anything new unless forced to. Manufacturers know what motivates consumers to buy, and they see big profits. Sadly, we are turning into a disposable society. Why fix it if you can have a fancy new one at an affordable cost? Why would any manufacturer build anything to last if they can get a fast sale $$$$$? On any trip to a dump or appliance graveyard I am amazed at the amount of "new" appliances to be scrapped. The oldies but goodies are much fewer.
Bobby in Boston
 
Disposable Mentality

In an effort to reduce costs, manufacturers have learned OTC programs are cheaper than operating authorized repair outlet facilities, inventory and employeees/benfits.
That was a consumer driven result. If there was a way to make money and build customer loyalty through service, rest assured Companies would be all over it, like white on rice.
A secondary result of that decision is, repair and parts are harder to find and it is forcing owners out of older machines and into replacements, bolstering the concept.
At one time, the US required parts and service be made available on machines for a period of time following their manufacture.
There are current models of Kitchenaid and Sunbeam small appliances, still for sale in stores and on line, for which parts and service have been obsoleted. If it is under warantee you get a replacement, but not like the one you purchased or wanted.
When stoves with defective oven clock controls cost $350.00 , washing machine timers at $200.00 and dryer motors or sensors at $175.00 installed, you can buy a replacement, on sale for the same or little more. Maybe even a discontinued model? Who in their right mind repairs.
I used to buy what I considered to be the best quality in any product I brought home. Which amortizes to the best end, an $85.00 plastic upright vacumm every five years or a $1,300.00 model with chrome and substance that may require a $200.00 repair in seven yearsand last fifteen?
As much as it hurts my heart and after 30+ years of stewarding used appliances into adoption, I can't stem the flow.
I nearly bankrupted myself in the noble but indefensible process.

Kelly
 
Kelly,
Sad, but true. You can't change what is. I'll hold onto my oldies but goodies until I can't repair or scavenge parts. Most people don't have the patience or the know-how to do this.
Bobby in Boston
 
Great points...

of which I am in agreement.

And I TOTALLY agree that the CONSUMER is just as much to blame as the manufacturers. Mixfinder's Coupon Mentality assessment is completely correct. I see this time and time again, even with my family and friends. All I hear is this cheap price mentality.

This is why WalMart is so popular. Yes they do have name brand stuff mixed in, but alot of it is junk. Yes there are one or two knowledgable people there, but let's face it, it is not a service oriented place. Yet people go there in droves. It seems now it is more popular to buy a cartload of junk that you don't need than to buy one item that is high quality.

On another website I actually had an argument with a guy who said I was "stupid" because I will go to Nordstrom to buy men's dress shirts because of the superior fit, comfort and wear. He said that he could buy shirts that were just as good, in a three pack, for $20 at Walmart (I don't know what kind of dress shirts come in a "three pack", but whatever). So there you have it. A generation of people that cannot see a distinction between price and value. For most people nowadays, price IS value. It doesn't matter if the items wear out early or break. When I have argued this point to others, I have gotten the response that "your idea of value doesn't match others'". Well, duh.

A guy across the street from where I used to live called my Craftsman tools "overpriced". Yet he was always breaking his tools. I used to hear him curse when his wrench would break and he would ask to borrow one of my tools. I still have my Craftsman tools from my very first set in 1980. He has probably spent twice as much in tools and again as much in frustration and time to replace bad ones. But I am a fool to buy quality, right?

So manufacturers have to respond. There is a price point that customers will not pay beyond. There goes the lighted controls, special fun panels, different colors, or anything else that makes appliances fun or special, because it is all about that price point. This of course was always a consideration in retail, nothing new here, but now we have a fickle consumer who has no idea--or care--about value. Instead, they buy into the "cheaper is better" mentality, and they believe in the disposibility of things.

Don't get me started on cordless phones. I honestly think we have had about 10 of them in the past 10 years!
 
Nordstroms

When I shopped at Jacobson's in the midwest and Nordstrom, here in Seattle, I had salemen who remembered me, sent me cards, notified me of sales on items I may have been interested in and set back new merchandise that accessorized my wardrobe.
When I bought Appliances at Dystra's or Shaw's I brought them freshly baked goods from my range and they knew me. I would just call on the phone and have items delivered with out even a signed contract or cent of money.
When I bought my Maytag range at Home Depot, last summer, I practically had to beg them to sell it to me and it took over an 1 1/2 for it to released from inventroy so that I, ME could carry it home, MYSELF.
I miss relationships in sales, shopping assitance in stores, grocery baggers who carried out the order and attendants who filled the tank and washed the window.
The joy and pleasure when one drinks of the Milk of Human Kindness.

Kelly
 
About service---

There used to be an independednt, locally owned and operated pharmacy here in Kent. We never had a prescription filled any place else. They were in business from 1875 to 2004.

They had house accounts, they had DELIVERY at no extra charge. They even would compound.

Because of the price mentality, and the pressures from insurance companies, they could no longer compete.

Now, we have chain pharmacies here. Walgreen's. CVS. Rite-Aid, and a 60 some unit Ohio based chain, Discount Drug Mart. Do any of these have house accounts? Do any deliver? (of course, seeing as how I don't currently own a car....)

I MISS SERVICE. I deeply dislike most big box stores, and try not to patronize them, however futile that is.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Big Box (not in a good way)

The losses compound in life quality experiences.

An old friend of mine, in her 90's, once said, "Life wouldn't be so hard if someone would take the day shift?

It is the lack of enhancements that make the process harder for me.

I find renewal from this group, in the values we share, the intrinsic and subjective parts of life. Difficult to assess, but essential to satisfaction.

Kelly
 
the manufacturing/advertising industry has trained the American public to buy *suff*, and buy it often. the subliminal message of advertising is, if you dont buy lots of *new* stuff, and buy it often, you are not popular/relevant/exciting/sexy/fun/contemporary. would our grandparents have spent the money we spend on Starbucks coffee and video games and cell phones and cosmetics and clothes? next time you turn on the TV or open Vogue or Details magazine, remember this: their ONLY purpose for existing is advertising. why is TV such a popular american passtime? advertising.
 
Another factor not mentioned but I believe to be perhaps the worst is easy credit and the profliferation of credit cards which were almost non existant 40 years ago to the majority of poeple other than the department store issued ones. Even those cards were like gold and I don't think people used them frivolously to buy small items or a multitude of items like they do now. They were more likely to be used to buy big ticket white goods or tv/stereos. However the advent of Mastercard and Visa changed all that and all of a sudden anyone could have a credit card and spend freely and that's what I believe has been the downfall. I can't speak for other western countries but the US and Canada are both nations of debt ridden consumers. Nobody wants to wait/save up for anything, get it now. I've been mucho guilty of it myself and racked up credit debt in the past. My parents on the other hand never ever bought anything on credit, never, not counting a house mortgage. Not even cars. If they couldn't pay for an item outright we didn't have it. Of course growing up I would bug the bgeezesus out of them for stuff but they never relented. We didn't go without though in fact we had many electrical appliances like an automatic washer dryer, self defrosting GE fridge in the early early 50's all paid for with cash. My dad would say to my deaf ears any fool can go out and buy a new color tv on a credit card but if I want to I could go out and buy 10 of them for cash, something to that effect anyways.. Didn't make me feel any better at the time when we were heading to being the last in the neighborhood to have a color tv. They only got their first credit card back in the late 80's I believe when it was no longer possible to book hotels or rental cars without one. Now that I'm much older I believe them and I also believe easy credit has been the root cause of what's happening today. If people didn't have it, they'd have to actually think twice about making a purchase and they'd want something that would last.
 
I get very frustrated with the American belief that globalization is making their lives worse and that its not the US Companies fault. IE losing jobs, shifting production off shore, quality and standards etc etc. If the US companies were innovating more, then globalization wouldn’t be happening in the US on the scale it is. I think a prime example of a company who has innovated, and in the US still builds reasonable appliances is Whirlpool.

For example, the US/GM loyalists are up in arms, that Toyota has come in and is slowly but surely becoming the number one seller of cars. They're too narrow minded to see that due to complacency and no R&D, the cars that GM/Ford and Chrysler make are out of date, and haven’t changed significantly since the 1980's. This is where the profits vs product quality argument could ring true, however my understanding is, that due to the cost of retirement commitments, GM has had a huge axe hanging over it for years in this regard, In theory the extra money should've gone towards this. But it would appear that it's all become profit.

I know that Keven sees whirlpool as an evil empire, however what they've done in the US was innovative. For now I'll focus on the TL washers and we'll forget about the crap that is most of the euro product line.

In the late 70's everyone was requiring more for less because all Americans wanted it all NOW. To stay competitive, Whirlpool took a hugely complicated machine design, that would've taken hours in comparison to build, and designed a machine that could be fully assembled/disassembled in minutes rather than hours. Is it as good as a BD machine, probably not, but it still lasts on avg 10-15 years, doesn’t suds lock, has reasonable water usage, good cleaning ability when not overloaded, and is simple to repair. That’s an example of innovation improving the product for the same or a lower price.

To look at GM/Fridgidare. Based on how the sale/acquisition to WCI occurred, I would suggest that when the 1-18 was released, its days were already numbered. Instead of innovating, they just tried to cheapen the design and as such the machine became failure prone, with leaking bellows, damage to bearings due to water damage, undersized clutch. Then the recirculation system was poor, the basket hard to clean.

At this stage I think the cost cutting was to try and remain competitive rather than to increase profit. The machines prior to the 1-18 would've been very heavy with the solid outer tubs, required far more procelanisation etc. So by the end of the 70's GM would've been no longer attracting new buyers, brand loyalists would still be purchasing the machines, but compared to the 10yo machine they were replacing, it would've been a disappointing step down.

GM would've realized that they were losing money and due to the cost cutting measures of the early 70's to redesign their whole product line would've been hugely expensive and I would guess that after 10 years of cheapened rather than innovating products, there was rapidly becoming a wary market. So rather than face the millions involved in redeveloping a product line, that was always going to be expensive to manufacture and still have weaknesses, they sold it off.

Boo Hiss, every says, however the WCI machines, had a much simpler transmission, and while not instantly, could in the long term be sold at a lower price point and still get the required 5-10 years lifespan. This is where you have to decide who to lay the blame with, was it GM or the American Public? GM Could've kept building premium products ala Miele for example, but the American public would've needed to be prepared to pay for it. In a world where items are disposable, and you always need the newest and prettiest, the majority are rarely going to purchase a high cost item as it takes too many years to pay for itself.

To look at what happened with the Australian market in the late 70's, it was really only Whirlpool and Hoover that suffered. Simpson kept powering on with its updated design for ages, with no loss in reliability.

Whirlpool made the BD machines in AU under license by Malleys LTD. In the late 70's Malleys was sold to the Email Conglomerate, who already made Westinghouse, Kelvinator, and by the early 80's Simpson. The license to build the BD whirlpools wasn’t transferred, so Whirlpool as a brand disappeared until 1990.

Hoover carried on, until in the 80's Maytag decided to relaunch hoover as a low end product and introduce Maytag to the market as a premium product. However to make the hoovers a low end product, they cheapened rather than innovated, and they became fragile machines. This seems to be the trend that Maytag followed, in its quest for world domination :) and profit. Maytag is example of a company who just kept trying to increase profits, to the detriment of the product.

Email with the Simpson on the other hand innovated, the machine became cheaper to build, but still just as reliable. The machine still uses Masonite for the back panel and its never caused any issues. Its just an inspection opening after all. The machines now feel very lightweight, but its still reliable and when you buy one, you know it'll last up to 10 years.

What does my huge diatribe mean to me?

To stay competitive and to feed the "I want it now" now market that grew, companies had to either cut costs to the detriment of the product, or innovate. Those that have innovated still make a reasonable quality product but now at a price the public is willing to pay and they accept that they have to sell more products and a slightly reduced profit.

Those that cheapened the design to try and increase profit, have now mainly been bought up by bigger companies, the designs have either been killed off, or in Maytags case, unsuccessfully used to try and cheapen their own product lines with a view to make more profit. Once they hit rock bottom, they too have now been aquired.

Initially I don’t think the companies set out to build a crap product that made them huge profits, they cheapened it to stay competitive with those who innovated. However once they cheapened the design in a negative sense, and didn’t innovate, it was the start of a downward spiral.
 
In response to brisnat81

I get very frustrated with the American belief that globalization is making their lives worse and that its not the US Companies fault. IE losing jobs, shifting production off shore, quality and standards etc etc. If the US companies were innovating more, then globalization wouldn't be happening in the US on the scale it is.

I think most Americans would agree that offshoring and price-cutting are being driven by US companies. We just find it frustrating that these moves seem to benefit the management of these companies, and nobody else. Workers, customers, and even shareholders seem to get the raw end of the deal.

How, exactly, does the Average Joe communicate to Corporate HQ that quality is important? We vote with our dollars: Hence the success of Toyota and Honda in the car market. However, I'm continually frustrated to see that many US companies don't recognize that inevitability. In the process, they destroy the trust that buyers, employees, and investors placed in their company names.
 

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