Still looking for help KDS21

[easup]

Please help. We want to keep our KDS21 going.

Our KDS 21 KitchenAid dishwasher is 1985 ish,. Could someone please identify what broke here? There was undrained water and these metal bits were in the water.
Can it be fixed? Thank you for your time.

Liz and Jim

 

[jil1000]

Please help. We want to keep our KDS21 going.

Our KDS 21 KitchenAid dishwasher is 1985 ish,. Could someone please identify what broke here? There was undrained water and these metal bits were in the water.
Can it be fixed? Thank you for your time.

Liz and JimView attachment 322432

Those pieces look to be from the motor brush assembly.

The two short rectangular pieces are carbon motor brushes, and the curved metal piece is the brush spring or retainer.

The KDS-21 uses a brushed drive motor. When the brushes wear out and break apart, the motor loses contact and stops running, which causes the dishwasher to stop washing and draining. That’s why you found standing water in the tub. This is a common age-related issue on 1980s KitchenAid machines.

The fragments likely came from the motor/pump area and made their way into the tub during operation.

This is usually repairable. The motor should be removed and the commutator inspected. If it’s smooth and not badly burned, the motor can often be saved by replacing the brushes or having the motor rebuilt. These dishwashers are very well built and worth fixing.

 

[pstehle]

How in blazes would motor brushes get into the water in the wash cavity? Honestly, I've been out of the loop for quite a while, never knew KA used brush type motors. Seems dumb, noisy, high maintenance... What was wrong with the old 3 wire ones?

 

[jil1000]

How in blazes would motor brushes get into the water in the wash cavity? Honestly, I've been out of the loop for quite a while, never knew KA used brush type motors. Seems dumb, noisy, high maintenance... What was wrong with the old 3 wire ones?

 

[Chetlaham]

I don't mean to come across as bashing anyone but reply #2 sounds like the OP's posts was fed through AI analysis and a reply was generated from there based on that. My apologies ahead of time if not the case.

KDS-21s from the 80s never used a brushed motor. Such a motor would be to fast for the relatively massive impellers, plus the brushes and main seals would wear out too quickly.

 

[phillymatt53]

I don't mean to come across as bashing anyone but reply #2 sounds like the OP's posts was fed through AI analysis and a reply was generated from there based on that. My apologies ahead of time if not the case.

KDS-21s from the 80s never used a brushed motor. Such a motor would be to fast for the relatively massive impellers, plus the brushes and main seals would wear out too quickly.

That is correct.
KDS dishwashers used a capacitor run or start capacitor induction motor.

 

[combo52]

Unusual parts found in the bottom of a KDS 21 KitchenAid dishwasher

I can’t identify those parts from the picture. I have no idea if they’re even part of the dishwasher. What kind of metal are they made out of they look more like some sort of hard plastic or vinyl material that got hard.

Hobart designed KitchenAid dishwashers never used a brush motor and they never used a capacitor run or capacitor start induction motor either.

They used a fairly standard type of split phase motor early ones used to start relay, and then they went to an internal centrifugal switch and by the 21 series they went back to an external start relay.

This type of split phase motor tends to be very reliable while being very inefficient uses a lot more power than necessary for what it does. They tend to put off a lot of heat because of the inefficiency.

Hobart KitchenAid dishwasher Motors always used ball bearings which tended to be more accurate so the seals lasted longer as result. Hobart Motors also had a stainless steel motor shaft which made the pumps much more rebuildable.

About the only other dishwasher with a split phase motor that used ball bearings was whirlpool however, whirlpool did not use a stainless steel shaft.

One of the things that made D&M dishwashers so bad was the sleeve bearings in the motor which is kind of crappy when you get a motor that’s running 3450 RPMs, GE‘s cheap sidewinder dishwashers also just had sleeve bearings along with many other brands of cheap dishwashers.

John L

 

[phillymatt53]

Unusual parts found in the bottom of a KDS 21 KitchenAid dishwasher

I can’t identify those parts from the picture. I have no idea if they’re even part of the dishwasher. What kind of metal are they made out of they look more like some sort of hard plastic or vinyl material that got hard.

Hobart designed KitchenAid dishwashers never used a brush motor and they never used a capacitor run or capacitor start induction motor either.

They used a fairly standard type of split phase motor early ones used to start relay, and then they went to an internal centrifugal switch and by the 21 series they went back to an external start relay.

This type of split phase motor tends to be very reliable while being very inefficient uses a lot more power than necessary for what it does. They tend to put off a lot of heat because of the inefficiency.

Hobart KitchenAid dishwasher Motors always used ball bearings which tended to be more accurate so the seals lasted longer as result. Hobart Motors also had a stainless steel motor shaft which made the pumps much more rebuildable.

About the only other dishwasher with a split phase motor that used ball bearings was whirlpool however, whirlpool did not use a stainless steel shaft.

One of the things that made D&M dishwashers so bad was the sleeve bearings in the motor which is kind of crappy when you get a motor that’s running 3450 RPMs, GE‘s cheap sidewinder dishwashers also just had sleeve bearings along with many other brands of cheap dishwashers.

John L

Yes, corrected, I should have said "Split Phase".
I can hear that centrifical switch click off as the motor winds down.