The BIG Question
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Handwash-only wool & US Toploaders
Just curious : can a modern brushless motor US toploader manage handwash-only woolens without shrinking them ?
FL do it, but it is no more the "old school" float wash (that shrunk wool), rather something like wetcleaning
Maybe only impeller machines (Oasis/Cabrio/Bravo) can do it ?
Just curious : can a modern brushless motor US toploader manage handwash-only woolens without shrinking them ?
FL do it, but it is no more the "old school" float wash (that shrunk wool), rather something like wetcleaning
Maybe only impeller machines (Oasis/Cabrio/Bravo) can do it ?
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Clean wool in a TL to this . . .
I must confess, I don't own wool. Hence I have never tried to clean it. Most of my sweaters are acrylic or cotton yarn, those I use the gentle cycle and lay flat to dry.
I must confess, I don't own wool. Hence I have never tried to clean it. Most of my sweaters are acrylic or cotton yarn, those I use the gentle cycle and lay flat to dry.
sudsman: Just for clarification, I was not gripping about commercial front loaders. I have no space to own one. But personal front loaders are no comparison to commercial ones as the commercial ones must have way bigger tubs and therefore use more water.
When my Mom had a top loader, she used Wool-Lite and I never heard her complain about her wool sweaters and such.
And by a stroke of luck, I may have found a mid 70s Maytag 806 in white not far from where I live for $50. It appears to be in excellent condition. If it is, I will probably go ahead with the sale of the 2140 for $500. It has a main wash cycle, a drain, 1 minute spray rinse, full tub rinse, drain, and spin AFAIK. It probably uses about 40 gallons to do this if the tub is set to the highest setting.
HEY! There is a thought. Not all loads in a top loader are full. If it takes 20 gallons to fill the tub, then a mid-sized load would be about half that. So I'll say 11 gallons. Filled again for rinsing and the spray rinse would be another 12-13 gallons or so. ~25 gallons for a top loader is very acceptable.
When my Mom had a top loader, she used Wool-Lite and I never heard her complain about her wool sweaters and such.
And by a stroke of luck, I may have found a mid 70s Maytag 806 in white not far from where I live for $50. It appears to be in excellent condition. If it is, I will probably go ahead with the sale of the 2140 for $500. It has a main wash cycle, a drain, 1 minute spray rinse, full tub rinse, drain, and spin AFAIK. It probably uses about 40 gallons to do this if the tub is set to the highest setting.
HEY! There is a thought. Not all loads in a top loader are full. If it takes 20 gallons to fill the tub, then a mid-sized load would be about half that. So I'll say 11 gallons. Filled again for rinsing and the spray rinse would be another 12-13 gallons or so. ~25 gallons for a top loader is very acceptable.
2140
WasherFan, I've got to point out that you're seemingly judging front-loaders from your experience with one of the least expensive, most basic models sold in the U.S. I can't imagine going back to a top-loader after owning a Miele W4840 for a few months.
WasherFan, I've got to point out that you're seemingly judging front-loaders from your experience with one of the least expensive, most basic models sold in the U.S. I can't imagine going back to a top-loader after owning a Miele W4840 for a few months.
supremewhirlpol
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2009
- Messages
- 2,134
If you were creative, you could create your own 3 phase power supply. A hard-mount commercial front loading washing machine means BUSINESS when it comes to the extract part of the cycle.
Americans "Obsession" With Germs
Was born out of very good reasons.
Before science revealed the exact cause, transmission, and prevention, there were many, many diseases that ravaged the population. Also since this was before antibiotics, sulfa drugs, and other modern day "miracle" cures, a simple cut or scrape could turn into an infection that lead to death.
Polio
TB
Thyphoid Fever
Influenza (especially the great pandemic of 1916)
And so on.
The best defense was thought to be a good offense. Hence proper Amercian housewife saw it as her moral duty to protect her house and family from disease. This meant keeping all and sundry clean as possible.
When it came to laundry, Europeans favoured boiling their wash over "Eau de Javel" or other forms of chlorine bleach for a very simple reason. Most all linens bed, body, personal, household and so forth was just that, made from pure linen. Chlorine bleach will do serious damage to linen fibers, so it was avoided at all costs. The quality of European housewives, housekeepers and the rest of the wealthy went to great lengths to make sure their fine linen was not subjected to bleach.
OTHO cotton, which grew in the United States, and was abundant, replaced linen for most if not all purposes. More so after the southern states began to grow and produce the stuff en masse via slave labour. Cotton while also a cellouse fibre like linen, can withstand chlorine bleaching.
On both sides of the pond, boiling was done to laundry AFTER it had been soaked for several hours and or soaped. In short it was done to shift soils without all that beating and scrubbing. Boiling also killed vermin and germs, but we're not on that right now.
When washing machines came upon the scene, boiling started to die off as part of routine laundry in the USA. However Europeans still had all that linen, and favoured high temperatures for washing regardless. When Henkel invented Persil with oxygen bleach, it cemented high temperature washing in Europe until rather recently. The favoured method of bleaching in the wash for Europeans was with perborate bleaches. Sodium perborate will not begin to release oxygen until temps reach about 60C, and the action is greater the higher wash temperatures go. Hence all that boil washing.
Was born out of very good reasons.
Before science revealed the exact cause, transmission, and prevention, there were many, many diseases that ravaged the population. Also since this was before antibiotics, sulfa drugs, and other modern day "miracle" cures, a simple cut or scrape could turn into an infection that lead to death.
Polio
TB
Thyphoid Fever
Influenza (especially the great pandemic of 1916)
And so on.
The best defense was thought to be a good offense. Hence proper Amercian housewife saw it as her moral duty to protect her house and family from disease. This meant keeping all and sundry clean as possible.
When it came to laundry, Europeans favoured boiling their wash over "Eau de Javel" or other forms of chlorine bleach for a very simple reason. Most all linens bed, body, personal, household and so forth was just that, made from pure linen. Chlorine bleach will do serious damage to linen fibers, so it was avoided at all costs. The quality of European housewives, housekeepers and the rest of the wealthy went to great lengths to make sure their fine linen was not subjected to bleach.
OTHO cotton, which grew in the United States, and was abundant, replaced linen for most if not all purposes. More so after the southern states began to grow and produce the stuff en masse via slave labour. Cotton while also a cellouse fibre like linen, can withstand chlorine bleaching.
On both sides of the pond, boiling was done to laundry AFTER it had been soaked for several hours and or soaped. In short it was done to shift soils without all that beating and scrubbing. Boiling also killed vermin and germs, but we're not on that right now.
When washing machines came upon the scene, boiling started to die off as part of routine laundry in the USA. However Europeans still had all that linen, and favoured high temperatures for washing regardless. When Henkel invented Persil with oxygen bleach, it cemented high temperature washing in Europe until rather recently. The favoured method of bleaching in the wash for Europeans was with perborate bleaches. Sodium perborate will not begin to release oxygen until temps reach about 60C, and the action is greater the higher wash temperatures go. Hence all that boil washing.
Wool Shrinking/Felting
In order for wool to shrink one must have at least two factors:
Heat
Agitation
If one keeps wash water temperature to 80F or lower, one can toss and turn wool much as one likes, and it will not shrink. However it isn't wise nor required to launder wool longer than five minutes.
Wool can be washed in hot or even boiling water, long as it is not moved, it will not really shrink. Before the advent of modern disenfectants, wool blankets and the like that came into contact with "infected" persons was routinely boiled as part of the laundering process.
Felted wool is nothing more than wool that has been washed in hot or boiling water and moved about to cause shrinkage.
Wool also does not like sudden extreme changes in water temperature when laundering. This caused a problem when pure soaps were used for washing wool, as most would not work in cold water. Using warm water for the wash, then shifting to cold for the rinse could "shock" wool fibers and they would shrink. To avoid this it was often suggested to keep the wash and rinse waters the same or near the same temperature. However once SLS based "wool washes" came upon the scene (read Woolite), which worked in cold water, one could wash a wool sweater safely without "shrinking, stretching, or fading". (LOL)
In order for wool to shrink one must have at least two factors:
Heat
Agitation
If one keeps wash water temperature to 80F or lower, one can toss and turn wool much as one likes, and it will not shrink. However it isn't wise nor required to launder wool longer than five minutes.
Wool can be washed in hot or even boiling water, long as it is not moved, it will not really shrink. Before the advent of modern disenfectants, wool blankets and the like that came into contact with "infected" persons was routinely boiled as part of the laundering process.
Felted wool is nothing more than wool that has been washed in hot or boiling water and moved about to cause shrinkage.
Wool also does not like sudden extreme changes in water temperature when laundering. This caused a problem when pure soaps were used for washing wool, as most would not work in cold water. Using warm water for the wash, then shifting to cold for the rinse could "shock" wool fibers and they would shrink. To avoid this it was often suggested to keep the wash and rinse waters the same or near the same temperature. However once SLS based "wool washes" came upon the scene (read Woolite), which worked in cold water, one could wash a wool sweater safely without "shrinking, stretching, or fading". (LOL)
vintagesearch
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2006
- Messages
- 554
frontloaders or toploaders?
thank god there only a choice i know some Fl'ers can be amazing but given some can have computer board failures, must use special detergent, and they all take very long to wash, is why i dont like them! but i would maybe buy one maybe the longer there out on the market the better the technology gets i like our old (99 2000ish) kenmore and its used if you think TL'ers dont clean well ours does one hell of a job and its pretty decent with timing i dont care that its not spun at 800 or 2000 rpms! i hang dry them and keep going there dry when there dry! and since i use common sense and care i dont have any clothes that are "shredded" or holy!!! and wool i do wool and dry clean fabrics in the washer! and NO SHRINKING i use the handwash/casual setting cold water and hang dry my parents adore me for it i save them 100 of dollars in dry cleaning!!!!! anywho to each there own in the end and with all my preference to TL'ers in this house i think a he TL'er or FL'er would be a better fit!
thank god there only a choice i know some Fl'ers can be amazing but given some can have computer board failures, must use special detergent, and they all take very long to wash, is why i dont like them! but i would maybe buy one maybe the longer there out on the market the better the technology gets i like our old (99 2000ish) kenmore and its used if you think TL'ers dont clean well ours does one hell of a job and its pretty decent with timing i dont care that its not spun at 800 or 2000 rpms! i hang dry them and keep going there dry when there dry! and since i use common sense and care i dont have any clothes that are "shredded" or holy!!! and wool i do wool and dry clean fabrics in the washer! and NO SHRINKING i use the handwash/casual setting cold water and hang dry my parents adore me for it i save them 100 of dollars in dry cleaning!!!!! anywho to each there own in the end and with all my preference to TL'ers in this house i think a he TL'er or FL'er would be a better fit!
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
~The best defense was thought to be a good offense. Hence proper Amercian housewife saw it as her moral duty to protect her house and family from disease. This meant keeping all and sundry clean as possible.
New York City made a conscious decison to provide "free" (UNMETERED) water to all of its residents and businesses to prevent the spread of disease with such a large populous living in such close proximty to each-other.
This has only recently (decades) changed. Water is still considered to relativley plentiful and inexpenive in this area.
Most lanlords provide cold and hot water without charge. Most also don't alow washers in rental apartments. For those that do, NYC rent regualtions IIRC allow a charge of $13.82+/- per apartment per month in rent-stabilized and rent-controlled units. Rough neighborhoods don't have laudry rooms (i.e. coin-operated) in the basement; it is a liablity and safety issue waiting to happen.
New York City made a conscious decison to provide "free" (UNMETERED) water to all of its residents and businesses to prevent the spread of disease with such a large populous living in such close proximty to each-other.
This has only recently (decades) changed. Water is still considered to relativley plentiful and inexpenive in this area.
Most lanlords provide cold and hot water without charge. Most also don't alow washers in rental apartments. For those that do, NYC rent regualtions IIRC allow a charge of $13.82+/- per apartment per month in rent-stabilized and rent-controlled units. Rough neighborhoods don't have laudry rooms (i.e. coin-operated) in the basement; it is a liablity and safety issue waiting to happen.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I need to clairfy after Laundress's definition. My mother's "linens" are mostly 100% cotton, and she bleaches the hell out of them. Only a very few cherished tableclothes and dinner napkins are actual linen. These are not bleached, but are washed in hot to very hot water.
Linen fabrics
Thanks Launderess,
your post about linen fabric in Europe is very interesting.
It points out :
- why our vintage FL had the cooldown before draining main wash water
- why they didn't spin after the main wash but only after the 2nd rinse
- why vintage FL were better built than today "el cheapo" FL. My mother still has several linen sheets she herited from her grans (so they are about 1915sh). They survive nearly a century of boilwashes but a couple of Candy washers had been destroyed by those heavy "monsters" when they were spun. Today only the mieles can manage such heavy sheets without any "disease"
Thanks Launderess,
your post about linen fabric in Europe is very interesting.
It points out :
- why our vintage FL had the cooldown before draining main wash water
- why they didn't spin after the main wash but only after the 2nd rinse
- why vintage FL were better built than today "el cheapo" FL. My mother still has several linen sheets she herited from her grans (so they are about 1915sh). They survive nearly a century of boilwashes but a couple of Candy washers had been destroyed by those heavy "monsters" when they were spun. Today only the mieles can manage such heavy sheets without any "disease"
Cotton pretty much killed off linen production and use in Europe, which was once the capital of the stuff.
Once "easy care" cotton became widely available and affordable, housewives and pretty much everyone else were more than happy to shutter all their linens in those huge cupboards and lock the doors. This is true even of some of the most beautiful monogrammed, and embroidered pieces. Today of course those cupboards and linen closets are opened only mainly to sell off the contents. Ebay, estate/chateau sales, flea markets and so forth up and down Europe are full of linen by the chest fulls.
Fine old linen, even some modern stuff does not do well in today's modern washing machines. Have seen beautiful linen sheets that have survived for decades if not centuries, turned to shreds in a matter of a year or less because of harsh laundering.
IheartMaytag:
What was it you needed to clear up that one left out, or maybe I shouldn't ask? *LOL*
Once "easy care" cotton became widely available and affordable, housewives and pretty much everyone else were more than happy to shutter all their linens in those huge cupboards and lock the doors. This is true even of some of the most beautiful monogrammed, and embroidered pieces. Today of course those cupboards and linen closets are opened only mainly to sell off the contents. Ebay, estate/chateau sales, flea markets and so forth up and down Europe are full of linen by the chest fulls.
Fine old linen, even some modern stuff does not do well in today's modern washing machines. Have seen beautiful linen sheets that have survived for decades if not centuries, turned to shreds in a matter of a year or less because of harsh laundering.
IheartMaytag:
What was it you needed to clear up that one left out, or maybe I shouldn't ask? *LOL*
aquarius1984
Well-known member
Has to be an FL all the way.
Crank up those temperatures!
95/60/50/40 and never any lower.
Only whites for my line.
Crank up those temperatures!
95/60/50/40 and never any lower.
Only whites for my line.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
IheartMaytag:
What was it you needed to clear up that one left out, or maybe I shouldn't ask? *LOL*
I was clarifying that I stated that my mother's linens were regularly washed in bleach, but in reality they are 100% cotton. Just for some reason we always refer to sheets and such as linens. I am guessing it has become generic, but your excellent definition made me realize the err of my ways.
I always enjoy your comments and insites.
What was it you needed to clear up that one left out, or maybe I shouldn't ask? *LOL*
I was clarifying that I stated that my mother's linens were regularly washed in bleach, but in reality they are 100% cotton. Just for some reason we always refer to sheets and such as linens. I am guessing it has become generic, but your excellent definition made me realize the err of my ways.
I always enjoy your comments and insites.
Ohh!
Got it! *LOL*
Well actually "linens" as a generic term for everything bath, bed, table and body came about because at one time they were all made of mainly linen. Ok, for the wealthy there was silk, but for most of the Old World, with the exception of places like Egypt and India, where cotton has always grown, linen and to a lesser extent hemp and nettle were fabrics of choice.
Indeed one has to becareful searching on eBay in many European countries for "linen" or "lin" , "linge", Wasche, and so forth. Not only do these terms mean linens as in sheets, towels and such, but undergarments as well. Darn near got a very nasty shock when searching eBay.de (Germany), for "Wasche". *LOL*
Got it! *LOL*
Well actually "linens" as a generic term for everything bath, bed, table and body came about because at one time they were all made of mainly linen. Ok, for the wealthy there was silk, but for most of the Old World, with the exception of places like Egypt and India, where cotton has always grown, linen and to a lesser extent hemp and nettle were fabrics of choice.
Indeed one has to becareful searching on eBay in many European countries for "linen" or "lin" , "linge", Wasche, and so forth. Not only do these terms mean linens as in sheets, towels and such, but undergarments as well. Darn near got a very nasty shock when searching eBay.de (Germany), for "Wasche". *LOL*
I'm Sorry?
Missed it totally.
L.
Missed it totally.
L.
