oldhouseman
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Pride in ownership.......
...is why I did my own extreme makeover..
from this...
...is why I did my own extreme makeover..
from this...
This Is Disgusting - Extreme Makeover Show
- Thread starter whirlcool
- Start date
oldhouseman
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to this
2 years work so far..
2 years work so far..
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Aren't some apartments in New York owned by the tenants? Out here same thing, except legally what is done is convert the apartments into "condos". Another method is TIC or Tenants In Common. However I gather the TIC deal is a bit complicated since everyone needs to get along and cooperate on issues that effect the entire structure. Not always a given...
Oldhouseman, looks like you did a miracle on that old house. Looks like a huge amount of prep/repair work on that wood siding was needed.
Lee, generally the best multi-unit rentals I lived in were modified single family structures, although plumbing could be an issue. Generally this resulted in low hot water flow due to old clogged galvanized steel water pipes (the hot tends to clog up a lot quicker than the cold). Got the same issue now in the kitchen of the home I own - it's still on galvanized. I bought all the copper to redo the place but am waiting for a breather in the rest of the chores to dive back down into the crawl space for that fun task. At the same time I'm thinking I'll add some spigots in the enclosed patio kitchen and the covered patio outside it for washer and/or dishwasher installations. I have a stacking Miele set that would fit perfectly in a nook on the covered patio... ;-)
Oldhouseman, looks like you did a miracle on that old house. Looks like a huge amount of prep/repair work on that wood siding was needed.
Lee, generally the best multi-unit rentals I lived in were modified single family structures, although plumbing could be an issue. Generally this resulted in low hot water flow due to old clogged galvanized steel water pipes (the hot tends to clog up a lot quicker than the cold). Got the same issue now in the kitchen of the home I own - it's still on galvanized. I bought all the copper to redo the place but am waiting for a breather in the rest of the chores to dive back down into the crawl space for that fun task. At the same time I'm thinking I'll add some spigots in the enclosed patio kitchen and the covered patio outside it for washer and/or dishwasher installations. I have a stacking Miele set that would fit perfectly in a nook on the covered patio... ;-)
toggleswitch2
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she;s an ISLAND GIRL......
~Aren't some apartments in New York owned by the tenants?
Yes but I was reading that in my city only 20% own the space in which they reside. (Not sure if island of Manhattan only or the surrounding boroughs as well). [Boroughs are what the city calls the surrounding counties that are actually PART of the city. There are 5 counties /boroughs taht comprise NYC. which is also comprised of three islands and a small part on the mainland.
Condominiums were a legal nightmare here in that NYC (believe it or not) coud not originaly record a deed "vertically". so this was fixed by creating co-operatives.
Here's how it works: An aparmtment buildng goes copperative. The sponsor creates a corporate entity. Each apt (dweller) has the right to purchase so many shares of stock in the corporation. For this you are granted an occupany lease(open-ended) that allows you to inhabitan apartment (and sometimes not even a SPECIFIC aparmtent.) Either one share of stock stock per apt is issued [period], or the location is considered with some worth more and others less of a nubmer is shares.
The corporation riases money by charging a fee each month call "Maintenance charges". This may (or may not) include:
Underlying mortgage for the whole building(s).
Land lease payements. (if land is not woned outright or part of bldg mortgage.
Real-estate taxes
Salaries
Energy costs (fuel oil, common cooking gas and/or common electricity,w ater, hot water, etc.).
Actual maintenance
lawn/garden/ grounds-keeping
snow removal
captial expensidtures and repairs.
Maintenance charges may be on a per share(of stock) basis or may be adjusted by things like extra windows, extra square footage(space) etc.
With a condominium, USUALLY (now that they have FINALLY been allowed in NYC) utitlies are serpately metered, there is no underlying mortgage on the buildng, and unit owners are INDIVIDUALLY billed by the city for real-estate taxes.
Co-ops and Condos are FORMS OF OWNERSHIP and may include what appears to be a private house to a multi-unit mixed-use aparmtent buiding with residences over grounn-level retail-type units.
If you REALLY want to get technical, since co-ops MUST derive I dont know 80% or more of their income from maintenace cahrges, there are also COND-OPS. These are huge apt. buildngs with stores which is broken into a number of condominiums. Fro example ALL The residences are 1 condo, and all the businesses another. Teh rediential condomonium is then legal broken into a co-op. How' that for circumventing the law? *LOL*
~Aren't some apartments in New York owned by the tenants?
Yes but I was reading that in my city only 20% own the space in which they reside. (Not sure if island of Manhattan only or the surrounding boroughs as well). [Boroughs are what the city calls the surrounding counties that are actually PART of the city. There are 5 counties /boroughs taht comprise NYC. which is also comprised of three islands and a small part on the mainland.
Condominiums were a legal nightmare here in that NYC (believe it or not) coud not originaly record a deed "vertically". so this was fixed by creating co-operatives.
Here's how it works: An aparmtment buildng goes copperative. The sponsor creates a corporate entity. Each apt (dweller) has the right to purchase so many shares of stock in the corporation. For this you are granted an occupany lease(open-ended) that allows you to inhabitan apartment (and sometimes not even a SPECIFIC aparmtent.) Either one share of stock stock per apt is issued [period], or the location is considered with some worth more and others less of a nubmer is shares.
The corporation riases money by charging a fee each month call "Maintenance charges". This may (or may not) include:
Underlying mortgage for the whole building(s).
Land lease payements. (if land is not woned outright or part of bldg mortgage.
Real-estate taxes
Salaries
Energy costs (fuel oil, common cooking gas and/or common electricity,w ater, hot water, etc.).
Actual maintenance
lawn/garden/ grounds-keeping
snow removal
captial expensidtures and repairs.
Maintenance charges may be on a per share(of stock) basis or may be adjusted by things like extra windows, extra square footage(space) etc.
With a condominium, USUALLY (now that they have FINALLY been allowed in NYC) utitlies are serpately metered, there is no underlying mortgage on the buildng, and unit owners are INDIVIDUALLY billed by the city for real-estate taxes.
Co-ops and Condos are FORMS OF OWNERSHIP and may include what appears to be a private house to a multi-unit mixed-use aparmtent buiding with residences over grounn-level retail-type units.
If you REALLY want to get technical, since co-ops MUST derive I dont know 80% or more of their income from maintenace cahrges, there are also COND-OPS. These are huge apt. buildngs with stores which is broken into a number of condominiums. Fro example ALL The residences are 1 condo, and all the businesses another. Teh rediential condomonium is then legal broken into a co-op. How' that for circumventing the law? *LOL*
toggleswitch2
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in my co-op
"All" utlites were included, (except of course telephone and cable tv and internet service).
Electricty was not metered to individual apartments.
There was an "electrical" monthly charge for each addtitonal appliance.
washer $5
dishwasher $5
dryer $5
air-condtioner (small, bedroom) $10 per month x 12 months.
air-conditioner (large, living room) $15 per monnth x 12.
freezer $xx/mo. etc.
Electric coooking (main cooker/stiove) had to be gas, not electric) Dryer could be gas or electric, washer was the same price whether front or top-loading.
In some co-ops the dryer MUST be gas. In others it MUST be electric(they had a gas explosion). In some front-loading washers are charged-for at a lesser rate that top-loaders. Luck of the draw and WHICH frumpy old housweives get elected to the board, apparently.
Don't challenge their soverignty and they leave you alone! LOL
"All" utlites were included, (except of course telephone and cable tv and internet service).
Electricty was not metered to individual apartments.
There was an "electrical" monthly charge for each addtitonal appliance.
washer $5
dishwasher $5
dryer $5
air-condtioner (small, bedroom) $10 per month x 12 months.
air-conditioner (large, living room) $15 per monnth x 12.
freezer $xx/mo. etc.
Electric coooking (main cooker/stiove) had to be gas, not electric) Dryer could be gas or electric, washer was the same price whether front or top-loading.
In some co-ops the dryer MUST be gas. In others it MUST be electric(they had a gas explosion). In some front-loading washers are charged-for at a lesser rate that top-loaders. Luck of the draw and WHICH frumpy old housweives get elected to the board, apparently.
Don't challenge their soverignty and they leave you alone! LOL
toggleswitch2
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- May 23, 2008
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and maintenace charges for a co-op are MUCH higher than common charges in a condo.
Figure $700 +/- per month for the former and $300 (maybe less) for the latter. Of course these will vary greatly.
The price of a condo is MUCH higher (all other things being equal)than the price of a co-op in general. Co-ops have a greater risk of default and of going bankrupt, in which case you (the former owner) become a renter and have little if any recourse, IIRC. Your stock becomes toilet paper. Said differntly there is less risk in owning a codo.
Figure $700 +/- per month for the former and $300 (maybe less) for the latter. Of course these will vary greatly.
The price of a condo is MUCH higher (all other things being equal)than the price of a co-op in general. Co-ops have a greater risk of default and of going bankrupt, in which case you (the former owner) become a renter and have little if any recourse, IIRC. Your stock becomes toilet paper. Said differntly there is less risk in owning a codo.
toggleswitch2
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Shcmeckle is a small schmuck.
In my co-op electricty and cooking gas were not individually metered to the tenants. This meant that the schmuck in the next unit could leave his A/C on blasting for 24/7 for his cat Mimi to be cool while he was away for three weeks. Guess who ends up paying for that? (EVERYONE).
In my co-op electricty and cooking gas were not individually metered to the tenants. This meant that the schmuck in the next unit could leave his A/C on blasting for 24/7 for his cat Mimi to be cool while he was away for three weeks. Guess who ends up paying for that? (EVERYONE).
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Thanks for the treatise on NYC apartment "ownership".
Glad I live in the Western Burbs.
;-)
Glad I live in the Western Burbs.
;-)
fltcoils
Member
Midwest rustbelt
Here in the midwest the cost of housing is nowhere close to that seen on the coasts. Due to snow, or old housing stock or I'm not sure what....
An american 4 square or cape cod will cost you $80 to $120. That gets you a house which was good enough for your great grandparents, grandparents or parents. Somewhere between 900 and 1500 sq ft, not counting the basement or the garage in the back yard by the alley. 30 to 50 foot wide lot with an alley in back. Anyone remember walking to school, you can do that in the mid west (in places).
If you really need more sq ft (2500-4000) you can always flee to the suburbs (commute by car) and so gain the privilege of living with an attached garage in a L ranch or tri-level plastic house (plastic because of the Styrofoam wall board covered with vinyl siding). Oh yeah, no sidewalks and the bumpy country roads are crowded with SUVs racing to daycare.
I'd met a aged couple who bought a bungalow in the 20s, 24ft by 30 ft. Outhouse. They expanded by adding a porch to the rear at the kitchen, that porch addition included an indoor toilet. A small "michigan" basement pit was just large enough to hold the coal fired gravity furnace. It had electricity, no phone, no gas. They and many like them raised families of 3 or 4 kids in these 2/3 bedroom 1 stories. Such houses go for $50k around here.
Midwest view: Something is truly haywire in the coastal areas where home prices are 3 to 4 times the midwestern price. Time for it to come back to reality.
$44,900 Mishawaka, IN
Here in the midwest the cost of housing is nowhere close to that seen on the coasts. Due to snow, or old housing stock or I'm not sure what....
An american 4 square or cape cod will cost you $80 to $120. That gets you a house which was good enough for your great grandparents, grandparents or parents. Somewhere between 900 and 1500 sq ft, not counting the basement or the garage in the back yard by the alley. 30 to 50 foot wide lot with an alley in back. Anyone remember walking to school, you can do that in the mid west (in places).
If you really need more sq ft (2500-4000) you can always flee to the suburbs (commute by car) and so gain the privilege of living with an attached garage in a L ranch or tri-level plastic house (plastic because of the Styrofoam wall board covered with vinyl siding). Oh yeah, no sidewalks and the bumpy country roads are crowded with SUVs racing to daycare.
I'd met a aged couple who bought a bungalow in the 20s, 24ft by 30 ft. Outhouse. They expanded by adding a porch to the rear at the kitchen, that porch addition included an indoor toilet. A small "michigan" basement pit was just large enough to hold the coal fired gravity furnace. It had electricity, no phone, no gas. They and many like them raised families of 3 or 4 kids in these 2/3 bedroom 1 stories. Such houses go for $50k around here.
Midwest view: Something is truly haywire in the coastal areas where home prices are 3 to 4 times the midwestern price. Time for it to come back to reality.
$44,900 Mishawaka, IN
Coastal area pricing is hideous. And 3 or 4 times the midwest price may be a good case scenario.
For example, I did some work with a house, right before it was put on the market recently. Three bedroom, two bath, living room, and family room. Semi-rural location, about an hour from Seattle. The house needed work--some to get a mortgage, then a lot more to bring it (the yard, actually) into line with the neighborhood. The house was listed for over $350K. And I understand that the Realtor expected that it had a chance of selling at the price he set. Either he spends too much time reading the Power of Positive Thinking. Or else he expects to get that $350K. Proving, once again, that the Seattle area is hideously expensive.
And it's probably going to get worse and worse.
For example, I did some work with a house, right before it was put on the market recently. Three bedroom, two bath, living room, and family room. Semi-rural location, about an hour from Seattle. The house needed work--some to get a mortgage, then a lot more to bring it (the yard, actually) into line with the neighborhood. The house was listed for over $350K. And I understand that the Realtor expected that it had a chance of selling at the price he set. Either he spends too much time reading the Power of Positive Thinking. Or else he expects to get that $350K. Proving, once again, that the Seattle area is hideously expensive.
And it's probably going to get worse and worse.
oldhouseman
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I just don't get the market I guess
I bought my house for 67K. 210 years old, needed massive restoration and the 1850 house down the street that was up to date sold for little more than mine.
Currently there is a Victorian house next door to me up for sale at 60K.
there are several real antebellum mansions for sale in town dirt cheap. Two counties over the same age houses are over a million dollars???????
My house is in a real small southern town that looks pretty much the way it did in 1968.
Atlanta and Savannah are not to far away, neither is Athens. Housing prices don't make sense anymore. My house would be over a million -or two- in Atlanta.
People I know in Atlanta visit and gawk over my house, they think it's great. They can't believe what a place I have. The locals think its nothing.
Then again the locals still call memorial day "dead yankee day" and celebrate Confederate Memorial Day in April (it is after all still a State Holiday).
Go figure....
One county over house prices are over 250K for a two bedroom one and a half bath for a townhouse. A house is four times the price of mine.
Location, location, location.....
I bought my house for 67K. 210 years old, needed massive restoration and the 1850 house down the street that was up to date sold for little more than mine.
Currently there is a Victorian house next door to me up for sale at 60K.
there are several real antebellum mansions for sale in town dirt cheap. Two counties over the same age houses are over a million dollars???????
My house is in a real small southern town that looks pretty much the way it did in 1968.
Atlanta and Savannah are not to far away, neither is Athens. Housing prices don't make sense anymore. My house would be over a million -or two- in Atlanta.
People I know in Atlanta visit and gawk over my house, they think it's great. They can't believe what a place I have. The locals think its nothing.
Then again the locals still call memorial day "dead yankee day" and celebrate Confederate Memorial Day in April (it is after all still a State Holiday).
Go figure....
One county over house prices are over 250K for a two bedroom one and a half bath for a townhouse. A house is four times the price of mine.
Location, location, location.....
sudsmaster
Well-known member
It depends on what part of the coast, as well.
A lot of people started buying cheaper, new houses out in the San Joaquin Valley. Modesto, Tracy, Manteca (means "lard" in Spanish, tee hee). Or due east towards Sac. Like Brentwood, Antioch, etc. They got a lot more house for the money. Only problem: they also got a commute from hell to their jobs back in the Bay Area. And after the housing boom busted, their less expensive houses got a lot less expensive, lots of foreclosures out in those bedroom communities.
Me, I bought in a centrally located Bay Area community that for some strange reason has had lower housing prices. Although the market value of the house tripled around 2006, it's gone back to merely double what I paid for it in 1997. Makes little difference to me now; I plan on living here till the very end (or as close to it as I can get) but I suppose a reverse mortgage in my dotage might be attractive.
And in any case you can't take ANY of it with you. Not even the GM Frigidaire washers.
A lot of people started buying cheaper, new houses out in the San Joaquin Valley. Modesto, Tracy, Manteca (means "lard" in Spanish, tee hee). Or due east towards Sac. Like Brentwood, Antioch, etc. They got a lot more house for the money. Only problem: they also got a commute from hell to their jobs back in the Bay Area. And after the housing boom busted, their less expensive houses got a lot less expensive, lots of foreclosures out in those bedroom communities.
Me, I bought in a centrally located Bay Area community that for some strange reason has had lower housing prices. Although the market value of the house tripled around 2006, it's gone back to merely double what I paid for it in 1997. Makes little difference to me now; I plan on living here till the very end (or as close to it as I can get) but I suppose a reverse mortgage in my dotage might be attractive.
And in any case you can't take ANY of it with you. Not even the GM Frigidaire washers.
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