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Well.

I've kept my mouth shut for a while but now's the point where I think I need to speak up.

Yep, there are certainly a lot of randy gay guys on this board who've made some off-color comments. Only a very few, though, have gone over the top, at least in my opinion. I'm guilty myself, I'm pretty sure. What seems funny at the time doesn't always come out that way.

The unfortunate fact is that we're humans here and as such, don't always think before we post. Not making excuses, just stating a fact.

I know it doesn't always occur to me that there are young'uns on this board, a fact that we should definitely keep in mind before we start typing. I know I will.

That said, I must say I'm very concerned about Jamie's mother's comment. A little offended too, I think. I'm going to assume she never actually used the word "rape", and was really more concerned about, oh, just the vibe involved with a teenager being around a group of adults, many of whom are gay. I don't know--do people still worry about gays trying to "recruit" young people?

I will agree that 15 is probably too young to be taking a trip like that alone, though it would depend on the kid. I've met some 15 year olds that were going on 30, if you know what I mean. Would I send my own teenage son off to the convention on his own? Probably not, though again, it would depend on the kid. If I did think he was mature enough, my concern would be that the other members would be overprotective! I've been on the board long enough to realize that if anyone messed with one of us, that person would have the entire membership on his ass in a New York second. This is a remarkably tight-knit group.

The problem then, is that Jamie's mother probably doesn't check the boards enough. If she did, it wouldn't take long to realize that we're one of the most caring groups around. I got more birthday wishes from the members here than I did from my "in-person" family. If someone posts that he has a hangnail, the sympathy and caring comes flooding in. Remember when Lawrence was in the hospital so long with that infection? Lawrence, did you feel that the members here just forgot about you? Doubt it! Or when David was going through his unfortunate business situation. It was like a brother was having trouble, not just a person. Cory? Ben? Austin? Did you feel uncomfortable at the convention?
(Not trying to put anyone on the spot here. Just using the first examples that pop into my head. My apologies if anyone wants to be kept out of my ramblings.)

Wash-ins? Dinners? It seems like everyone's door is always open all the time. Personal (sometimes very personal) stories? Hopes? Fears? We don't seem shy about sharing them. Cripes, youall know more about me than a lot of people I see every day.

I guess what I'm rambling on about is we are family.

Family.

Oh, yes, indeed.

And just like family, we can be jerks sometimes. But we would never, never, NEVER let anything happen to one of us.

I for one am proud to be a member of this family.

veg
 
John---------hang in with us!

John,
I am fairly new to posting here and Robert and the members have been kind enough to let us vac folks post about our interest in vacuums complete with pics. I like reading your posts and I really appreciated the nose for snobbery comment!

The VCCC website is not user friendly and you can't download ANYTHING without going through the webmaster who runs that site with an iron fist. I am the former Pres of that group and I love this website, the members and the banter that goes on.

I do think any group no matter how big or small, how left or right, how male or female, etc., is going to at times have sexual innuendo. It is part of the human condition. At the vacuum conventions there is always some double entrende about crevice tools, beater bars, length of hoses, shag rug rakes and so on.

The "self-policing" that goes on here seems to keep everybody in check fairly well. When anyone pushes the boundaries too far, somebody is there to rein them in. This is the best forum I've seen doing that as no one is made to look like a fool.

So, please keep posting and I do enjoy the vacuum talk so keep it going!

Charlie
 
Veg used the right word...

...offended. But I was not "kinda" offended, I was majorly offended. I don't want to put a teen in a position of debate against a parent -- no way shape or form. But I just couldn't let that stand. I've read with the others, patiently and concerned, to the teens speaking up as is their proper right here -- as they are, I believe in looking at the interactions here, peers. But use of that term called for pushback. It went over the top for me.

I've much more to say, but I think it's best I leave my comments at that. Again, I say, if anything I post offends anyone, or makes you uncomfortable, have it removed. I will not protest.

I value this venue highly, and am really enjoying the enthusiasm here. Right now, this hobby is probably my sole source for a feeling of accomplishment and reward. I'll pledge here to honor others

Lastly -- Charlie, in response to your last post -- I'll let this picture of another Kirby attachment speak its thousand words...
 
Yesterday, Wednesday I had a docs appointment downtown and it was raining cats an dogs here. On top of that my cars windshield wipers quit. Oh so carefully I manage to get my car down the hiway to into town and pull into the closest train transit parking lot. No way was I going to drive any further, especially to downtown so I steeled myself up and took the train in (only my second time in the 18yrs I've lived here). I throw my ducats into the ticket dispenser and head down to the platform. Being summer holidays kids and teens everywhere and there's nothing said on this site that comes close to the smut and expletives their conversations were peppered with. I think many of you have been in similar circumstances
 
WOW

Well, for all of you that know me, by now you probably have figured out that I pretty much say what's on my mind!
I just read the post from Jamie on why he couldn't come to the convention.
I'm shocked that the word "Rape" was used!!! Acually I just about threw up! That has been the MOST uncomfortable thing that I have EVER read on this board! I don't know everyone personally but, I do know that was uncalled for! If at any given time someone at that convention would have even made a comment like that the other members would have kicked their ass. I don't know what in the hell would make someone think that the club members here are pedifiles! The club members here watch over the kids like they are there own! And everyone else for that matter! Jamie you couldn't have been more safe! I'm positive it would have been more safe than you attending school everyday! The more I think about it the more I get pissed! If this would have been a convention with a bunch of women would that comment been made? Or straight men? Bullshit!
However, At times I do agree that it gets a little steamy around here! I think the guilty have fesses up and realized that it isn't the place for it! I guess I'd better shut up now!

Still shocked and pissed!, Bethann
 
OK, I definitely agree with Bethann. I found that comment a little more than offensive, and I know it will cause a lot of unfortunate hurt feelings. I'm genuinely sorry if that happens as well. I thought the Convention was GREAT, and every member I met is like a member of the family!! No one, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE acted in that manner, and if I had heard that comment at Greg's house, I (as well as many others) would have been in that person's face faster than a Unimatic empties the tub (and I normally don't do confrontations)! I know for a fact that no one else felt "uncomfortable" there either. I'm still shocked that anyone would even remotely THINK of something like this...

In response to Steven's post, I'm straight, and I tend to post a few "babe-related" comments, so it does go both ways (I'm sure I'm one of the people you're referring to as well!).

--Austin
 
Austin hates when I post right after he does, but I had to chime in on this subject.

I feel that anyone under the age of 18 should be chaperoned when traveling. Airports are confusing to the *seasoned* travelers among us. I can't imagine an unchaperoned adolescent dealing with ticket agents, airport security, time tables, etc. I would be worried sick!

I also try to monitor the web-surfing. Our computer is in a central location, and is viewable by all. Anything deemed inappropriate is not allowed. After all, there is also a ten year old watching.

However, the comments about a possible "situation involving rape" at the convention made me go....."WHOA"! I agree with my old pal Veg, that there are some *randy* people and moments on some of these threads. Sometimes I wince and give out my usual *OY* (and sometimes I laugh riotsly)! But these comments are usually in good (albeit PG-13 or close to R) humour, and no harm is meant by them. We are all a little braver when writing than if we were to make the same comments face-to-face. If there is ever anything extremely offensive, all one has to do is let our esteemed webmaster know about it, and it is taken care of.

I not only felt completely at home and enjoyed myself immensely in the presence of our members at the convention, I had absolutely no problem letting Austin socialize, discuss, demonstrate, and enjoy himself! This is the nicest bunch of folks I ever met. There was no pretense, we had a common interest immediately, and everyone looked after each other. I was so happy to see everyone take Austin under their wings. He's never had so many *uncles*, *brothers*, *cousins*, mentors, and friends in one place!

It is unfortunate that this kind of *fear* would even come into play here. I would like to think that we know each other better than that.
 
Thank You RetroMom, Austin and Bethann

And Thank you Veg! I couldn't have said it better.

And I must say knowing most of these people here a long time and how much work is done behind the scenes the comment made by Jaimie's mom was also very UNFAIR! PERIOD!
It also demonstrates to me a lack of belief or faith she has in herself to say something like that off hand.
She doesn't "know" me!

This place is for appliances and the people that love them to share their hobby with.

I know I have made comments that were alittle daring, but it never got out of hand nor do I believe it ever would with this crowd!

The more mixed we are the better I feel! Christian Conservatives, Straights, Gays, raging Liberals, even Canadians!
I have never trusted a homogenous group, there is no true sharing when everyone is exactly the same.

As one of the founding members I say MIX IT UP and keep it mixed that is one of our greatest strengths!

Cheers to all
Jetcone
 
More .02 cents

I think we should all be aware of our audience and regulate ourselves! IN NO WAY Should this task fall on Robert as webmaster! HE has enough to do just running things!

Every adult here should be able to roll with a joke or remark they find they are uncomfortable with.
That is part and parcel of being a MIX.
BUT no ADULT OR CHILD should ever be allowed to push the forum into an uncomfortable zone away from appliances for very long. A comment is a comment a trend is something else entirely.

And I think all the members here do a very good job of keeping us on track with our hobby and away from bad trends!

Jon
 
When I was so ill.... (Families of choice, in action)

Once my friend Linda emailed David (appliancegarage), and he posted that I was in the hospital, the love and care and letters and phone calls from the other members here overwhelmed me --in the best sense of the word. I knew my news was on the board when Chuck D. called on a Friday evening when I was feeling lonely, sad, and had a certain amount of physical pain. His nice voice, and friendliness, and knowledge of appliances cheered me greatly. David had called earlier, but then he knew from Linda. (Yes she might be, but the term we both prefer is "woman friend."!)

During my 33 days away from my cat, my Maytags, my internet connection...it was my familieS of choice who kept up my spirits.

People from church, my NON-drinking buddies (1-31-82!--one day at a time), and especially YOU-- my fellow residents of Applianceville kept me laughing, and feeling less alone.

My biological family (almost all out of state) sent cards and phoned, but....you were there!

When I finally came home, and saw the care and concern in the threads about me, it was so beautiful.

I've only emailed some of you, but I am proud to know you all. I hope my circumstances will permit me to be there for the next convention--wherever and whenever.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Having had numerous private emails on this subject

and chats.. Here's what I'm gonna say because of all the consternation it's caused.. Jaime is either not telling the truth and making up what his mother said, and if he is not then perhaps he should have his mother email and confirm it whatever. To say what he said even at 15 or whatever age should
be questioned for everyones sake
After all if she is that uncomfortable she would probably stop him from viewing the site altogether...
 
Okay, everyone take a deep breath and stop for a second.

We don't know for SURE that Jamie's mom actually said that. Fifteen year-olds aren't known for thinking before they act--or write. Benefit of the doubt time, folks.

QUOTE: "The more mixed we are the better I feel! Christian Conservatives, Straights, Gays, raging Liberals, even Canadians!"

Oh, please. Canadians? I like to think of myself as open-minded, but can't we draw the line somewhere? I mean, come on...;)

(Love ya, Pete!)

veg
 
Ummmm... Let us also remember that instead of going to our convention, Jamie when to the Clean show in Orlando and spent at least 2 days in a convention hall, I beleive unchaperoned. Let's see, spend a weekend with a group of people who all know eachother at a private home with names, addresses and phone numbers on file who feel nothing short of parental responsibility for our young proteges, or spend the weekend in a convention hall with thousands of strangers. Hmmmm...

Maybe Jamie's parents should have talked with Ausin's parents before convention. I know at previous conventions, the "washer widows" would congregate together and maybe do something touristy away from the washers; maybe the same should happen with our under 21 members and their family chaperones.

How completely out of hand this has become...
 
OK enough already please.

I'm sure most agree that this is getting a bit out of hand now. Maybe we need to remember that Jamie is only 15 years old and he was probably either exaggerating or misunderstood what his mother said. I know Jamie and his mom rather well and both are great, and I can't imagine his Mom really saying such a thing, but it is quite likely that her words might have been misunderstood by Jamie. Now when I think back to when I was 15 years old I might have done the exact same thing that he did especially if something was making me uncomfortable. I'm sure if you all think back to when you were 15 you might have been capable of doing the same types of exaggerations.

If Jamie was exaggerating or misunderstood his Mom and would like to apologize to us, we would certainly understand and forgive him. Either way, we want him to know that he is a wonderful member of our club and we are lucky to have him with us and certainly wouldn't want him to feel uncomfortable because of a slight misunderstanding.
 
Sincerest Apologies...

I would just like to apologize to anyone who was offended by my earlier post; that was not at all my intention. I would also like to apologize for using the word "rape", it did not come across the way I thought it would. I also do believe I misunderstood what my mother was trying to say when she told me that I couldn't go to the convention, I guess she feared of ANY, "funny business" that may have occurred not necessarily at the convention, but on the flight, or at the airport, etc, just as any mother would. I hope to resume enjoying this site to fullest again soon and attending wash-ins, conventions, and get togethers once I know that everyone knows I was not trying to offend anyone with my remark, but merely commenting on my observations. I now regret that I used the word "rape" as reading back I can see how I may have offended anyone and frankly, I was a little offended to by my own remark now seeing how many may have read the text. I guess it is one of those things where you mean it one way but most everyone takes it completely the other way. Again, I SINCERELY apologize for any offense this may have caused to anyone and I wish that if not at least that post but this whole thread be deleted and forgotten by all so we can get on enjoying what this site is all about and all of it's members.
 
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