Todays Dishwashers

[cleanteamofny]

Bob, I went to Costco and brought a big bottle of Jet-Dry and to Pathmark and brought the Turbo Jet-dry before reading this new update. So I guess I'm set for the rest of this year.

Can you add the link to your *KA dishwawsher problems!*

Larry

 

[appnut]

Larry, it's thread 15653 on this Deluxe forum!!

 

[cleanteamofny]

k

 

[vintagesearch]

probably a whirlpool or kenmore with adjustable racks *grins* and manual clean filter (less noise). funny though my friend has a MOL slightly older hotpoint dw in her townhouse and the only sound it makes when running is the water thats it its easily drowned out by other things! it sounds like a shower running in there. now hers is broken

 

[toggleswitch]

I'm gonna puke. Looking to replace my KA TT POS.

The Whirpool power-clean system (Two door non-tall tub model)
does WASH-RINSE-DRY when "Normal" cycle is selected.

To get a W-W-R-R-D one has to select "Pots and pans".

EW!

Terry: How many water changes does your GE TT do in a normal cycle? I cant find cycle breakdowns (water use and changes) on GE's website.

 

[appnut]

Well good Steve. You've complained about your dishwasher ever since you've been here. And I'm sorry you're unhappy with it. FYI, extremely happy with my Kenmore Elite TT. And to my amazement, even Light/China cleans my BobLoads of stuff that has sat for 4-6 days without being touched (you've seen how i pretty much tip off large pieces of food, the rest goes in the machine and the TT I have is treated no different). Mashed potatoes and oatmeal sit for days. I did a load that sat for 14 days last weekened. ALL CLEAN. My water heater at best is set at 120. I see very little difference in cleaning between my old GWSD1200 and my new machine. You were one of the main reassons I had trepidations of picking this machine, but it have proven me very wrong ith those trepedations. And I hope CleanTeamNY (Larry) is just as happy with his as I am, when he gets his kitchen finished. And I hope Greg finds something wrong with Terry's dishwasher so that it can be fixed and he'll be just as happy with his GE. And BTW, I did 3 loads on SuperBowl Sunday

 

[appnut]

And ya know what, when I was in Tuscon last March, Terry & I were discussing my 20 y/o GE because he had the same model. He was the one who commented, I should start thinking about replacing it because seals are gonna start going bad and so forth.

 

[toggleswitch]

If the GE TRITON is still a water-hog, I may go with that one, circular tower cut-out and all.
Even with such a space-killer, this machine fits large pots in the top rack.
It's quick, washes well and is well-racked. One can also select or de-select a heated wash, a heated rinse and a heated dry.
Does not indicate WASH, RINSE DRY, but I will manage to live past the disappointment.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Gosh, on Water Miser, both the Kenmore Ultra Clean and the Maytag Jet Clean use 4 water changes of 2 gallons each. The Kenmore has the WP power clean module and the Maytag has that super fine filter and they wash great. Most anything with heavier than normal soil comes out clean if I add water heating to prolong the wash. The 18s are great cleaners. They do use more water, but hold more, too. The country was about 4 years into the "energy crisis" when the 18 series was introduced. It has two different fill levels; one for the first two prerinses and the first two after rinses and then a higher fill level for the pre-wash and wash. The last rinse uses less than the other rinses so that if Sani Rinse is selected, it heats up faster. But at least they had the sense to fill both washes with enough water to make sure that the pump would have plenty of water to keep up the pressure for good, strong wash water action.

Do these new GE machines have a cycle that does not use the turbidity sensor to check for food soil? The detergent in the second detergent cup makes the water a bit cloudy and that trips the optical beam amd makes the sensor think it is food soil clouding the water so it washes more. John and Jason tell me that most people are not thrilled with the newer dishwashers unless they pre rinse dishes, but that wastes water, too; it's just not consumed by the machine so the machine gets the good energy rating. Everything has become so corrupted.

 

[48bencix]

Owner/Use manual

I looked at the GE and Whirlpool sites and they let you download the owner's manual. You can see the features and wash times for the various cycles. With the sensor dishwashers, the cycle varies according to the soil level.

For those who love to go over this stuff, and possibly help you buy a new dishwasher, check it out.

Martin

http://products.geappliances.com/Ap...UBCATEGORY&CATEGORY=CA0003&SITEID=GEA&cid=a90

 

[tlee618]

Tom, that is just what the GE repair guy told me, "these machines don't use enough water to get things clean". So we now pre-rinse everything and so where is the water savings???

 

[toggleswitch]

I use the "Rinse only" cycle every night. And still, the results are scary bad in my KA TT, whcih was a new design at the time it was purchased.

 

[volvoguy87]

Where's the water savings?

The water savings is in the dishwasher, silly! You don't think they have to count water for pre-rinsing, do you? That's the problem with regulation as we have it. Machines are regulated to the point where they do a lousy job, necessitating that we use more water, time, and effort dealing with the mess.

I believe appliance efficiency should not be measured in energy use, but energy use to accomplish satisfactory results for a given amount of dishes/clothes. That way, the energy and water consumption can be figured on a basis of "It requires X amount of energy and X amount of water to clean 1 item of standardized dirtiness" assuming that this one item is in a fully-loaded machine, running under optimal load and a normal cycle. This would allow for compensation for different capacity machines, and different levels of dirtiness.
Right now, any idiot can market a dishwasher and claim "Energy-Star" ratings and efficiency out the wazoo, and people will buy it. Unfortunately, there is no minimum standard for effectiveness, thus some of the most efficient appliances also do the worst job.

Just a little rant,
Dave

 

[andrewinorlando]

Are dishwashers rated only on energy use (including energy needed to heat the water, for those machines that heat water) rather than total water use, as washing machines are? I don't recall reading regulations that require dishwashers to use specific amounts of water, as washers manufacturers have to do. Any manufacturer can dumb down a "normal" cycle to meet rigid requirements, then add shitloads of options (pre-wash, pre-heat, added heat, whatever) to give the consumer additional options that will actually get the dishes clean. Or use more water to do the job. Near as I can measure, the GE Profile 9800 uses about 1.8 - 2.0 gallons per fill, to power its 5 level wash system. If I open the door too quickly while it's running, the refrigerator next to it gets a bath. So there is some serious water circulation going on in there, enough so that on several occasions, things have loosened up inside...the collar that holds the wash arm down, and the screw that holds the center wash arm in place have both come apart, requiring re-assembly, and creating quite the racket.

 

[johnb300m]

That's probably build-quality Andrew.
We've had a GE Triton XL since 2003 and it's never underperformed.
I don't understand the issues with these machines.
They fill with exactly 1.2 gallons of water each fill, yet the pump is able to circulate water at full press.
If they're loaded properly, they'll work. The Triton XLs are quite powerful machines in this "ultra energy conservative" day and age.
I think the Maytag's TTs are OK too, but no direct experience from them.

Depending on your soap, if you fill the prewash cup, it will probably trip the turbidity sensor.
But our family always uses the Cascade tabs so no soap in the prewash. Many times the Normal wash will go directly to the main wash, no real issues with cleanability.

Pots & Pans I think sometimes uses too many water changes even if there's not alot of cookware soil.
So you yesteryear guys should like that. and Maybe use P&P more.

 

[logixx]

In Europe, at least, dishwashers are rated for energy use but also cleaning and drying performance - in accordance to some complicated and detailed norm. A variety of food, such as spinach, egg yolk, tea, ground meat milk and so forth is applied to plates, bowls, cup and cutlery and then either dried for several hours at 176°F or put through a microwave.

Each manufacturer can then dictate how the dishes are loaded and which cycle is to be used for the Energy Label test. This high efficiency cycle may or may not include a cold pre-wash, an extended wash at 113° to 131°F, a cold rinse, a final rinse at 140° to 149°F and an extended drying phase. In order to receive an A for energy efficiency the dishwasher must not use more than 1.05 kWh. Water consumption is not rated as far as I know but obviously, the more water is consumed the more has to be heated. Cycle duration is not rated either, therefore the high efficiency cycle takes approx 2.5 hrs because it has to deliver perfectly clean dishes using very little resources. I don't mind the long duration as I only run the dishwasher three times a week and almost all machines are rated below 50 dB - some as low as 40 dB. And after all: there are always faster cycles for daily use. Bosch/Siemens, Miele and others have introduced options to cut cycle time by up to 50 % without compromising cleaning results.

Having said that, I just have to give it up to B/S/H. Some days ago, I washed a load of encrusted casserole dishes and a pot and some misc items in the upper rack. Used the ECO (-> high efficiency cycle) with the half load option. Granted, the cycle still took close to two hours but everything came clean with a 122° wash, a rinse, an extra hot 158° and a quick dry. Water consumption: a mere 3 gallons. Despite it taking a gallon to fill it won't skimp on pressure. I'm convinced, if loaded properly, the dishwasher could do without the middle spray arm. The lower arm is powerful enough to wash both baskets - I've seen (and video taped) it. Even the Miele, which I watched going through the pre-wash, can't compete with our Siemens as far as water pressure goes. And our DW is even quieter than the Miele.

I took a vid of the Miele but it's a 136 MB large... so I'll have to shrink it before posting.

Here's a video from Miele regarding the Energy Label test

Alex