bradfordwhite
Well-known member
I especially like them in a baseboard and original not painted like in this photo
Ungrounded Outlets
- Thread starter Chetlaham
- Start date
Help Support :
I think its 10 amps at 240 volts, 15 amps at 120 volts. This was the pre-NEMA days and the code at the time had a silly rule that some devices had to be rated less amps at higher voltages.
I wish the US had settled on 240 volts instead of 120. We'd probably have 10 amp general use circuits wired in 16 AWG copper.
I love your pic btw!
I wish the US had settled on 240 volts instead of 120. We'd probably have 10 amp general use circuits wired in 16 AWG copper.
I love your pic btw!
My late 20's apartment had grounded receptacles, even though they were two prong thanks to Chicago being a conduit town. Only place they weren't grounded was some handyman added receptacles from circa 1960. I replaced all the paint caked receptacle when I moved in with grounded except on those circuits (and the high voltage ac circuits). I always laugh at the receptacle where I grew up - we'd always been told the outlet for the fridge was in conduit and the adjacent receptacle was tapped off that one. Nope, when the kitchen was redone, we discovered it was the other way and the fridge was powered off two random wires behind a baseboard...
re: Reply# 16
Amazon is selling a centered ungrounded outlet in ivory color for $6.49, ships and sold by Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-223-I-Receptacle-Residential-Non-Grounded/dp/B000FPANRU
or you can buy a 10-pack in white for $20.98. Sold by a third-party but ships from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Duplex-Non-Grounding-Receptacle-Residential/dp/B0038RBXZS
It's good to remember "the wide slot is white", meaning the neutral is the wide slot, connected to the white wire, which is the neutral, and the outlet is installed with the wide slot on the left side. The ivory outlet as pictured on Amazon is correct but the white outlet is upside down.
Also, if you're going to do any electrical work, buy WIRING SIMPLIFIED. It's the greatest and only book you will ever need.
Amazon is selling a centered ungrounded outlet in ivory color for $6.49, ships and sold by Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-223-I-Receptacle-Residential-Non-Grounded/dp/B000FPANRU
or you can buy a 10-pack in white for $20.98. Sold by a third-party but ships from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Duplex-Non-Grounding-Receptacle-Residential/dp/B0038RBXZS
It's good to remember "the wide slot is white", meaning the neutral is the wide slot, connected to the white wire, which is the neutral, and the outlet is installed with the wide slot on the left side. The ivory outlet as pictured on Amazon is correct but the white outlet is upside down.
Also, if you're going to do any electrical work, buy WIRING SIMPLIFIED. It's the greatest and only book you will ever need.
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Looks like a good book.
Just ordered a copy.
Just ordered a copy.
If feeling nostalgic, here is the 1956 version of Wiring Simplified:
Well, that's a big outdated, no?
In any case, I placed the order, but still waiting for word from the store that the order is ready to be picked up. I suspect it won't be ready until Friday morning. We'll see!
In any case, I placed the order, but still waiting for word from the store that the order is ready to be picked up. I suspect it won't be ready until Friday morning. We'll see!
Outdated bigly. As in most of the 1956 version is no longer code compliant. Still fun to read though.
What kind of appliance would require an outlet like this, with the horizontal slot? I thought I read some type of air conditioner plugs require an outlet like this but I have never seen them.
<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-weight: 400;" name="start_93081.1177382"></a>
What kind of appliance would require an outlet like this, with the horizontal slot?
20 amp socket
Sometimes used with high-power microwave ovens, heaters, large old A/C window units, and large power tools.
What kind of appliance would require an outlet like this, with the horizontal slot?
20 amp socket
Sometimes used with high-power microwave ovens, heaters, large old A/C window units, and large power tools.
The receptacle pictured above (reply #28) is a 20 amp 120 volt device (NEMA 5-20). These are installed mainly in kitchens and laundry rooms, as a few appliances have plugs that require these. Also seen in workshops and garages, as some tools require them. Most commonly used in commercial buildings.
My question is
In regards to the Nema 620, if someone were to import compliance from a 220 V single phase country and connected to the 220 V split phase found in the USA, would that appliance work happily with that? excluding the usual suspects like motor powered clocks and microwaves or things that use the AC frequency for time
In regards to the Nema 620, if someone were to import compliance from a 220 V single phase country and connected to the 220 V split phase found in the USA, would that appliance work happily with that? excluding the usual suspects like motor powered clocks and microwaves or things that use the AC frequency for time
re: reply# 24
Chetlaham, thank you for posting the link to the 1956 Wiring Simplified. My copy is the 39th edition from 1999, purchased in the electrical department of Home Depot. Even though a lot has changed from 1956, some things stay the same. Notice how the 1956 receptacle diagram uses ungrounded outlets while the 1999 diagram has the ground hole. The ground wire isn't shown though.
Chetlaham, thank you for posting the link to the 1956 Wiring Simplified. My copy is the 39th edition from 1999, purchased in the electrical department of Home Depot. Even though a lot has changed from 1956, some things stay the same. Notice how the 1956 receptacle diagram uses ungrounded outlets while the 1999 diagram has the ground hole. The ground wire isn't shown though.
Working Happily
Much indeed. As long as said appliance can handle 60Hz, which most can, even if listed for only 50Hz, can't tell the difference. Schuko plugs aren't even polarised so the fact any leg could/is live is taken into account safety wise.
I do this in my own home. I refuse 120 volts when I can avoid using it. I find the added engineering effort of bootlegging an impractical half voltage out of a system so odd/dated/absurd/risky. Extra effort and material just stepping backwards.
Much indeed. As long as said appliance can handle 60Hz, which most can, even if listed for only 50Hz, can't tell the difference. Schuko plugs aren't even polarised so the fact any leg could/is live is taken into account safety wise.
I do this in my own home. I refuse 120 volts when I can avoid using it. I find the added engineering effort of bootlegging an impractical half voltage out of a system so odd/dated/absurd/risky. Extra effort and material just stepping backwards.
Being honest even the new additions of the book come across as dated, but, at the same time, as long as the graphics are revised to follow the lasted addition of NFPA-70 it suites its job well in teaching people.
There is one important thing that I want to clarify about that book and most other wiring books. When they use the term"ground" "going to ground" "traveling to the ground" or "grounded" in relation to clearing a fault they are referring to the path electricity takes back to the utility transformer and not the earth or soil itself. Very common misunderstanding. A typical ground rod comes in at 25 ohms and will not trip a breaker, where as a typical service neutral rarely exceeds 0.1 ohms. Fault current travels back to the main panel (or disconnect) via metal conduit or grounding conductors, to the grounding terminal in the enclosure, through the main bonding jumper, to the neutral bar and up through the service neutral going back to the transformer. It is one closed loop. The soil, earth or terra firma makes no difference in that regard.
There is one important thing that I want to clarify about that book and most other wiring books. When they use the term"ground" "going to ground" "traveling to the ground" or "grounded" in relation to clearing a fault they are referring to the path electricity takes back to the utility transformer and not the earth or soil itself. Very common misunderstanding. A typical ground rod comes in at 25 ohms and will not trip a breaker, where as a typical service neutral rarely exceeds 0.1 ohms. Fault current travels back to the main panel (or disconnect) via metal conduit or grounding conductors, to the grounding terminal in the enclosure, through the main bonding jumper, to the neutral bar and up through the service neutral going back to the transformer. It is one closed loop. The soil, earth or terra firma makes no difference in that regard.
polkanut
Well-known member
Our house is a mixture of grounded & ungrounded. The original part of our house was built in 1925, and the addition was built around 1962. Funny thing though, the man who owned the house before us was in the electric motor repair business for over 50 years. You would've thought that he would have updated the electrical over the years, but this was not the case. In fact, we upgraded to a 100-amp service with a breaker box vs the old 60-amp service with only 4 fuses for the entire house.
Reply 33, I would absolutely love to see a thread on 220 V
Appliances and how you got your system to work
Plus I do hope you have a 220 V coffee maker, if you don’t I can happily supply one
Appliances and how you got your system to work
Plus I do hope you have a 220 V coffee maker, if you don’t I can happily supply one
fan-of-fans
Well-known member
Re ungrounded with centered slots on Amazon
That is interesting. I do know at Home Depot the outlet on the display has the slots centered, but if you look at the ones for sale in the bin, they aren’t centered.
As for other brands, I believe Pass and Seymour/Legrand may still sell ungrounded ones with centered slots. But since Lowes switched to Cooper/Eaton here, nobody seems to sell P&S around here, so I cannot confirm.
The horizontal blade 20 amp plugs are also used on some small commercial cooking equipment that requires a 20 amp circuit. I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen sold toward residential use that does though.
The 20 amp outlets are usually seen in kitchens and baths of houses around here built in 80s and later, although even n the grandmothers 1978 home had them in the kitchen. I don’t know that there’s any code that says they have to be used specifically.
That is interesting. I do know at Home Depot the outlet on the display has the slots centered, but if you look at the ones for sale in the bin, they aren’t centered.
As for other brands, I believe Pass and Seymour/Legrand may still sell ungrounded ones with centered slots. But since Lowes switched to Cooper/Eaton here, nobody seems to sell P&S around here, so I cannot confirm.
The horizontal blade 20 amp plugs are also used on some small commercial cooking equipment that requires a 20 amp circuit. I can’t think of anything that I’ve seen sold toward residential use that does though.
The 20 amp outlets are usually seen in kitchens and baths of houses around here built in 80s and later, although even n the grandmothers 1978 home had them in the kitchen. I don’t know that there’s any code that says they have to be used specifically.
That 5-20R with 1 horizontal, one vertical slot is interesting. Do they always have a ground pin?
Without the ground pin it looks the same as our ELV (Extra Low Voltage) plug and socket in Australia, used for low voltage DC wiring - they are 2-pin only, one horizontal and one vertical pin.
They are somewhat unusual these days, used to be for 32V DC remote area homes with a 32 volt DC home battery system, powered by a wind generator and/or a diesel powered home lighting plant. You could buy vacuum cleaners, washing machines, irons and lights that ran on 32V DC with these plugs. They have come back into use in the solar era, mostly for 12V DC, now sometimes used in RVs for a more reliable connection than a 12 volt cigarette lighter plug.
I have them in my home, our place is wired dual-voltage, standard Australian 240V AC power outlets throughout the home and 12V DC outlets in a couple of strategic places only - mainly to run small devices direct from the DC batteries without the inverter. They don't get used much, our usage has changed. Our battery system is 24V DC and there is a DC
C converter to provide 12V from the 24V batteries.
Could be spectacular if someone plugged an Australian 12V or 32V DC appliance into a US 120V 20A AC socket...
Without the ground pin it looks the same as our ELV (Extra Low Voltage) plug and socket in Australia, used for low voltage DC wiring - they are 2-pin only, one horizontal and one vertical pin.
They are somewhat unusual these days, used to be for 32V DC remote area homes with a 32 volt DC home battery system, powered by a wind generator and/or a diesel powered home lighting plant. You could buy vacuum cleaners, washing machines, irons and lights that ran on 32V DC with these plugs. They have come back into use in the solar era, mostly for 12V DC, now sometimes used in RVs for a more reliable connection than a 12 volt cigarette lighter plug.
I have them in my home, our place is wired dual-voltage, standard Australian 240V AC power outlets throughout the home and 12V DC outlets in a couple of strategic places only - mainly to run small devices direct from the DC batteries without the inverter. They don't get used much, our usage has changed. Our battery system is 24V DC and there is a DC
C converter to provide 12V from the 24V batteries.Could be spectacular if someone plugged an Australian 12V or 32V DC appliance into a US 120V 20A AC socket...
