UNUSED GE Pot scubber Dishwasher

[panthera]

Goodness

Four and one-half hours! Nathan, that's quite something.

I guess some detail is in order. I'd sold my condo, was on my way to the US and we hit a bureaucratic snag. The brand new Miele is in a flat belonging to a dear friend in Munich. She's very much an environmentalist and noise sensitive. This generation of Mieles repeats the last program unless you change it, so I'm guessing she had every eco-option and extraleise running. 

I was only there for a month, had neither time nor interest in playing with it.

Unless they're three-phase, German dishwashers were generally derated down to 10 amps after reunification. Munich runs pretty steady at 230V so I doubt it's the heating, despite the cold water and low power heating. Just the way it was programmed.

 

 

[Chetlaham]

Time

I downloaded the Service manual for this machine (Thanks Robert!!!!! ) and a normal cycle appears to be 40 minutes with a 21 minute dry and 71 minutes on the pot-scrubber cycle. It seems the next engineering revision, GSD950-02 changes the dry time to 31 minutes and the manual even mentions 9 minutes were added due to short drying.

Over all I am really impressed with potscrubber II machines. Had GE added a filter I think this could easily have been a major hit across us homes.

 

[panthera]

Ge Potscrubber II

The service manual on these is hilarious to read. GE flat out admits that they were rolled out too early and the details on all the flaws and how they were fixed/minimized is beyond words funny.

And that's what killed them - by the time GE had them fixed, people had had it with their awful performance, horrible service record and the really bad customer service GE in far too many places had on offer at the time.

Same stupid mentality as Microshrott with their intentionally too small teams and too tight deadlines.

 

 

 

[Chetlaham]

I agree, I got a kick out of reading it lol. Apparently sump boots had been coming off. Word of that spreading would be the ultimate black eye. And the others like no click lock on the push buttons and condensation on critical components are certainly rushed engineering. Changing a timer is a pain as well to gain 9 minutes of dry time or lockable push-buttons. Half the machine needs to be rewired.

I think what ultimately failed GE was starting from the top down rather then from the bottom up. Incorporating a first generation perma tuff design to a BOL would have been far easier then attempting a never before designed or tested wash system with a complex rapid advance timer. Not only did that ruin the honeymoon, but it kept mediocre plastisol tub machines on the market for another 9 years. GE's top priority should have been those since they were bringing down reputation one rust spot at a time.

 

[volsboy1]

Sorry,I don't agree with the water uses and pump designs..The Old K-Aids that have the big motor will last for 20 years or more  but now we have been replacing these new ones every 3 to 4 years..So how does that save anything in the long run?The only people that win are the companies that sell them. The only new dishwasher brand that I trust is Miele .My 1984 Superba just now quit and died after 32 years that is not bad at all and you will not find a new one that will last that long. All these eco wing nuts can build them a out house and just quit bathing and cut there power off but, then nobody would want to be near them because they smell like shit and they would have no purpose in life so hey it would be a win win for us..

 

 

[Chetlaham]

Longevity

There was a time when even a BOL machine would last you 20-25 years.

 

[combo52]

Longevity Of GE Built [ and other ] DWs In The 60s-70s

In families of at least 4 persons and being run at least once a day. These numbers are based on mine and several other technicians that I worked closely with during the 70s and through today.

 

GE Plastisol drop door DWs 62-66 4-10 years, these usually either rusted out or the motor relay stuck and took out the motor.

 

GE Plastisol DD DWs 67-81 5-10 years, usually were replaced because of rust through of the door or tank in the sump area, other trouble spots were timers and motors and pump.

 

Westinghouse DD DWs from 65-70 4-8 years, problem areas were main pump seal and ruined motors, leaks many places, bad door seals and broken door latches.

 

WH 71-74 4-6 years severe pump problems that often took the motor with it, plus it was such a piss poor DW that most people could not wait to replace it.

 

D&M DWs 1964-84 5-10 years, pump problems, bad motors, leaks around door and vent plate, the problems with these poor quality DWs going into the 70s kept getting worse, almost ever part of D&M DWs was substandard right down to the cheap rubber drain hoses that would split if you looked at it wrong, LOL.

 

WP DWs 1964-72 6-8 years, problem areas main pump, detergent dispensers.

 

WP DWs 73-84 8-14 years WP DWs got a lot better through the 70s and into the 80s, they made a huge improvement in pump durability when they started selling DWs to Sears in 1985 in all their DWs.

 

KA DWs 1964-75 these include KD 15 through 17 series DWs 10-20 years, KAs were in a class by them selves, and while they were not the most trouble free DW they were easy to fix and usually worth fixing partly because of the good performance and the high cost of the DW itself.

 

KA KD-18s through KD21s 10-16 years, as KAs became more complex and cycles got longer their longevity got shorter.

 

Most frequent reason for replacement of KAs were bad main motors and generally poor overall condition [ rusted racks etc ].

 

Dishwashers are historically the most replaced major appliance, the same seems true today. About the only major appliance that we are replacing more often today are Over-The-Range MWOs which I strongly advise against having. These are all averages , many many DWs can and did last much longer, just like many many of today's appliances WILL be going strong in 25-35 years from now.

 

We replace a lot of DWs today, but overall they average around 15 years of age when scraped, 75% could be repaired but because of high repair cost most people chose a new DW as the real price of a DW is much less than it was in the 60s-70s.

 

John L.

 

 

[panthera]

John,

That was fascinating, thank you!

Over the range microwave ovens seem only one step above BIC pens in longevity. We picked up a stainless steel GE spacemaker II (Japanese) for $5.00 in perfect physical condition. It had 'stopped working' the first day it had been installed because the in-duh-vi-duals had boiled a big pot of water for spaghetti right under it. Imagine that, heat and steam and condensing water being bad for exposed electronics!

 

Replaced a few components, put it under a counter above the trash compactor and it's been happy (slow, but happy, they're all slow) for many years now. 

 

If I had to put a microwave above a stove, I'd go for a purely mechanical timer and the simplest LC circuit to drive the magnetron I could find. With a second fan to divert moisture/grease laden air away from the LCcircuit (transformer, diode, capacitor, tube).

After all, lots of 1970s low-high ranges with microwaves on top are still nuking popcorn.

 

Why do you suppose consumers put up with such poor quality back then? We obviously don't, look how often you get asked arcane questions about how to improve a GE this, that or the other...

 

[Chetlaham]

80s

Didn't DW longevity peak in these times?

 

[panthera]

I've done quite a few GE electromechnaical

Dishwashers in the last two years and there's a real improvement in quality between the '74 and the '84 and then a really quick slide into just good enough after that.

YMMV, but much as I dislike Whirlpool in general, GE really went to the dogs during the Welch era.

Sort of like GM in the first decade of the 2000s - all the gains they'd made in the '90s were wiped out completely.

 

[combo52]

80s Dishwashers

I think performance peaked in the 80s-the 90s and reliability was also good, but overall current DWs are holding up pretty well, I think we will just have to wait another 10-15 years to see how many current DWs survive.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

GE dishwasher sounds

GE dishwashers had unmistakeable sounds that meant business to me. Everything from the pump motor, to the swashing of the spray arms. I also like how the motor does a vibrating roar when it tries to pick up water force.

 

[johnb300m]

Meaning business

LOL!
Many others would say (like me) all those shaded pole motor vibrations and roars were consequences of cheapness and poor dampening.
GE also HAD to have large water consumption and large jets because they refused to design any filter systems for their dishwashers.

Like John's fantastic market insight, my family members have had great dishwasher luck over the years with various brands.
The KAs always lasted the longest.
Only one KA was taken out by the high iron content of my aunts' well water and the stainless tub rusted.
Our GEs have all lasted 12-18yrs except for the BOL GE that came with our house, that lasted 7.
The WPs lasted just as long.
One "tall tub" Maytag I know of, lasted the least possibly of user neglect.

I know the modern machines are heavily scorned in this community, and sometimes rightly so. But if you get a good one with good electronics, there's no reason those won't last the average 7-12 years. Just like the seemingly hallowed machines of the 70s.

 

[jeffb]

Not quite a '78 but...my parents bought their current house new in '85 and they've never used the dishwasher. I'm pretty sure it's a GE, next time I'm there I'll take a pic.

 

[miele_ge]

they have a built in dishwasher and have never used it??

Wow,  i can see not buying one but to not use one that is just sitting there doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Why have one?

Why have one if you don't use it? If I were them, I'd use it to my advantage. I'd take a loud noisy roaring GE dishwasher, or any brand of dishwasher for that matter over washing dishes by hand. I'm not gonna complain.

 

[DADoES]

 
It's surprising how many people have dishwashers but don't use them, presumably on the erroneous assumption that they cost $$$$$$ to run.

 

[johnb300m]

You're absolutely right DaDos, and age don't matter. Young n old they think it's wasteful to run a machine with a motor for 2-3 hrs and that fills to the TOP with dozens of gallons of water!
Much faster n cheaper to just hand wash (eye roll)

 

[jeffb]

Lol, yes, my Mom is an odd bird. She never owned a dishwasher until they bought that house in '85 and it was already installed. She's convinced it wouldn't clean as well as she does by hand. She just uses it for storage. She also has a very nice Maytag electric dryer from the early '60's that has seen very little use.

 

[DADoES]

 
I recall 40-ish years ago when relatives were visiting for Thanksgiving or Christmas or some such holiday after we'd gotten the KDI-17a.  We loaded it up after the meal, packed to the brim as typical, and used the Soak cycle.  My mother's aunt sat watching it warily, and remarked "I guess it has to fill" when it stopped spraying for the soak period ... I suppose envisioning that the tub filled like a washing machine and the dishes then whirled and sloshed around.