UNUSED GE Pot scubber Dishwasher

[delaneymeegan]

Even Grace Adler's mother thought GE was best.

 

 

 

The TOL 1978 GE with the added panel indicator, showing at what point the dishwasher was at in the cycle.

 

.

 

 

[delaneymeegan]

I wonder however.....

 

 

 

 

The original poster of this thread, may have had the date wrong.  The mol dw looks more like 1977, than 1978.

 

Here is the TOL from 1977.  Notice how the vent is in the middle on both this ad, and the dw shown at the beginning.  The 1978, featuring the new GE TUFF tub that was with us for many years, has the vent in the upper left corner of the door.

 

Also, the console on the 1977 was real chrome metal that had removable ends, whereas the 1978 is a one piece plastic escutcheon covered in a chrome finish.

 

 

[delaneymeegan]

 

The 1977's had a burl wood background behind the graphics, whereas on the 1978 it was wood grained.

 

The 1977's had a dark colored access panel, whereas the 1978 had a color matched panel that matches the door.

 

 

[combo52]

Water Heaters In DWs

Plumbed in Flow-Through style waters are not one bit more efficient in heating water or in cost of operation than an exposed coil in the bottom of a US style DW, if there is any difference the coil in the bottom of a DW would be more efficient because ALL the heat is IN the DW with the dishes and water with no radiant loss from the tube style heater under the DW, but in either case we would be splitting hairs as there is truly no difference.

 

[vacerator]

John, re; heating coils

I would think that a submerged calrod would be more efficient.
When my dad used to service DM and Whirlpools, he told me in the sanitize rinse cycle, the heater coil only raise the water temp 1 degree f. every five minutes or so.
My GE does have a thicker calrod than my former Whirlpool from the 90's did.
It completes a sanitized cycle in 86 minutes, less in summer. It is on an outside wall, and I keep my water heater on one mark above warm, about 130 f.

 

[combo52]

Submerged Heaters In DWs

Its Not more efficient, do your research, just because you assume it is better does not make it better.

 

[panthera]

I'm a bit curious

As to why the decisions were made to cut those phosphates which don't cause eutrophication. 

Why the decision was made to remove chlorine bleach (which rapidly becomes harmless salt).

Why the decision was made to lower temperatures to the exact right level to breed microbes while cleaning nothing.

Why the decision was made to 'save' so much water that one must now pre-rinse with gallons and gallons (and pre-wash, often as not).

Why food-choppers (they're not really disposals) were removed in nearly all systems.

Was any thought given to this or was it just a case of idiot politicians plus clueless corporations? And, I do mean clueless - look at the rinse-aide, control board and heating-coil fires of the last few years and compare them to all the fires of the fifty odd years previously.

Not to mention the Whirlaide motors with their designed-to-fail seals.

 

[combo52]

I'm a bit curious

Well I guess if you can't figure any of these questions yourself you don't know much about appliances, you should read more and post less , LOL.

 

[Chetlaham]

Reasons...

What are those reasons? Ive been reading and reading and I am still as mystified as the day I heard about such.

I see no reason why self cleaning filters needed to be removed from DW.

 

[johnb300m]

1. Uhhh, phosphates are a leading cause of algal blooms in lakes, rivers and streams, which are a detriment to the environment.
2. Some detergents still use chlorine bleach. Others use oxygen bleaches.
3. 120 degrees is more than efficient to clean a normal load of dishes with good detergent and a good wash/spray system. If you don't want bacteria (which is such a low risk it's almost humorous) then use your Sanitize cycle/option.
4. Eco water saving machines took a few years to work out the kinks, but if you look in the Blue section of the forum, there's mounting evidence of new dishwashers using mere 2-6gal of water per cycle, with NO pre-rinsing, and coming out perfectly clean. If you choose to disregard actual user experiences.....then nobody can help you.
5. Food choppers were removed in the hunt for more efficient, smaller motors in order to use less water and energy. I'm a food chopper fan, but with a new filter dishwasher, I've not missed it at all. Millions of chopper-free dishwashers run in Europe every day, and make perfectly clean dishes. It's just not a feature that enough consumers demand anymore.
6. I think your impression of modern, Energy Saving appliances is grossly overstated. Are you even paying attention to the looming global water crisis of dwindling fresh ground/lakewater and encroaching saltwater? If my appliances can save me money on my utility bills and use less coal and less water and still perform to my satisfaction, awesome. If you can't find ANYTHING out there that meets your satisfaction, then I'm sorry. Market forces with nudges from government agency have produced the market we have today. And consumers seem to be generally OK with it. If they were not? You'd see more revolts in purchasing pressures and complaints to BBB and Federal Trade Commission on fraudulent goods in the market.

In summary: Whaaaaaaahhhhhhhh :'(

 

[joeypete]

John!

lol. OMG. You're killing me. Sassy pants

 

[washer111]

I don't hold the opinion 120º is enough for washing.

For most loads, its perfectly adequate, although used frequently enough, I found previously that odours can and would buildup in our machine.
Also was nowhere near impressed on plenty of occasions the way the dishes came out after a greasy load went through at this sort of temperature, both in terms of odour and "feel" of the dishes. 'Clean,' but you could tell something was amiss.

Quite happy to keep hotter washing temperatures. It can be attained in environmentally-friendly means - solar water heating is installed in a lot of people's homes in the world... Although everyone seems to ignore this when discussing "environmental and monetary benefits of washing in frigid water."

And on water usage, even the average vintage machine uses less water than it generally takes to wash a capacity load by hand - especially people like me who start by rinsing everything, filling the sink with hot water, rinsing all the soap off afterwards and replacing sink water as it gets dirty.
Those YouTube peanuts who claim they can wash with less water than a dishwasher evidently haven't tried washing a full set of 12 place settings, encrusted pots and pans, utensils and the like. Plenty of things like that need good running water and huge amounts of effort to achieve anything.

The main place water is wasted, as I see it, is in industrial processes. The average home user contributes so much less than many industrial operations not only to pollution, but water usage and damage to waterways (i.e. from phosphates) that it isn't funny. Whats happened is like plugging a pin prick hole in a dyke when there is a huge leak just a km away threatening to flood a town.

 

[panthera]

Johnb300m

1. Uhhh, phosphates are a leading cause of algal blooms in lakes, rivers and streams, which are a detriment to the environment.
Depends on the 'phosphates'.  Neither TSP nor STTP contribute one iota to algal bloom.
2. Somedetergents still use chlorine bleach. Others use oxygen bleaches.

Good to know, thank you. 
3. 120 degrees is more than efficient to clean a normal load of dishes with good detergent and a good wash/spray system. If you don't want bacteria (which is such a low risk it's almost humorous) then use your Sanitize cycle/option.

I have not seen that to be true. Then again, I don't prewash and I do expect spotless performance, including on oatmeal and baked on eggs/starch. As to the bacteria and mold, 120F isn't enough, not by a long shot.
4. Eco water saving machines took a few years to work out the kinks, but if you look in the Blue section of the forum, there's mounting evidence of new dishwashers using mere 2-6gal of water per cycle, with NO pre-rinsing, and coming out perfectly clean. If you choose to disregard actual user experiences.....then nobody can help you.

My last European dishwasher (I'm German) was a 2014 TOL Miele. It did, indeed, clean well. Took four hours, nearly. Unacceptable. Still needed the 75C program to really clean naked on food.
5. Food choppers were removed in the hunt for more efficient, smaller motors in order to use less water and energy. I'm a food chopper fan, but with a new filter dishwasher, I've not missed it at all. Millions of chopper-free dishwashers run in Europe every day, and make perfectly clean dishes. It's just not a feature that enough consumers demand anymore.

Yeah, I spent nearly my entire adult life cleaning those damn filters. Unacceptable. 
6. I think your impression of modern, Energy Saving appliances is grossly overstated. Are you even paying attention to the looming global water crisis of dwindling fresh ground/lakewater and encroaching saltwater? If my appliances can save me money on my utility bills and use less coal and less water and still perform to my satisfaction, awesome. If you can't find ANYTHING out there that meets your satisfaction, then I'm sorry. Market forces with nudges from government agency have produced the market we have today. And consumers seem to be generally OK with it. If they were not? You'd see more revolts in purchasing pressures and complaints to BBB and Federal Trade Commission on fraudulent goods in the market.

Consumer water use is nothing compared to the damage done by fracking. It's politically correct, but just plain irrelevant. I want my dishes clean, my machine reasonably sanitary and I refuse to waste my time and hot water pre-rinsing.

In summary: Whaaaaaaahhhhhhhh :'(

 

My questions are not whinging, they're relevant.

 

[tolivac]

Phospates----We EMIT more when we use the bathroom-and runoff from lawns and such from rain and watering-another phosphate source.Used in fertilizers and lawn,plant treatments.What comes from detergents is really minor-not worth the ballyhoo.And there are phosphate mines in my area and other places in the South.

 

[joeypete]

I have to agree on phosphates from detergent usage. Now that they are not used at all (or in minimal trace amounts) in the US, I really don't feel guilty using STPP in my laundry or dishwasher use. The percentage of people using phosphates as an additive is extremely small. Hell, my good friend is very environmentally conscious and she didn't even know anything about STPP. So I'm not worried.

I'm all for conserving energy and saving water if needed. But in my opinion, it depends on where you are. Here in the northeast we do not have a water shortage, and rarely do. So I don't feel guilty either about using older appliances that use more water...especially when I don't pay for my water usage. It's just not an issue for me. Reducing hot water usage is strictly a money thing. I mean if people are willing to pay more, why not let them use as much hot water as they want? But I do know that modern appliances that restrict hot water usage still clean exceptionally well. I'm not wearing a blindfold when it comes to reality.

So I can see both sides of the spectrum. Of course, me Mr. Moderate. LOL

 

[panthera]

Joeypete

You're right.

There's also the not so minor fact that modern water treatment facilities recover organically accessible phosphate compounds.

I find it a bit ironic that those arguing I should abandon vintage appliances, hot water and real detergents for 'modern' appliances would use water treatment technology from the mid-20th century as the basis for their argument in the 21st.

We had guests this summer who are the personification of pre-scrubbing and rinsing every single dish which goes into the dishwasher.

They used up nearly 90 gallons of hot water 'saving' the 'environment' from my evil, twisted GSD Twenty Eight Hundred and it's horrid, wasteful ways.

I'm not opposed to genuine advances in technology, as a discussion here over 10 years ago thoroughly explored. Just no patience with faux-science and plastic-fantastic trash sold to clean which has to be cleaned itself, it's so anemic.

 

[Chetlaham]

I can agree with some of those statements but I call BS in terms of manufactures. I get less water and electricity is better for the planet, but a machine breaking down every few years as apposed to 30 years... something is not right with that picture.

 

[logixx]

Panthera

Did you have your Miele checked? I did look at the manual of the latest (and thus most efficient) model and the Intensive cycle is 2:40 hrs. - not almost four hours. I wonder if something ws wrong with yours.

I can attest that the 45°C Eco Intensive cycle of my Siemens cleans even baked on baking dishes / BobLoads just fine in 2:20 hrs. with Aldi powdered detergent. However, I must admit that I basically use the auto cycle with speed mode all the time, as I run the dishwasher after dinner late in the evening and still want to unload it before going to bed. Cycle time then is identical to, say, Whirlpool Power Clean machines.

I love the idea of food choppers... but the inlet to them on most machines seems too small to let pieces of meat, lettuce leaves, beans etc. pass the through and then you're still "stuck" with having to scrape dishes.

 

[panthera]

logixx,

Interestingly enough, I've never encountered a stuck drain hose in a dishwasher with a chopper blade. Must have happened, no doubt, but I've not seen it.
And, I don't pre-rinse at all.
Ever.
Yes, my last Miele took forever. I do think part of it was the way it had been reduced to 10Amp service. Big difference to my beloved 3-phase (which I would have never given up, the idiot movers dropped it down the stairs and THROUGH the glass doors right out onto Klenzestr., where it was promptly hit by a passing truck.
Sigh.
Anyway, I do think it was something like 3.47 hours at it's very worst.
Still miss the chocolate and butter and bread and coffee.

 

[Chetlaham]

Commercial

Apologies if this has been posted before but I was able to find the commercial that went with the pot-scrubber two:



I have to ask, how long is the main wash on the potscrubber two, that looks like an awful baked on mess. Yikes!