Maytag had a thermostatic water valve (part# 204436) for '06-First gen LAT models that would increase cold water temps to...if I remember correctly...75F. As far as I'm concerned, this should have been standard equipment in all washers by the late 1950's. It would be the end of poor cleaning results due to cold water and would provide solid warm temps as well. In todays realm of cold water washing, it would greatly help prevent buildup in the outer tub and keep the machine much cleaner and reduce unnecessary repair calls. I would personally increase those temps to 85F but 75F is still a big improvement over frigid water temps during the winter in most places.
Warm Rinses
- Thread starter Chetlaham
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When did thermostatic valves come to an end? What was the exact date default warm rinses began being phased out? I've never taken a washer apart older than 1970, I remember the valve both in the Maytag center dial and 70s Hotpoint rim-flo was a 2 coil- the HP had a restricter in the outgoing stream and that was it.
I agree Dan, I think more new machines should fill with warm water. 35* is just too cold.
I agree Dan, I think more new machines should fill with warm water. 35* is just too cold.
"When did thermostatic valves come to an end?"
For Maytag as standard equipment, I think it was late 60's. Some of the early 906's came from the factory with them.
Warm deep rinses seemed to end by the late 2000's on top loaders and generally available only on upper or TOL models. Most washers by this time were dumbing down temps using a restrictor on the hot side of the water valve.
For Maytag as standard equipment, I think it was late 60's. Some of the early 906's came from the factory with them.
Warm deep rinses seemed to end by the late 2000's on top loaders and generally available only on upper or TOL models. Most washers by this time were dumbing down temps using a restrictor on the hot side of the water valve.
I remember the 2000s machines. Hot/warm had become none existent. Warm/warm was only on select MOL and TOL models. Whirlpool did this thing where setting the machine to warm/warm resulted in a cold deep rinse with only the final spray rinse being warm. When I first encountered it in an Estate washer I was very upset- it felt so deceptive.
Hot restricters were in existence since the late 90s- I remember my first model T had a restrictor.
Any idea when the default ended for older machines- ie those where you could not select a cold rinse on the warm or hot settings?
Hot restricters were in existence since the late 90s- I remember my first model T had a restrictor.
Any idea when the default ended for older machines- ie those where you could not select a cold rinse on the warm or hot settings?
My Duets have Warm/warm, use it often. The duets use a thermister to control the temp. On one of them I added some resistors to raise the warm and hot temps. Been 11 years don't recall if it was in series or parallel, I'd wager it was parallel. I had thought about adding a variable resistor to make adjustment easier but never got that far.
From Collection Of Our Fearless Leader
1957 Kenmore washer - thermostatic valves were alive and well!
Count them, choice of five (5) wash temps and two (2) for rinse.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17000
1957 Kenmore washer - thermostatic valves were alive and well!
Count them, choice of five (5) wash temps and two (2) for rinse.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17000
Sending Love, Thank You!
That is so cool and luxurious! I wish my Speed Queen had that level of temp control. Any idea on the flow rate of each valve, and what coils were energized for the warm rinse setting? The cool setting would be perfect here in the winter time for when I want to wash things in "cold" water. Plus can someone select cool/cold wash with a warm rinse?
Robert has a lucky find, and well deserved.
That is so cool and luxurious! I wish my Speed Queen had that level of temp control. Any idea on the flow rate of each valve, and what coils were energized for the warm rinse setting? The cool setting would be perfect here in the winter time for when I want to wash things in "cold" water. Plus can someone select cool/cold wash with a warm rinse?
Robert has a lucky find, and well deserved.
warm rinse
This is a feature I miss quite a bit from my Duet. Loads of towels and whites were very soft and well rinsed. The fabric softener dispenser was always spotless and it would spread through the towels far more evenly compared to a cold rinse.
This is a feature I miss quite a bit from my Duet. Loads of towels and whites were very soft and well rinsed. The fabric softener dispenser was always spotless and it would spread through the towels far more evenly compared to a cold rinse.
Think reason at least SQ laundromat washers one has seen and used send hot water through FS dispenser. Cold water flows through other paths so overall water temperature isn't likely raised by much, however it does seem to make a difference in dispensing FS.
Mind you some of the stuff people use still leaves a gloppy mess regardless of water temperature. You want to look inside dispenser carefully when choosing a washer. Doing otherwise one can end up with laundry scented by whatever FS slop remains in dispenser.
Mind you some of the stuff people use still leaves a gloppy mess regardless of water temperature. You want to look inside dispenser carefully when choosing a washer. Doing otherwise one can end up with laundry scented by whatever FS slop remains in dispenser.
See pages 30-31 and 43-44
https://www.google.com/books/editio...v=1&dq=Warm+Rinse+laundry&printsec=frontcover
https://www.google.com/books/editio...v=1&dq=Warm+Rinse+laundry&printsec=frontcover
Water flow rate on older belt, drive whirlpool washers
Older belt drive washer basically did not have a flow washer in the inlet valves. It was one of the only machines I saw that did not have a flow washer as a result especially on the warm setting they filled at a rate of almost 20 gallons a minute. This is why the spray rinsing whirlpool used was so effective, even though it didn’t stay on continuously, they had to pulse it because it would quickly over the pump out capacity of the pump.
John
Older belt drive washer basically did not have a flow washer in the inlet valves. It was one of the only machines I saw that did not have a flow washer as a result especially on the warm setting they filled at a rate of almost 20 gallons a minute. This is why the spray rinsing whirlpool used was so effective, even though it didn’t stay on continuously, they had to pulse it because it would quickly over the pump out capacity of the pump.
John
One of the reasons my '58 Frigidaire Unimatic is my all time favorite washer is it offers Hot-Warm-Cool and Cold temperatures, although it is rare I ever select a cold rinse on this machine.
The way it works is it has a 3 solenoid valve. Hot solenoid, warm solenoid and cold solenoid. The warm solenoid has the thermostatic element embedded within the flow.
Hot = Hot Solenoid energized only (water heater tap temp)
Warm = Warm Solenoid energized only for temp regulated warm (100-105F temp)
Cool = Warm Solenoid and Cold solenoid energized for about 75-80F.
Cold = Cold Solenoid energized only for tap water cold. In Minneapolis this can range from 37F in January to 75F in June-September.
The way it works is it has a 3 solenoid valve. Hot solenoid, warm solenoid and cold solenoid. The warm solenoid has the thermostatic element embedded within the flow.
Hot = Hot Solenoid energized only (water heater tap temp)
Warm = Warm Solenoid energized only for temp regulated warm (100-105F temp)
Cool = Warm Solenoid and Cold solenoid energized for about 75-80F.
Cold = Cold Solenoid energized only for tap water cold. In Minneapolis this can range from 37F in January to 75F in June-September.
I have three machines connected to a bath tub tap, can set any temp within range of the supplies/mix for wash and rinse. Two of the machine may fuss about it but can be ignored/overridden.
Oh wow, thank you again! That is really well thought out and perfect for washing fabrics of all types in all inlet temps.
Last question- how does one solenoid open both valves? Is it a single diaphragm sealing off two ports (hot and cold)? And where does the mixing take place for the thermostatic element?
I hope that in the future more washers are built with 3 coils and offer 5 wash temps and 3 rinse temps.
Last question- how does one solenoid open both valves? Is it a single diaphragm sealing off two ports (hot and cold)? And where does the mixing take place for the thermostatic element?
I hope that in the future more washers are built with 3 coils and offer 5 wash temps and 3 rinse temps.
All of one's automatic (and semi-automatic for that matter) washers are used with quick connect hoses. Thus water temps for wash or rinse are what one chooses from taps.
My older Miele doesn't seem to mind filling with warm or even hot water. One doesn't do "hot" out of fears for and or otherwise protecting triple "cold" inlet valve. That solenoid is long out of stock and quite rare. Don't know what one will do once it goes.
IIRC one can program newer Miele washers for "cold fill" and thus use whatever water comes from taps.
My AEG washers are another matter.
Because they are all cold fill and don't like it when incoming water is hotter than whatever programmed parameters say for wash, pre-wash or soak.
According my our AEG tech machine then becomes "confused" and takes measures to sort itself out. One of them being time is deducted from cycle (heating phase), but may shorten cycle in other ways by leaving bits out.
Sincerely hope those doing warm rinses with h-axis washers are leaving doors open after wash day to machine can air out. This is as it should be but is more important if water left in machine is warm.
My older Miele doesn't seem to mind filling with warm or even hot water. One doesn't do "hot" out of fears for and or otherwise protecting triple "cold" inlet valve. That solenoid is long out of stock and quite rare. Don't know what one will do once it goes.
IIRC one can program newer Miele washers for "cold fill" and thus use whatever water comes from taps.
My AEG washers are another matter.
Because they are all cold fill and don't like it when incoming water is hotter than whatever programmed parameters say for wash, pre-wash or soak.
According my our AEG tech machine then becomes "confused" and takes measures to sort itself out. One of them being time is deducted from cycle (heating phase), but may shorten cycle in other ways by leaving bits out.
Sincerely hope those doing warm rinses with h-axis washers are leaving doors open after wash day to machine can air out. This is as it should be but is more important if water left in machine is warm.
Using a warm rinse
Will definitely contribute to mold and mildew problems in top load and front load washers alike unless the load was bleached, bacteria, etc. goes crazy in the clothing and the machine.
And of course the warmer, the water, the greater deterioration of hoses, water pumps and other parts of the machine although it’s probably slight, it’s always better to leave things in a cool or cold state they will last longer and there’s less corrosion of metal parts the colder you get them.
John
Will definitely contribute to mold and mildew problems in top load and front load washers alike unless the load was bleached, bacteria, etc. goes crazy in the clothing and the machine.
And of course the warmer, the water, the greater deterioration of hoses, water pumps and other parts of the machine although it’s probably slight, it’s always better to leave things in a cool or cold state they will last longer and there’s less corrosion of metal parts the colder you get them.
John
Using a warm rinse will definitely contribute to mold and mildew problems in top load and front load washers
In vintage top loaders I have never found any evidence what so ever of that being true. Several of my machines 70+ year old machines still have their original aluminum pumps and they are in fine condition and work perfectly such as the ABC-o-Matic, Kelvinator, Maytag AMP, Hotpoint, Horton, Wards, etc.
The machines dry out much faster and more thoroughly with a warm rinse. My machines also have zero mold and mildew in them, if they did you would be able to smell it and my machines all have nothing but a clean scent from inside the tub. I not convinced in any way that a cold rinse is preferable over a warm rinse in a vintage machine.
This very well may be the case in modern front loaders but nothing that a sanitary cycle once a week with bleach can't prevent.
In vintage top loaders I have never found any evidence what so ever of that being true. Several of my machines 70+ year old machines still have their original aluminum pumps and they are in fine condition and work perfectly such as the ABC-o-Matic, Kelvinator, Maytag AMP, Hotpoint, Horton, Wards, etc.
The machines dry out much faster and more thoroughly with a warm rinse. My machines also have zero mold and mildew in them, if they did you would be able to smell it and my machines all have nothing but a clean scent from inside the tub. I not convinced in any way that a cold rinse is preferable over a warm rinse in a vintage machine.
This very well may be the case in modern front loaders but nothing that a sanitary cycle once a week with bleach can't prevent.
Don't believe it's a fair race to lump top loading washers with H-axis vis-a-vis possible mold or other fungus growth.
By nature most H-axis washers must have some sort of rubber seal (boot) that forms water tight seal when door is closed. If door is closed after wash day with a front loader (regardless of final rinse temperature) and left that way for long periods, you're asking for trouble.
Top loading washers don't have such seals and thus air can still circulate. Indeed main gripe from Americans about front loaders going back to early days of Bendix and others is being told to leave door open after wash day. That is totally alien concept to those who have used top loaders and they will let anyone know themselves, their mothers or anyone else they know has never left lid on washer up.
One of the many nails in coffin of Maytag Neptune washers (which ultimately killed that company as well), was fact Maytag did *NOT* prepare owners that door must be left open after wash day. Even when told to do so Americans largely did not and rest was history.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/maytag_lawsuit.html
By nature most H-axis washers must have some sort of rubber seal (boot) that forms water tight seal when door is closed. If door is closed after wash day with a front loader (regardless of final rinse temperature) and left that way for long periods, you're asking for trouble.
Top loading washers don't have such seals and thus air can still circulate. Indeed main gripe from Americans about front loaders going back to early days of Bendix and others is being told to leave door open after wash day. That is totally alien concept to those who have used top loaders and they will let anyone know themselves, their mothers or anyone else they know has never left lid on washer up.
One of the many nails in coffin of Maytag Neptune washers (which ultimately killed that company as well), was fact Maytag did *NOT* prepare owners that door must be left open after wash day. Even when told to do so Americans largely did not and rest was history.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/maytag_lawsuit.html
Sorry, top load washers do have big mold problems
Including vintage machines, my 52 unimatic I could never get the moldy smell out of even with many hot washes and lots of bleach, until I finally tore the machine apart and scrubbed it all out from under the top, the outside of the inner basket and the entire inside of the outer tub cabinet assembly.
GE top load Filter Flow washers were very known for mold and stinky smells, one of the worst ones I ever saw the customer used warm, wash, warm, rinse all the time the thing was pink and moldy and black.
With new machines, we see horrible problems with it. Everybody has seen whirlpool, direct Drive washers that are all sketchy in the outer tub and black and moldy especially some of the energy star machines that use such cool water and people use Eco detergents we see top load washers all the time where the holes in the basket start to fill with black moldy gunk.
Both Jason and I and my brother have all seen hundreds of top load washers with mold problems.
As I said it’s not a very big factor but it’s just plain engineering sense that the colder you keep anything the longer it will last that’s why we keep food in the refrigerator and freezer. Everything deteriorates faster the warmer it is including the cotton clothing.
John
Including vintage machines, my 52 unimatic I could never get the moldy smell out of even with many hot washes and lots of bleach, until I finally tore the machine apart and scrubbed it all out from under the top, the outside of the inner basket and the entire inside of the outer tub cabinet assembly.
GE top load Filter Flow washers were very known for mold and stinky smells, one of the worst ones I ever saw the customer used warm, wash, warm, rinse all the time the thing was pink and moldy and black.
With new machines, we see horrible problems with it. Everybody has seen whirlpool, direct Drive washers that are all sketchy in the outer tub and black and moldy especially some of the energy star machines that use such cool water and people use Eco detergents we see top load washers all the time where the holes in the basket start to fill with black moldy gunk.
Both Jason and I and my brother have all seen hundreds of top load washers with mold problems.
As I said it’s not a very big factor but it’s just plain engineering sense that the colder you keep anything the longer it will last that’s why we keep food in the refrigerator and freezer. Everything deteriorates faster the warmer it is including the cotton clothing.
John
