In a recent Maytag thread someone was commenting on how they increased the standard washtime back to 12 minutes from 10 when the center dial was discontinued. Norge had the shortest of 8 minutes while Unimatics had 10 max. Most other brands usually had a max time if 15. Why all the variance?
Wash times from brand to brand
- Thread starter lesto
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many reasons
One of the reasons was just plain the fixed cycle length of simple electro-mechanical timers. Since each cycle was a fixed length, there were only so and so many minutes you could devote to each step.
Another reason was the fact that TLs tend to be very hard on clothes compared to FLs, though not as bad as some twin-tub Hoovers. If you thrashed and tangled the clothes for too long, they could not recover and were damaged.
Another reason is that, very simply, almost all the dirt which can be removed will be removed in the first few minutes.
It is interesting to note that over here in Europe (except those machines in the UK which miraculously run 10 times faster than anything I ever describe
)) the wash cycles are very much longer than in the US; there are many more rinse cycles and the final spins are considerably faster.
These things all led to mechanical timers which were much more failure prone than the simple US timers. I have replaced lots of timer motors in US machines over the years. Only once replaced a timer itself - and that was in a rollermatic which was abused by dorm kids constantly.
But the mechanical wonders over here failed much more frequently than many other parts which were less complex.
One of the reasons was just plain the fixed cycle length of simple electro-mechanical timers. Since each cycle was a fixed length, there were only so and so many minutes you could devote to each step.
Another reason was the fact that TLs tend to be very hard on clothes compared to FLs, though not as bad as some twin-tub Hoovers. If you thrashed and tangled the clothes for too long, they could not recover and were damaged.
Another reason is that, very simply, almost all the dirt which can be removed will be removed in the first few minutes.
It is interesting to note that over here in Europe (except those machines in the UK which miraculously run 10 times faster than anything I ever describe
)) the wash cycles are very much longer than in the US; there are many more rinse cycles and the final spins are considerably faster.These things all led to mechanical timers which were much more failure prone than the simple US timers. I have replaced lots of timer motors in US machines over the years. Only once replaced a timer itself - and that was in a rollermatic which was abused by dorm kids constantly.
But the mechanical wonders over here failed much more frequently than many other parts which were less complex.
Wash times from brand to brand
Hi Les,
I was the one that made that comment, and I think the norge was actually 10 minutes but it only showed 8 on the time line. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) In fact on my moms first Hotpoint the max time was 10 minutes for wash. (It was a 55)
On the Maytags earlier center dial had I think was actually 14 minutes, than they went to 12 and cut it down to 10 minutes from the late sixties until they discontinued the center dial. I think they didn't have enought room on the center dial to make it 12 minutes. The very early Whirlpools I think went up to 20 minutes. Than they went to 14 minutes almost forever. It's amazing when comparing the cycle times of todays machines. Especially the front loaders that run very long.
Peter
Hi Les,
I was the one that made that comment, and I think the norge was actually 10 minutes but it only showed 8 on the time line. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) In fact on my moms first Hotpoint the max time was 10 minutes for wash. (It was a 55)
On the Maytags earlier center dial had I think was actually 14 minutes, than they went to 12 and cut it down to 10 minutes from the late sixties until they discontinued the center dial. I think they didn't have enought room on the center dial to make it 12 minutes. The very early Whirlpools I think went up to 20 minutes. Than they went to 14 minutes almost forever. It's amazing when comparing the cycle times of todays machines. Especially the front loaders that run very long.
Peter
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Longer Life, Too
Since TL washers do most of their work in the first few minutes of agitation, I wonder if shorter cycle times weren't a way of getting more years out of a machine? Look at it this way- if a machine has a ten-minute cycle, it should last fifty percent more washes (though not total hours of use) than one with a fifteen-minute cycle. In the days when Maytag was very committed to legendary reliability and lifespan, that could have been a factor. Just easier on the machine per washload, and the extra wash time isn't usually all that necessary anyway.
Since TL washers do most of their work in the first few minutes of agitation, I wonder if shorter cycle times weren't a way of getting more years out of a machine? Look at it this way- if a machine has a ten-minute cycle, it should last fifty percent more washes (though not total hours of use) than one with a fifteen-minute cycle. In the days when Maytag was very committed to legendary reliability and lifespan, that could have been a factor. Just easier on the machine per washload, and the extra wash time isn't usually all that necessary anyway.
Wash times from brand to brand
Hi Sandy,
I think the things that wear out the machines were the fact that they had a lot of moving parts and switching from wash to spin etc etc. I do think a longer wash should always be optional. Like for example in the older GE's they had a 12 minute wash but had a Extra wash setting up to 18 minutes I think for real soiled clothes. For instance the 1/18's went up to a 15 minute wash but that long was seldom needed, most of the time with even a large load I used a 8 or 10 minute wash. The JetAction was something to me that really cleaned in a shorter time.
Peter
Hi Sandy,
I think the things that wear out the machines were the fact that they had a lot of moving parts and switching from wash to spin etc etc. I do think a longer wash should always be optional. Like for example in the older GE's they had a 12 minute wash but had a Extra wash setting up to 18 minutes I think for real soiled clothes. For instance the 1/18's went up to a 15 minute wash but that long was seldom needed, most of the time with even a large load I used a 8 or 10 minute wash. The JetAction was something to me that really cleaned in a shorter time.
Peter
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Peter:
I understand what you're saying about having the option of a longer wash time. I just was wondering if the short Maytag wash times weren't an engineering decision, intended to make the machine last as many years as possible. On the "New Generation" machines of the 1960s and 1970s, Maytag had that whole ad campaign built around how long their machines had been working for typical American families. And as corny as the ads look today, they sold a whole lotta Maytags.
On my Maytag LA108, the Permanent Press and Delicate cycles are a maximum of eight minutes. The Regular cycle will give you only ten. I was a little nonplussed when I saw that, but damned if the clothes don't come out cleaner than they did in my DD Whirly. BTW, that Delicate cycle took some getting used to- this is a one-speed machine so it agitates, then sits, agitates, then sits. Whatthehell, it works.
I understand what you're saying about having the option of a longer wash time. I just was wondering if the short Maytag wash times weren't an engineering decision, intended to make the machine last as many years as possible. On the "New Generation" machines of the 1960s and 1970s, Maytag had that whole ad campaign built around how long their machines had been working for typical American families. And as corny as the ads look today, they sold a whole lotta Maytags.
On my Maytag LA108, the Permanent Press and Delicate cycles are a maximum of eight minutes. The Regular cycle will give you only ten. I was a little nonplussed when I saw that, but damned if the clothes don't come out cleaner than they did in my DD Whirly. BTW, that Delicate cycle took some getting used to- this is a one-speed machine so it agitates, then sits, agitates, then sits. Whatthehell, it works.
Wash times from brand to brand
Hi Sandy,
I still think Maytag kept it at 10 minutes because their wasn't as much room on the center dial machines. The machine you have sounds like a fabric matic that soaks on and off instead of a 2 speed that goes real slow. What ever it is built real well and never will washers be made like that again.
Peter
Hi Sandy,
I still think Maytag kept it at 10 minutes because their wasn't as much room on the center dial machines. The machine you have sounds like a fabric matic that soaks on and off instead of a 2 speed that goes real slow. What ever it is built real well and never will washers be made like that again.
Peter
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Peter:
You could be right- wouldn't it be fun to interview some folks in Newton and find out?
You're right that there will probably never be machines like mine again- this thing looks like it was built to military specs. Dryer's the same way.
You could be right- wouldn't it be fun to interview some folks in Newton and find out?
You're right that there will probably never be machines like mine again- this thing looks like it was built to military specs. Dryer's the same way.
I suspect the
actual washing action was not especially hard on the machines. The reciprocal agitation is, after all, hardly a new mechanical design.
It was the shift from agitation to spin, the enormous load of draining water and spinning (partially relieved by the neutral drain some models used) and the braking which, in my opinion, which caused wear and tear.
Partially because of patent limitations, partially because US companies did very little real new engineering, all those new programs of the 1950's had to be accommodated using the same, fixed stepper-cycle length of the original timers. There used to be lots of blank space on early dials where you turned and turned and nothing happened. By the time they had added delicate, permanent press, soak, second-rinse, etc. those 360° were being squared.
The washing action did vary tremendously, nothing comes even close to a thumper - I figure they were the only TL which ever really, truly came close to FLs in getting laundry clean. My rollermatic (the days she decided to work) could clean my grungiest jeans and T-shirts in one go; the turnover was just fantastic. And, if I recall rightly, the water consumption was not that bad, either.
Oh, well. Now that we have fuzzy logic controls, has anyone noticed their top-loader doing a better job of washing than the same brand did with the old mechanical "logic"?
actual washing action was not especially hard on the machines. The reciprocal agitation is, after all, hardly a new mechanical design.
It was the shift from agitation to spin, the enormous load of draining water and spinning (partially relieved by the neutral drain some models used) and the braking which, in my opinion, which caused wear and tear.
Partially because of patent limitations, partially because US companies did very little real new engineering, all those new programs of the 1950's had to be accommodated using the same, fixed stepper-cycle length of the original timers. There used to be lots of blank space on early dials where you turned and turned and nothing happened. By the time they had added delicate, permanent press, soak, second-rinse, etc. those 360° were being squared.
The washing action did vary tremendously, nothing comes even close to a thumper - I figure they were the only TL which ever really, truly came close to FLs in getting laundry clean. My rollermatic (the days she decided to work) could clean my grungiest jeans and T-shirts in one go; the turnover was just fantastic. And, if I recall rightly, the water consumption was not that bad, either.
Oh, well. Now that we have fuzzy logic controls, has anyone noticed their top-loader doing a better job of washing than the same brand did with the old mechanical "logic"?
gefliterflo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2007
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My old Kenmore from 1995, the highest time you could select was 14 minutes, but the lowest was 4 (6 on the normal cycle). Although my Atlantis is 9 minutes on the Light selection, 12-15 on Normal, and 18-21 on Heavy. I really dont know how it can be 12-15 and 18-21, why not just 18 or 12 minutes?
zipdang
Well-known member
I really dont know how it can be 12-15 and 18-21
Does it have anything to do with the size of the timer increment, i.e. 1.5, 2, and 3 minute timer advances? Since the increments alloted to the spins and rinse are also affected by timer advancement, a machine with a 3 minute rinse couldn't have an 8 minute and 10 minute wash, it would have to be 9 and 12 minutes, respectively.
I hope that made sense.
Does it have anything to do with the size of the timer increment, i.e. 1.5, 2, and 3 minute timer advances? Since the increments alloted to the spins and rinse are also affected by timer advancement, a machine with a 3 minute rinse couldn't have an 8 minute and 10 minute wash, it would have to be 9 and 12 minutes, respectively.
I hope that made sense.
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,993
clothes wahsed for 10 minutes get as cean as clothes washed
watch this video, see the action, notice the large amount of water. much more "active" than a cylinder tumble.
watch this video, see the action, notice the large amount of water. much more "active" than a cylinder tumble.
Nope, sorry,
I do miss my thumper, I do. But there is no way TLs can get clothes as clean in 10 minutes as the carefully heated, enzyme and oxygen bleach driven, phosphate built detergents we have in Europe working for 90 minutes or so in FLs.
It is just plain simple physics.
I do miss my thumper, I do. But there is no way TLs can get clothes as clean in 10 minutes as the carefully heated, enzyme and oxygen bleach driven, phosphate built detergents we have in Europe working for 90 minutes or so in FLs.
It is just plain simple physics.
wash times
Hi folks,
I find in the twintub that 6-9 minutes on standard wash action is plenty in getting clothes clean,I tend not to use the intensive wash action as it causes the clothes to tangle a bit.
The wash timer does go up to 15 minutes however I couldn't imagine anything needing that long,unless one was a motor mechanic with overalls covered in grease or something along those lines.
Cheers.
Steve.
Hi folks,
I find in the twintub that 6-9 minutes on standard wash action is plenty in getting clothes clean,I tend not to use the intensive wash action as it causes the clothes to tangle a bit.
The wash timer does go up to 15 minutes however I couldn't imagine anything needing that long,unless one was a motor mechanic with overalls covered in grease or something along those lines.
Cheers.
Steve.
Sandy your Fabrimatic
That delicate agitate soak agitate soak routine, is the best there ever was for washable pinch pleated drapes. That cycle plus 10 minutes in the dryer and hang them back up with their pins on the rods damp and you are good to go, the pinch pleats will remain like new, not bent or overly fanned out. It truly was a great cycle for washable drapes back in the day, if you have ever washed pinch pleats you know exactly what I mean. That maytag of yours will turn em out lookin brand new. IIRC the maytag coin ops of the avocado and harvest gold era had the same "delicate" routine. alr2903
That delicate agitate soak agitate soak routine, is the best there ever was for washable pinch pleated drapes. That cycle plus 10 minutes in the dryer and hang them back up with their pins on the rods damp and you are good to go, the pinch pleats will remain like new, not bent or overly fanned out. It truly was a great cycle for washable drapes back in the day, if you have ever washed pinch pleats you know exactly what I mean. That maytag of yours will turn em out lookin brand new. IIRC the maytag coin ops of the avocado and harvest gold era had the same "delicate" routine. alr2903
danemodsandy
Well-known member
alr2903
Hey, thanks! By a huge coincidence, I have some pinch-pleated draperies in need of a laundering. Nice to know that the delicate cycle on my 'Tag will keep them from needing too much pressing. Pinch pleats are something that can be absolutely fearsome to put back in order if they're messed up!
I still cannot believe how fast these things wash and dry. I could kick myself for all the time I've spent in the past seventeen years waiting for the Whirlys to finish the hell UP already.
Hey, thanks! By a huge coincidence, I have some pinch-pleated draperies in need of a laundering. Nice to know that the delicate cycle on my 'Tag will keep them from needing too much pressing. Pinch pleats are something that can be absolutely fearsome to put back in order if they're messed up!
I still cannot believe how fast these things wash and dry. I could kick myself for all the time I've spent in the past seventeen years waiting for the Whirlys to finish the hell UP already.
My compact Whirlpool has a unique timer function. When "Heavy Duty" is selected, I get a 14 minute wash time. The washing machine fills and then washes for 4 minutes then, the washer drains 1/2 the water out the tub and refills it with fresh water, and goes on for another 10 minutes. This function is great for really dirty, soiled clothing, as it gets the stuff really clean. My only gripe is that there's no way to select an extra rinse with this washer. My skin is a bit sensitive to detergent, and I like to get as much out as I can, so in order to get my extra rinse in, I will turn the timer dial back to wash after the load is finished, but don't put any soap in, let it agitate for about 4-5 minutes or so, and then do a spin...sorta defeats the purpose of having an "automatic" washer, but oh well!
Not enough room on timer?
I don't understand why a mfg couldn't just stick a slower gear in the timer mechanism, to make the wash time last longer. It's not as if a full turn of the timer dial must last only one hour... it could last 1.5 hours, 2 hours, etc, depending on the gearing.
Or am I missing something?
However, the Maytag A606 has a 14 minute normal wash time. The 608 has a 10 or 12 minute normal wash time.
Here's a list of the lonest wash times on my various top loaders:
Maytag A606 - circa 1967: 14 minutes (inferred)
GE Filter-Flo - circa 1978: 18 minutes
Lady Kenmore - circa 1971: 14 minutes (possibly longer with extended wash option)
If my memory serves me correctly, my '83 Whirlpool Super had an 18 minute cycle as well. Can't remember what my 50's Maytag top loader had for longest cycle.
I don't understand why a mfg couldn't just stick a slower gear in the timer mechanism, to make the wash time last longer. It's not as if a full turn of the timer dial must last only one hour... it could last 1.5 hours, 2 hours, etc, depending on the gearing.
Or am I missing something?
However, the Maytag A606 has a 14 minute normal wash time. The 608 has a 10 or 12 minute normal wash time.
Here's a list of the lonest wash times on my various top loaders:
Maytag A606 - circa 1967: 14 minutes (inferred)
GE Filter-Flo - circa 1978: 18 minutes
Lady Kenmore - circa 1971: 14 minutes (possibly longer with extended wash option)
If my memory serves me correctly, my '83 Whirlpool Super had an 18 minute cycle as well. Can't remember what my 50's Maytag top loader had for longest cycle.
