toploadloyalist
Well-known member
What washer, brand and model, is that shown in that Borateem ad POD?
Washer in Borateem POD ad
- Thread starter toploadloyalist
- Start date
Help Support :
easyspindry
Well-known member
Philco?
Philco, mid 1960s.
angus
Well-known member
Definitely Philco from the mid-late 60's, but a lower end model since there is no fabric softener dispenser and the loading port is white instead of the speckled robin's egg blue as on the higher end models.
Question: did the Philco washers clean clothes well? I had never heard from a Consumers Report on their performance. Don’t believe I ever knew of anyone that owned one when I was growing up. I wonder if they were trouble prone. Their wash design was the most unusual, I could see how they could handle large loads, providing they got the clothes clean. I wonder if they had a spray rinse too.
Barry
Barry
Barry----
Those old flappers did clean well. The early solid-tub machines were my preference.
They did not extract water very well, like a Kelvy, or Whirly/Kenmore.
AND they were prone to sudz-lock as many other machines did back in the day of high-sudsing detergents.
It was not unusual to find the coin-operated ones in apartment buildings and coin-laundries. What was unusual was the black bakelite "stalk" (like a piece of an old broom-stick) that was used instead of the regular (detergent/lint-filter) barrel above the flapper. Looked very flimsy and stupid but did the job of keeping the clothes separated on the way down to the flapper.
Those old flappers did clean well. The early solid-tub machines were my preference.
They did not extract water very well, like a Kelvy, or Whirly/Kenmore.
AND they were prone to sudz-lock as many other machines did back in the day of high-sudsing detergents.
It was not unusual to find the coin-operated ones in apartment buildings and coin-laundries. What was unusual was the black bakelite "stalk" (like a piece of an old broom-stick) that was used instead of the regular (detergent/lint-filter) barrel above the flapper. Looked very flimsy and stupid but did the job of keeping the clothes separated on the way down to the flapper.
I don't know how often Philco updated the aesthetics and incremented the model years but it may be W-2G3 which is the 4th model of six in a 1967 brochure (available on AutomaticE.org) .... with the console area surrounding the control area masked in white to hide the branding and the Contourfill labeling on the loading port also masked.
(I hope I don't get in trouble for including a couple small clip-outs from the brochure.)
angus
Well-known member
Early Philco Bendix models, like the Automatic and up through the design change of the wash plate, cleaned well. When the wash plate was redesigned and capacity increased, the wash plate was more curved downward like a helmet as opposed to the earlier wavy plates.
According to Consumer Reports, the repair record every year, except for the 1959-1960 years was well below average (indicated by the (- -) shown in the CR charts, where ++ was best and went down from there. Too bad though, they had very interesting and progressive designs for the era. But then, the others with equally dismal repair records were Norge, Westinghouse, Hotpoint and Kelvinator. Brands like Hamilton, Blackstone and Easy usually didn't have enough responses to be reported on.
According to Consumer Reports, the repair record every year, except for the 1959-1960 years was well below average (indicated by the (- -) shown in the CR charts, where ++ was best and went down from there. Too bad though, they had very interesting and progressive designs for the era. But then, the others with equally dismal repair records were Norge, Westinghouse, Hotpoint and Kelvinator. Brands like Hamilton, Blackstone and Easy usually didn't have enough responses to be reported on.
The washing system in the first year, when it was basically the solid tub machine with a perforated liner like Bendix designed moved clothes. After they went to the perforated tub, the water currents were weakened. This was the washing action that Bendix invented for the last of their funny little top loading washers that looked like the rubber tub Economats. They called it Power Surge and advertised it with a picture showing it removing catsup from an open weave glove on a female hand that was plunged into the tub of swirling wash water. Philco kept that technology until they stopped selling washers, but it was the Bendix Energy Disc with a column on top to hold the lint filter and, on more deluxe models, the fabric softener. Admiral was supposed to get the Bendix appliances, but at the last minute that deal soured and the line was sold to Philco. All Philco did was royally screw with the Duomatic design and mess with making the clothes dryers have reverse tumbling.
Club member Gansky has (or had) one of the original Bendix Power Surge machines.
Club member Gansky has (or had) one of the original Bendix Power Surge machines.
The 1959-1960 solid-tub Philco washers are excellent machines, in 1961 they went to a perforated tub but kept the original rubber wave disk were also excellent machines and they produced these through 1964. The early design can turn over a very large easily and without much if any tangling, even with sheets or all long-sleeve shirts. In 1965 they enlarged the tub and changed the agitator disk which made for much less turn-over. I have to wonder why they modified their original excellent design so much for a larger tub, I would think a slightly larger original agitator would have worked better but who knows.
I washed a load in my '59 Philco washer today, 2 queen size sheets (one flat and one fitted), 6 pillow cases and 8 white t-shirts and the turn over was constant, I could have added even more to that load. Everything came out completely clean.
All Philco washers do a spray-rinse in the first spin. The solid tubs spin out the water and reach full speed in about 60 seconds when the 1 minute spray rinse begins. They also do a 1 minute overflow rinse in the final minute of rinse agitation.
Philco also had the best balancing system of any automatic I have ever seen.
Here is the early Philco agitator, one of the best agitator designs ever invented in my opinion...[this post was last edited: 10/26/2022-22:39]
I washed a load in my '59 Philco washer today, 2 queen size sheets (one flat and one fitted), 6 pillow cases and 8 white t-shirts and the turn over was constant, I could have added even more to that load. Everything came out completely clean.
All Philco washers do a spray-rinse in the first spin. The solid tubs spin out the water and reach full speed in about 60 seconds when the 1 minute spray rinse begins. They also do a 1 minute overflow rinse in the final minute of rinse agitation.
Philco also had the best balancing system of any automatic I have ever seen.
Here is the early Philco agitator, one of the best agitator designs ever invented in my opinion...[this post was last edited: 10/26/2022-22:39]
Thanks guys for the replies. It certainly was an unusual agitation design, and it makes me wonder how they came up with it. I had read that the Philco’s could hold a lot of laundry, capacity.
I wonder if that’s where Whirlpool came up with the Calypso design.
Also wonder if they lasted a long time, the reliability. I never heard.
Barry
I wonder if that’s where Whirlpool came up with the Calypso design.
Also wonder if they lasted a long time, the reliability. I never heard.
Barry
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
Ditto from me for the replies! I've read in Philco ads that their fins contained water.
Water in the agitator fins? That advertising blurb "Blades of Water" isn't to be taken literally. It means that the flappalator energizes the water and produces waves and currents akin to traditional oscillating agitator fins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJABarb0ns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJjdxl1fQis
Reliability--------
Interesting question.
All I know is the people who had them were loathe to get rid of them and usually kept them until the flapper was worn to a stub.
Like most machines of any kind, once the company stops manufacturing them altogether, they usually stop making the parts as well. Once the shelves are empty that's it.
I'm not thinking it would be easy to find a NOS flapper and if you did, no telling how much the rubber would have deteriorated from age alone.
Timers would be looking for hen's teeth.
I have two friends near to where I live that each have one.
One is a TOL and the other a lower-end MOL. The MOL line machine was found in near new condition about six years ago and works just fine. I think the TOL machine has issues.
I think finding an early one NIB would be a fine prize!
Interesting question.
All I know is the people who had them were loathe to get rid of them and usually kept them until the flapper was worn to a stub.
Like most machines of any kind, once the company stops manufacturing them altogether, they usually stop making the parts as well. Once the shelves are empty that's it.
I'm not thinking it would be easy to find a NOS flapper and if you did, no telling how much the rubber would have deteriorated from age alone.
Timers would be looking for hen's teeth.
I have two friends near to where I live that each have one.
One is a TOL and the other a lower-end MOL. The MOL line machine was found in near new condition about six years ago and works just fine. I think the TOL machine has issues.
I think finding an early one NIB would be a fine prize!
At Thanksgiving, 1958, we were in Milwaukee and the TV was on and a commercial for the Philco washing machine came on. They had an ad campaign going that its washing action was so powerful that even with 6 sheets in the machine, it was powerful enough to pull a 7th sheet in and they showed it on TV. I do not remember if this was tied to the Hi Frequency Washing Action or if that came later. They would contrast it with their old agitator washer which was totally choked with 6 sheets. It was exciting as we had no ads like that at home.
As to the question of the WP "nutation," when we went for training on the Calypso, We saw how similar the motion was to the Bendix/Philco machine and asked the trainer who admitted that WP had to pay for some patents to use the wash action.
As to the question of the WP "nutation," when we went for training on the Calypso, We saw how similar the motion was to the Bendix/Philco machine and asked the trainer who admitted that WP had to pay for some patents to use the wash action.
Tom,
That’s interesting about Whirlpool paying out for the patents. At the time I first saw the Calypso I had no idea how it would work. It’s too bad there was a class action lawsuit brought against Whirlpool.
I saw quite a few that looks fairly new in the return heap behind Lowe’s.
Barry
That’s interesting about Whirlpool paying out for the patents. At the time I first saw the Calypso I had no idea how it would work. It’s too bad there was a class action lawsuit brought against Whirlpool.
I saw quite a few that looks fairly new in the return heap behind Lowe’s.
Barry
US patents expire after 17 years and then anyone can use whatever technology was patented without paying anything, so they wouldn't have been Philco's patents by the late 1990s when the Calypso was designed. The Philco patent that was referenced on back of the Automagic machines (2,902,851) would have expired in 1976.
I wonder who's patents they needed to use unless the tech you spoke to Tom had incorrect information.
I wonder who's patents they needed to use unless the tech you spoke to Tom had incorrect information.
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
"Blades of Water" misconception
I sit corrected. I shouldn't have taken that literally!
I sit corrected. I shouldn't have taken that literally!
Patents can be renewed.
Re: reply #13: Why do you think a class action lawsuit was brought against Whirlpool? Whirlpool, like other responsible corporations, researched patents when coming up with the design for the Calypso and they found the patents filed by AVCO, which owned Bendix at the time, for the action of the energy disc in the Bendix Power Surge. I have no idea what the financial arrangements were and probably should not have mentioned "payments" in connection with the patents, but they were aware of the patents and the patents are not just for the physical components. There is also the intellectual property holding or the idea behind the physical creation. AVCO essentially killed the idea of any other corporation manufacturing washer dryer combinations with a suspended mechanism like the Duomatic had. In addition to preventing that, just the manufacturing of a washer-dryer combination by any corporation or using AVCO's idea of making a machine that both washed and dried caused those corporations to have to pay royalty payments to AVCO for every combination sold. At any rate, Whirlpool was aware of the nutating or wobbling action of the mechanism that provided wash action. I do not know how rugged the Bendix Power Surge was, but John Combo52 told me that the Calypso machines were not dependable with vulnerabilities like the gasket along the edge of the wash plate wearing out and service techs not replacing the gasket over the universal joint which allowed water to get in.
Re: reply #13: Why do you think a class action lawsuit was brought against Whirlpool? Whirlpool, like other responsible corporations, researched patents when coming up with the design for the Calypso and they found the patents filed by AVCO, which owned Bendix at the time, for the action of the energy disc in the Bendix Power Surge. I have no idea what the financial arrangements were and probably should not have mentioned "payments" in connection with the patents, but they were aware of the patents and the patents are not just for the physical components. There is also the intellectual property holding or the idea behind the physical creation. AVCO essentially killed the idea of any other corporation manufacturing washer dryer combinations with a suspended mechanism like the Duomatic had. In addition to preventing that, just the manufacturing of a washer-dryer combination by any corporation or using AVCO's idea of making a machine that both washed and dried caused those corporations to have to pay royalty payments to AVCO for every combination sold. At any rate, Whirlpool was aware of the nutating or wobbling action of the mechanism that provided wash action. I do not know how rugged the Bendix Power Surge was, but John Combo52 told me that the Calypso machines were not dependable with vulnerabilities like the gasket along the edge of the wash plate wearing out and service techs not replacing the gasket over the universal joint which allowed water to get in.
