Water heaters

[browncow]

I'm looking for recommendations for a replacement water heater -- natural gas, storage, tall.

Among the big boxes, Home Depot=GE, Lowes=Whirlpool(!), Sears=Kenmore.

As with everything else, I'm sure they're only a handful of manufacturers that make most everything, and sell them under different brands. The size/warranty/price all seem to fall into clear delineations.

So the real question is, who makes what, and which is the one to avoid or favor?

 

[whirlcool]

I have always liked Rheem and Bryant water heaters. You usually get these through plumbing companies.
Sears is ok, but in one house we felt the water temp fluctuated with use.
As long as you flush about a gallon a month out of the bottom of the tank, most heaters should last you about a dozen years.

 

[volvoguy87]

Can of worms.

I'm probably opening up a can of worms but, TANKLESS!
If you decide to go tankless, do your research first. Tankless heaters are small, highly energy efficient, and can qualify for a $300.00 tax incentive of sme kind. As long as you do not exceed the rated capacity, in galons per minute of hot water production, you will NEVER run out of hot water, so take a shower as long as you like, even when you have company. Tankless water heaters have no tank full of water, so there is no chance of the heater having a burst tank, or a sediment and deposit filled tank. Unfortunately, tankless water heaters are expensive to buy (but very VERY cheap to operate). Not all plumbers are familiar with tankless water heaters, though they are getting more and more common, so ask your installer to be sure they know what they're doing. Tankless water heaters are available as electric or gas, so get what you need.
How they work:
A tankless water heater has an inlet and an outlet. There is a flow sensor in the pipe which detects when water flows through the unit. When it detects water flowing, it switches on and makes hot water. When the flow stops, it turns off. When you don't need hot water, it isn't running, keeping 40 galons of water hot all the time. It only switches on when you need it.
There are 2 things to remember!
#1 get a tankless heater that senses the temperature of the output and keeps it constant up to its rated capacity. This is to avoid getting a water heater that will scald at low-flow and freeze at high-flow.
#2 make sure you get a heater that can produce the galons of hot water per minute you need. Tankless heaters are rated in galons per minute of hot water they can make. Most manufacturers have calculation charts which you can use to determine the flow each type of application uses. A shower is usually the most, and a sink if often the least. Find out what your needed capacity is (Do you want to be able to run a shower, the dishwasher, the washing machine, and a sink at the same time?
The company where I work uses tankless water heaters exclusively and we have had no bad experiences.

Good luck,
Dave

 

[tomturbomatic]

Google Whirlpool water heaters and read about the problems people are reporting. I'm glad that I did. Best of luck.
Tom

 

[58limited]

I have a 50 gallon Kenmore electric that has given me no trouble and the heat is consistant. I have had it for 7 years. It is very well insulated: I went out of town for the weekend once - I turned off the breaker and after 48 hours, the water was still very hot. I currently have a timer on it - it only heats one hour a day, I hit the manual override on days when I'm doing a lot of laundry. This water heater supplies the kitchen and laundry room only.

The two bathrooms are supplied by the 68 year old original 30 gal.gas RUUD with Monel tank.

 

[lightedcontrols]

Well Tom, now that you mention it....

I installed a Whirlpool water heater (from Lowe's) with the lovely little energy saving box on top. The heater is ALMOST a year old. We have replaced the board/relays four times already. You call the 800 number and they send you the parts and you install them yourself. Why in the world would a water heater need a board???? Needless to say, the new house will get three new GE water heaters without all that energy saving crap. Mark

 

[browncow]

Thanks for the tips.

I've discovered that GE=Ruud/Rheem and Kenmore=AO Smith, and both seem to have good reputations. And Whirlpool is problematic to be sure.

I know of the tankless advantages, but their cost and hassle factors are too high for a straight replacement. If this was a renovation, I'd more strongly consider the switch.

 

[exploder3211]

I'd go with the GE or Kenmo, but IMHO the GE is the best bet.. Just bought a 1975 4 unit bulding with 2 bedrooms and 2 baths each and each one has a Rheem water heater thats the original and is still plugging away

 

[toggleswitch]

I had the opprtunity of fine-tuning a new Kenmore brand electric hot water storage-type heater.

It has a "jumper" to increase the wattage from 3,800 watts to 5,200 watts. (in other words a two-stage element).

Since the line supplying it is a 30a circuit with 10 gauge (AWG)wire rather than the sometimes seen 12 gauge 20a circuit & wire, I was able to enable the higher wattage option safely.

In terms of tankless hot water heater: Lovely idea but it's got ELECTRONICS ("Computerizaton") that we all seem to treat with disdain.

 

[gadgetgary]

Yes

My ex appreciated the help with his new water heater.

 

[toggleswitch]

Monet, not gold but the next best thing.

~The two bathrooms are supplied by the 68 year old original 30 gal.gas RUUD with Monel tank.

MONEL?

 

[selectomatic]

Yaay Monel!

I haven't seen a reference to Monel metal since I was leafing through some '30s catalogs that my grandma gave me.

-kevin

 

[58limited]

Monel

Monel is an alloy that is very durable and doesn't corrode. These old water heaters are not discarded for leaking, they are tossed because the burners and controls go bad and no plumbers will try to replaace the obsolete parts due to liability issues (thats what they told me - I think they just want to sell new water heaters). My local mom and pop hardware store will supply me with any new "universal" parts I need to fix it.

 

[toggleswitch]

 

[58limited]

There is a 1905 mansion near me that still has its original operating copper water heater - it struck me as small for such a big house: 20 gallon. Its in the attic.

 

[toggleswitch]

Anyone have a link, or a chart or a sales brochure?

For about 5 minutes Sears offered a "high-tech" storage-type hot water heater that had a tank of some material (which I can't recall) that would last indefinitely. It wasn't SS, but maybe fiberglass or lexan plastic or some such thing.

My immediate thought was, "ah this won't self-destruct as other tanks do. Mannies will stop making it because once widespread, it will kill the need for continiuously replacing hot water heaters."

 

[sudsmaster]

In general, Monel is a nickel-copper alloy containing a very low amount of iron, and other trace elements. Usually the nickel content is over 60%, so you can imagine, it's an expensive metal. Some nickel alloys, like Inconel, are fiendishly expensive. We're talking maybe $100/lb, or more. But they are indispensible for high temp/high corrosion environments.

As for the water heater... what I'd look for is a brass drain valve (the plastic ones can break off). A 12 year warranty, extra thick insulation, dual anode rods (most important to help the tank resist corrosion). I don't know about draining a gallon a month. I usually empty the whole tank about every two years or so. I have an 25 year old Ward's 50 gallon water heater that's going strong. I replaced the anode rod, the drain valve, and the pressure release valve. All these were not very difficult (the anode rod required one of my biggest sockets). I am probably going to replace the "dip tube" next, which is the tube that delivers cold water to the bottom of the tank. Older ones, made of plastic, tended to embrittle and crumble with age. A sign is little white bits of plastic in one's faucet screens. I don't see those here, but I figure it's probably due for replacement anyway. And in the process I'll learn if the dip tube is a combination dip tube/second anode rod as well. The water here is medium soft, slightly alkaline. If you live in an area with very soft and/or acid water, then the anode rods may go quickly and need replacement more frequently.

 

[toggleswitch]

I've noticed really small hot water heater in hot climates.

I imagine the inocoming water temp is WAY above that in my area, and that peeps there shower cooler.

Also hot water heaters in hot places like AZ, TX, FL don't lose much heat. I would imagine the converse; that they GAIN heat when in attics, garages.

In Puerto Rico I have seen electric hot water heaters on the roof, unprotected from the (weather)elements. Yes they even use pitiful 1500w 120v elements there.

 

[brisnat81]

Interesting point Steve

I've been sitting here thinking that 50gal seems quite small.

The smallest Electric storage tank you find over here is about 65Gal or 250L. If you've got a family of 4+ or a high hot water requirement, the usual size is between 80Gal to 105Gal or 300L - 400L.

I've been amazed at how small the tanks seems to be in the US. We live in a sub tropical climate as well, with winter maximums of 20degC. These heaters usually have element rating of 4800watts.

I guess the kicker is that electric hot water here is usually provided with offpeak power that is only available between 10pm and 8am. Thus the need for larger storage tanks.

With the drought and thus the push that there is currently to get individual water consumption down to 35gal or 140L per person per day, this has been the first winter in ages that we've yet to run out of hot water We're almost on target, with a current consumption of 147L/person/day in our house.

My apologies if this has wandered too far off topic.