Where can I get Tide?

[lavamat78800]

Hey guys,

I´m very bored of german detergents and want to test something new.
Really would like to test Tide, but don´´t know where to get some.

does anybody knwo where I can get Tide for my HE washer?

Maybe there somewhere is a online-shop or something like that???

 

[panthera]

Nino

If you can wait till December (and send me a reminder with your address) I can send you a little bottle when I get to the US.
But, honestly - you probably won't like it. American HE detergents are still about at the stage Persil was in the 1920's. They work, after a fashion.
Sort of.
Americans are used to pre-treating their clothes and adding all sorts of boosters, bleaches,etc. HE detergents, though very expensive, are really not even close to our AS from Schlecker or Weiße Riese.
But hey - send me a note and I will see if I can't pack up some of the fabric softener along with the Tide HE and you can play with it.

 

[tnmike]

Hey man,
If we could work out something like via Pay Pal I might be able to send some to you. I am expecting shipping would be crazy high. If you are interested let me know. Mike.

Shoot might trade a Persil and Tide? Persil is like $50 for us to buy here.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, now, I have tried Persil, and while it's very good, I don't know if it is 80 years better than Tide HE or other American HE detergents. I admit to being at somewhat of a disadvantage, as I've never done laundry in Germany in the 1920's.

Persil does rinse out better, leaving clothes softer, because as I understand it, it no longer contains sodium carbonate, whereas American detergents are loaded up with the stuff. However, if one wants soft results with an American HE detergent, any of the liquids, which use sodium citrate instead of sodium carbonate, tend to leave much softer results.

Besides softness, the other big difference I notice between Persil and American HE detergents is that the American detergents tend to suds more at high temps - such as over 150F. Most American washers don't go much higher than that, and many never get above 120F. Plus, Americans are used to top loaders and seeing lots of suds, so even our HE detergents tend to suds more than they should.

On the plus side, if you're bored with efficient and no-nonsense Teutonic laundering, American detergents feature a dazzling and ever-changing variety of scents and packaging. I don't know where they come up with the names for the various scents, but some of them are quite entertaining. It's debatable if the various trendy detergent and softener scents have any value in the cleaning process, and some might argue that they are there to cover up incomplete cleaning. I suspect some housewives load up their hubby's clothes with these scents in order to cover up objectionable body odor. Most big brands also offer a "dye and fragrance free" version for those who are upset by perfumes. But even the dye-free ones usually still have a type of dye - optical brightener - which is a dye that absorbs UV light and fluoresces white light back at you.

 

[launderess]

Actually some versions of German Persil still use soda ash, IIRC; mainly the powders.Just checked my box of Megaperls Sensitive, and found no mention of soda ash/washing soda, just non-ionic surfactants and so forth.

Will agree that Persil is nothing more than the top dog detergent in it's markets, just as Tide is for the US market. Persil IMHO, does have a advantage in European washing machines such as Miele, which used long wash cycles, and or very high water temperatures. US detergents are designed for the rather short cycles found on most domestic machines.

Shipping Detergents Overseas:

Beware that even if sent as a "gift", EU or US customs can slap duty on items coming into the country. So far have had good luck with items sent as gifts, but these days who knows.

 

[petek]

I'm only guessing that there would be at least one store in a larger German city like Berlin or close to that US base that sells US produts for homesick Americans. Just a thought.

 

[panthera]

I meant in the development curve

Sigh. Sometimes I do put my foot in it, don't I?
After all, Persil in the 1920's was not being used in FLs.

What I wanted to say was that, just as the US manufacturers are tripping over design details which the European manufacturers confronted decades ago (water in the door boots, heating elements coming loose, bearing seals, etc.) so, too, are the US detergent folks at the difficult end of the learning curve.

They can't just adopt the (and here I won't mince words) much more logical wash program we have in Europe. First, US machines do not have the power available to them in order to heat the water slowly and thus 'activate' different cleaning elements. Some of those elements are mutually antagonistic so it isn't even possible to make up for this by just using more.

Then there is the time situation. People in the US expect their clothes to be done in 30 minutes, tops. They are learning to accept that it takes longer in a FL, but only because the drying time is so much shorter. Here in Europe we take the attitude, well, that is what the "automatic" means...so it takes the time it takes to get things clean - using as little energy, chemicals and water as is consistent with success.

So the US detergent makers can't just bring over our formulations, but they are confronted with many of our problems. Worse, they have to cope with the benighted regulations regarding water and phosphates.

Given the situation, Tide HE works quite well. When US friends ask me what is the best detergent for their FLs, I frequently recommend it.

By the way, some of the scents you will find in detergents and fabric softeners over here right now are so hideous, they put anything in the US to shame. And yes, the real solution to "ring around the collar" is the same over here as there: Some men need to bathe more often... and let's not forget other rings on a continent where circumcision is basically unknown.

 

[launderess]

One must understand, by and large only one type of washing machine dominates most of the UK and Europe, while the United States still for the most part has top loading washing machines. Front loaders are making inroads, but sales are a small percentage of the total market. The US government and others have tried to force consumers to change, with restrictions and such on energy use and water, but the US consumer is a tough minded lot, and many simply prefer top loading washing machines.

Point of all this palaver is that US detergent makers have to pull an about face and switch from making high dilution laundry products, to those truly suitable for front loaders. This would include not merely rejigging a formula and adding foam control. One hears all the time "I don't see "HE" detergents in Europe", well you wouldn't would you? All detergents sold for the most part on that side of the pond are for the dominant type of washing machine, front loaders.

L.

 

[panthera]

Laundress,

You are much more knowledgeable than I am. What is the big problem with soda ash? It cleans well, but it seems like everyone really thinks it is a bad idea.
Thanks!
Oh, and yes - I forgot the being forced part of it. My mum had no interest in FLs until the first time she used a modern one here in Europe (those Westinghouse's from the 70's. Like hell people don't have long memories...)
After that she was sold. But she sold herself. This heavy footed...well, I am not going to go there.

 

[launderess]

Soda Ash

Has along history of being associated with laundry, even in old Europe, where ashes from wood fires would be saved and sold to laundry maids/housewives for doing laundry.

Problem with washing soda is while it is a powerful cleaner, especially of muck,oils and grease, it is also very alkaline and somewhat harsh on fibers. Normally base substances do not bother cellouse or bark textiles such as linen or cotton, but combine washing soda with high water temperatures, and harsh mechanical action, and you've got a mixture for finishing off textiles, rather than just cleaning them.

However until modern chemical surfactants came long, soda ash, washing soda, soda crystals were state of the art chemistry for cleaning all sorts of things. From dishes to laundry, to housecleaning soda ash mixed with soap and water pretty much all there was, and while it did the job, it could be murder on finished surfaces, to day nothing of wash day red hands!

Base substances such as washing soda, lye and others work well for cleaning laundry because the pH causes textile fibres to swell, thus releasing soils. Persons who have their hair straightened with lye based "relaxers" rely on the same principle. However instead of releasing soils, the hair is rearranged into a smooth pattern, then when rinsed and neutralised, hair should remain in it's new form.

The other problem with using soda is that when soap was the dominant "detergent" it formed scum in hard water that was softened with soda, mainly because soda does not sequester hard water minerals, but binds them, turning the water cloudy. Bound minerals combined with soda and soap formed a scum that was hard to shift off textiles. Hence the various old world remedies such as adding lemon juice, vinegar or any mild acid to the final rinse water to stip out any remaining soap scum/muck. Souring the final rinse also helped return the laundry to a more skin comfortable pH level, instead of the harsh scratchy feeling laundry one gets when items are washed in mainly washing soda.

Phosphates of course meant one could use less or eliminate washing soda all together. However as STPP is being phased out washing soda remains the main ingredient in most powdered laundry detergents to some extent. Really TOL powders or "perls" such as Peril's "mega-perls" do not contain washing soda, but a complex cocktail of surfactants that seem to clean very well, while leaving laundry softer (owning to the absence of washing soda?).

OTHO liquid laundry detergents are being marketed to both commercial and home laundries as better for textiles as they do not contain soda,but use mainly sodium citrates. Liquid laundry detergents rely on enzymes and surfactants to remove soils, rather than raising the pH level. Supposedly this is the reason many consider liquid detergents more gentle than the average powdered laundry detergent.

If they haven't changed the formula, try laundering towels in a high soda detergent like some forms of Arm&Hammer powder, or adding lots of washing soda to a wash cycle. You'll usually be rewarded with hard, scratchy and stiff laundry.

 

[sudsmaster]

If I might butt in...

The problem with soda ash is that it forms a precipitate with hard water minerals and soil minerals. This precipitate, generally calcium or magnesium carbonate, forms a cement like encrustation not only on washer parts but also can re-deposit on fabric fibers. All sorts of additives to thwart this redeposition are used, but the stuff still seems to encrust the fabric fibers to some extent resulting in a harsher final feel to the laundry. Other than that, soda ash is great stuff ;-)...

 

[launderess]

In my long winded way, just what I was saying.

Personally like the results from using iether Persil or the European commercial detergent for colours, both of which are low to no (Persil Mega Persl), soda ash. Items are washed softer, especially sheets and rinse cleaner without the need for souring.

L.

 

[panthera]

You two are

wonderful. Thank you.

 

[gyrafoam]

When I got my Frigimore brand-new back in 1997, it came with sample boxes of Tide HE. It was the first of the "HE" type detergents I ever used, as, in 1997 the "HE's" were new on the market here in the U.S. From the start I found it made just as much sudz as the regular Tide. So then I tried Wisk HE and found the same issue. So I just stopped paying the extra money and stopped buying the "HE's". They may have changed their formulae's over the last ten years, but I doubt it. I think they are a rip-off.

If I want low-sudz it will be FAB, and if I want (almost) NO-sudz it will be Costco's Kirkland "Institutional" (in the plastic bucket). (The Costco stuff rinses out completely with no fragrance left at all!) IMO they are the best America has to offer for use in FL machines.

 

[danemodsandy]

Washing Soda:

While I use washing soda very sparingly, it does have its place. My proudest moment with the stuff was when I bought my Volvo 245 wagon, which came with a lovely 8" diametre tar stain on the passenger-side front carpeting, very nasty and crusty. After softening things up with lighter fluid, and scrubbing the stain with hot water and washing soda, I got busy with the steam cleaner. Voila! Complete removal of the tar, and no discernible damage to the carpet, which is probably nylon.

 

[oxydolfan1]

"If I want low-sudz it will be FAB"

Gyrafoam, if you like the powdered version of FAB and you have a "Family Dollar" discount store in your neighborhood, you might want to check them out.

I only noticed it because Fab powder is usually unavailable in this region, and it was priced very reasonably (I'm sorry but I cannot recall the exact price!)

They had one fragrance selection....the purplish box.

 

[launderess]

Tide HE

Methinks Tide HE is nothing more than regular Tide with some foaming agents. Used the stuff once with my first front loader, and dumb me used the recommended dosage. Well am here to tell you had foam all over the place. Finally had to remove the wash to the bath tub and rinse. Some olive oil into the washer (on advice of my appliance repairman), killed the suds enough for the machine to clean itself out. That was the last time ever messed with Tide HE.

Really don't know what bugs US detergent makers about making low foaming detergents. Just get rid of high foaming surfactants, in favour of lower foaming, and add some suds control. They did it back in the day with Dash and other detergents with "controlled suds". With water usage for washing machines getting down to the wet-wipe level, cleaner rinsing and lower foaming detergents simply are going to have to happen.

 

[mrwash]

Persil

Well, me as a german, I smiled while reading all the posting and I was amazed that you only talk so much about Persil.

It is right that Persil may be Germanys detergent No. 1. and that Persil is a great, great brand BUT after the leading consumer mags in Germany (they tested Persil for whites and for colored clothes)Persil is not the first choice.

In the test where they tested detergents for colored clothes, Persil only won the bronze medal.

And concerning whites, Persil had to share the first place with some other brands - they were all store brands...bitter for Persil.

Well, a few months ago, Persil changed the outfit completely because of the 100th anniversary. And a new test concerning the cleaning power of detergents for whites showed that Persil only delivers moderate results - again.

I don't want to destroy anyones illusions but Persil is not so good as it always pretends.

Well, after the tests, the best detergent at the moment is Ariel (P&G) both for whites ("Ariel light-active") and for colored clothes ("Ariel Color&Style").

And did you know? - Liquid detergents are becoming more and more famous in Germany but is proven that they clean worse than powders and are more ecologically harmful then powders. But people like the liquid detergents.

And another trend is (like in the USA) that more and more detergents (liquid or powders - doesn't matter)come along with special scents like "Persil with a touch of Vernel" ("Vernel" is a softener also from Henkel like Persil).

In my opinion...that trend is horrible. Leave the scents to the fabric softeners and the cleaning to the detergents. There is no need for a detergent which smells fantastic but cleans bad. We have so many fabric softeners here (and since a year every softener has some kind of special edition with extravagant scents) so it would be better that the enterprises focus on developing a good working detergent instead of creating detergents with special scents. But thats only my opinion.

For the Persil-lovers: I added a link to the new designed persil (for those who haven't seen it yet)

Don't mind the red bow. They added it to the packaging because they sell every year for one or two months 15 % more detergent to say "Thank you" to the consumers. The bow will disappear after the end of the special offer.

http://www.persil.de/01_02_01.php

 

[2drumsallergy]

Ariel

Hi MrWash,
Ariel is my favourite UK detergent, in my experience it outperforms all other UK detergents except for Amway SA8 Premium with Bioquest but they are very close on performance. Ariel definitely produces the whitest whites possible.

David