Where can I get Tide?

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lavamat78800

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May 30, 2007
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Hey guys,

I´m very bored of german detergents and want to test something new.
Really would like to test Tide, but don´´t know where to get some.

does anybody knwo where I can get Tide for my HE washer?

Maybe there somewhere is a online-shop or something like that???
 
Nino

If you can wait till December (and send me a reminder with your address) I can send you a little bottle when I get to the US.
But, honestly - you probably won't like it. American HE detergents are still about at the stage Persil was in the 1920's. They work, after a fashion.
Sort of.
Americans are used to pre-treating their clothes and adding all sorts of boosters, bleaches,etc. HE detergents, though very expensive, are really not even close to our AS from Schlecker or Weiße Riese.
But hey - send me a note and I will see if I can't pack up some of the fabric softener along with the Tide HE and you can play with it.
 
Hey man,
If we could work out something like via Pay Pal I might be able to send some to you. I am expecting shipping would be crazy high. If you are interested let me know. Mike.

Shoot might trade a Persil and Tide? Persil is like $50 for us to buy here.
 
Well, now, I have tried Persil, and while it's very good, I don't know if it is 80 years better than Tide HE or other American HE detergents. I admit to being at somewhat of a disadvantage, as I've never done laundry in Germany in the 1920's.

Persil does rinse out better, leaving clothes softer, because as I understand it, it no longer contains sodium carbonate, whereas American detergents are loaded up with the stuff. However, if one wants soft results with an American HE detergent, any of the liquids, which use sodium citrate instead of sodium carbonate, tend to leave much softer results.

Besides softness, the other big difference I notice between Persil and American HE detergents is that the American detergents tend to suds more at high temps - such as over 150F. Most American washers don't go much higher than that, and many never get above 120F. Plus, Americans are used to top loaders and seeing lots of suds, so even our HE detergents tend to suds more than they should.

On the plus side, if you're bored with efficient and no-nonsense Teutonic laundering, American detergents feature a dazzling and ever-changing variety of scents and packaging. I don't know where they come up with the names for the various scents, but some of them are quite entertaining. It's debatable if the various trendy detergent and softener scents have any value in the cleaning process, and some might argue that they are there to cover up incomplete cleaning. I suspect some housewives load up their hubby's clothes with these scents in order to cover up objectionable body odor. Most big brands also offer a "dye and fragrance free" version for those who are upset by perfumes. But even the dye-free ones usually still have a type of dye - optical brightener - which is a dye that absorbs UV light and fluoresces white light back at you.
 
Actually some versions of German Persil still use soda ash, IIRC; mainly the powders.Just checked my box of Megaperls Sensitive, and found no mention of soda ash/washing soda, just non-ionic surfactants and so forth.

Will agree that Persil is nothing more than the top dog detergent in it's markets, just as Tide is for the US market. Persil IMHO, does have a advantage in European washing machines such as Miele, which used long wash cycles, and or very high water temperatures. US detergents are designed for the rather short cycles found on most domestic machines.

Shipping Detergents Overseas:

Beware that even if sent as a "gift", EU or US customs can slap duty on items coming into the country. So far have had good luck with items sent as gifts, but these days who knows.
 
I'm only guessing that there would be at least one store in a larger German city like Berlin or close to that US base that sells US produts for homesick Americans. Just a thought.
 
I meant in the development curve

Sigh. Sometimes I do put my foot in it, don't I?
After all, Persil in the 1920's was not being used in FLs.

What I wanted to say was that, just as the US manufacturers are tripping over design details which the European manufacturers confronted decades ago (water in the door boots, heating elements coming loose, bearing seals, etc.) so, too, are the US detergent folks at the difficult end of the learning curve.

They can't just adopt the (and here I won't mince words) much more logical wash program we have in Europe. First, US machines do not have the power available to them in order to heat the water slowly and thus 'activate' different cleaning elements. Some of those elements are mutually antagonistic so it isn't even possible to make up for this by just using more.

Then there is the time situation. People in the US expect their clothes to be done in 30 minutes, tops. They are learning to accept that it takes longer in a FL, but only because the drying time is so much shorter. Here in Europe we take the attitude, well, that is what the "automatic" means...so it takes the time it takes to get things clean - using as little energy, chemicals and water as is consistent with success.

So the US detergent makers can't just bring over our formulations, but they are confronted with many of our problems. Worse, they have to cope with the benighted regulations regarding water and phosphates.

Given the situation, Tide HE works quite well. When US friends ask me what is the best detergent for their FLs, I frequently recommend it.

By the way, some of the scents you will find in detergents and fabric softeners over here right now are so hideous, they put anything in the US to shame. And yes, the real solution to "ring around the collar" is the same over here as there: Some men need to bathe more often... and let's not forget other rings on a continent where circumcision is basically unknown.
 
One must understand, by and large only one type of washing machine dominates most of the UK and Europe, while the United States still for the most part has top loading washing machines. Front loaders are making inroads, but sales are a small percentage of the total market. The US government and others have tried to force consumers to change, with restrictions and such on energy use and water, but the US consumer is a tough minded lot, and many simply prefer top loading washing machines.

Point of all this palaver is that US detergent makers have to pull an about face and switch from making high dilution laundry products, to those truly suitable for front loaders. This would include not merely rejigging a formula and adding foam control. One hears all the time "I don't see "HE" detergents in Europe", well you wouldn't would you? All detergents sold for the most part on that side of the pond are for the dominant type of washing machine, front loaders.

L.
 
Laundress,

You are much more knowledgeable than I am. What is the big problem with soda ash? It cleans well, but it seems like everyone really thinks it is a bad idea.
Thanks!
Oh, and yes - I forgot the being forced part of it. My mum had no interest in FLs until the first time she used a modern one here in Europe (those Westinghouse's from the 70's. Like hell people don't have long memories...)
After that she was sold. But she sold herself. This heavy footed...well, I am not going to go there.
 
Soda Ash

Has along history of being associated with laundry, even in old Europe, where ashes from wood fires would be saved and sold to laundry maids/housewives for doing laundry.

Problem with washing soda is while it is a powerful cleaner, especially of muck,oils and grease, it is also very alkaline and somewhat harsh on fibers. Normally base substances do not bother cellouse or bark textiles such as linen or cotton, but combine washing soda with high water temperatures, and harsh mechanical action, and you've got a mixture for finishing off textiles, rather than just cleaning them.

However until modern chemical surfactants came long, soda ash, washing soda, soda crystals were state of the art chemistry for cleaning all sorts of things. From dishes to laundry, to housecleaning soda ash mixed with soap and water pretty much all there was, and while it did the job, it could be murder on finished surfaces, to day nothing of wash day red hands!

Base substances such as washing soda, lye and others work well for cleaning laundry because the pH causes textile fibres to swell, thus releasing soils. Persons who have their hair straightened with lye based "relaxers" rely on the same principle. However instead of releasing soils, the hair is rearranged into a smooth pattern, then when rinsed and neutralised, hair should remain in it's new form.

The other problem with using soda is that when soap was the dominant "detergent" it formed scum in hard water that was softened with soda, mainly because soda does not sequester hard water minerals, but binds them, turning the water cloudy. Bound minerals combined with soda and soap formed a scum that was hard to shift off textiles. Hence the various old world remedies such as adding lemon juice, vinegar or any mild acid to the final rinse water to stip out any remaining soap scum/muck. Souring the final rinse also helped return the laundry to a more skin comfortable pH level, instead of the harsh scratchy feeling laundry one gets when items are washed in mainly washing soda.

Phosphates of course meant one could use less or eliminate washing soda all together. However as STPP is being phased out washing soda remains the main ingredient in most powdered laundry detergents to some extent. Really TOL powders or "perls" such as Peril's "mega-perls" do not contain washing soda, but a complex cocktail of surfactants that seem to clean very well, while leaving laundry softer (owning to the absence of washing soda?).

OTHO liquid laundry detergents are being marketed to both commercial and home laundries as better for textiles as they do not contain soda,but use mainly sodium citrates. Liquid laundry detergents rely on enzymes and surfactants to remove soils, rather than raising the pH level. Supposedly this is the reason many consider liquid detergents more gentle than the average powdered laundry detergent.

If they haven't changed the formula, try laundering towels in a high soda detergent like some forms of Arm&Hammer powder, or adding lots of washing soda to a wash cycle. You'll usually be rewarded with hard, scratchy and stiff laundry.
 
If I might butt in...

The problem with soda ash is that it forms a precipitate with hard water minerals and soil minerals. This precipitate, generally calcium or magnesium carbonate, forms a cement like encrustation not only on washer parts but also can re-deposit on fabric fibers. All sorts of additives to thwart this redeposition are used, but the stuff still seems to encrust the fabric fibers to some extent resulting in a harsher final feel to the laundry. Other than that, soda ash is great stuff ;-)...
 
In my long winded way, just what I was saying.

Personally like the results from using iether Persil or the European commercial detergent for colours, both of which are low to no (Persil Mega Persl), soda ash. Items are washed softer, especially sheets and rinse cleaner without the need for souring.

L.
 
When I got my Frigimore brand-new back in 1997, it came with sample boxes of Tide HE. It was the first of the "HE" type detergents I ever used, as, in 1997 the "HE's" were new on the market here in the U.S. From the start I found it made just as much sudz as the regular Tide. So then I tried Wisk HE and found the same issue. So I just stopped paying the extra money and stopped buying the "HE's". They may have changed their formulae's over the last ten years, but I doubt it. I think they are a rip-off.

If I want low-sudz it will be FAB, and if I want (almost) NO-sudz it will be Costco's Kirkland "Institutional" (in the plastic bucket). (The Costco stuff rinses out completely with no fragrance left at all!) IMO they are the best America has to offer for use in FL machines.
 
Washing Soda:

While I use washing soda very sparingly, it does have its place. My proudest moment with the stuff was when I bought my Volvo 245 wagon, which came with a lovely 8" diametre tar stain on the passenger-side front carpeting, very nasty and crusty. After softening things up with lighter fluid, and scrubbing the stain with hot water and washing soda, I got busy with the steam cleaner. Voila! Complete removal of the tar, and no discernible damage to the carpet, which is probably nylon.
 
"If I want low-sudz it will be FAB"

Gyrafoam, if you like the powdered version of FAB and you have a "Family Dollar" discount store in your neighborhood, you might want to check them out.

I only noticed it because Fab powder is usually unavailable in this region, and it was priced very reasonably (I'm sorry but I cannot recall the exact price!)

They had one fragrance selection....the purplish box.
 
Tide HE

Methinks Tide HE is nothing more than regular Tide with some foaming agents. Used the stuff once with my first front loader, and dumb me used the recommended dosage. Well am here to tell you had foam all over the place. Finally had to remove the wash to the bath tub and rinse. Some olive oil into the washer (on advice of my appliance repairman), killed the suds enough for the machine to clean itself out. That was the last time ever messed with Tide HE.

Really don't know what bugs US detergent makers about making low foaming detergents. Just get rid of high foaming surfactants, in favour of lower foaming, and add some suds control. They did it back in the day with Dash and other detergents with "controlled suds". With water usage for washing machines getting down to the wet-wipe level, cleaner rinsing and lower foaming detergents simply are going to have to happen.
 
Persil

Well, me as a german, I smiled while reading all the posting and I was amazed that you only talk so much about Persil.

It is right that Persil may be Germanys detergent No. 1. and that Persil is a great, great brand BUT after the leading consumer mags in Germany (they tested Persil for whites and for colored clothes)Persil is not the first choice.

In the test where they tested detergents for colored clothes, Persil only won the bronze medal.

And concerning whites, Persil had to share the first place with some other brands - they were all store brands...bitter for Persil.

Well, a few months ago, Persil changed the outfit completely because of the 100th anniversary. And a new test concerning the cleaning power of detergents for whites showed that Persil only delivers moderate results - again.

I don't want to destroy anyones illusions but Persil is not so good as it always pretends.

Well, after the tests, the best detergent at the moment is Ariel (P&G) both for whites ("Ariel light-active") and for colored clothes ("Ariel Color&Style").

And did you know? - Liquid detergents are becoming more and more famous in Germany but is proven that they clean worse than powders and are more ecologically harmful then powders. But people like the liquid detergents.

And another trend is (like in the USA) that more and more detergents (liquid or powders - doesn't matter)come along with special scents like "Persil with a touch of Vernel" ("Vernel" is a softener also from Henkel like Persil).

In my opinion...that trend is horrible. Leave the scents to the fabric softeners and the cleaning to the detergents. There is no need for a detergent which smells fantastic but cleans bad. We have so many fabric softeners here (and since a year every softener has some kind of special edition with extravagant scents) so it would be better that the enterprises focus on developing a good working detergent instead of creating detergents with special scents. But thats only my opinion.

For the Persil-lovers: I added a link to the new designed persil (for those who haven't seen it yet)

Don't mind the red bow. They added it to the packaging because they sell every year for one or two months 15 % more detergent to say "Thank you" to the consumers. The bow will disappear after the end of the special offer. :-)

http://www.persil.de/01_02_01.php
 
Ariel

Hi MrWash,
Ariel is my favourite UK detergent, in my experience it outperforms all other UK detergents except for Amway SA8 Premium with Bioquest but they are very close on performance. Ariel definitely produces the whitest whites possible.

David
 
"I don't want to destroy anyones illusions but Persil is not so good as it always pretends."

Here, it's the only German detergent now widely available.

When I am visiting Germany, I liked the Ariel Compact, and Spee products I tried, but one I really loved, believe it or not, was the very reasonably priced Domol powder from the Rossmann drugstore!

It so happens my aunt is not well, so I may unfortunately need to be over there soon, and I definitely want to buy another box of it, I was so impressed! Persil works well in my American top-loader, so why shouldn't Domol....and a bargain!

What I really didn't like was the Sunil powder for whites and Burti powder for colors....to me, our Tide would definitely outperform them.

My friends and relatives there have given in to my laundry obsession and now have all the laundry products neatly laid out on the kitchen floor for me to examine at length, but they still stare quizzicaly at me and talk quietly among themselves about it, lol!!
 
well, yes, folks do that...

My German friends and relations are still muttering away to themselves about me...and I've lived here for 24 years. I am sorry to hear about your aunt's decline.

Persil in the US seems to be the one we have here in Germany, Ariel is a different product in North America from what I can find out, a lesser product.

I think the Ariel/Persil competition is a bit like saying a cold lasts 7 days with the doctor and one week without. But in a good way.

Sunil has never impressed me at the price. Their damned tabs just sit in my detergent drawer and have to be broken up...where they then just sit in the tub.

Spee is good stuff, and there is a story behind it. It is a very old brand name and when Germany was divided, the GDR continued to produce and market it, tho' the quality was nowhere near that of the modern Western detergents. After reunification, for a pleasant change, the brand name was kept on, reformulated to modern levels and the advertising spiffed up. Lots of ads of a cute young guy doing the laundry while the old biddies look on, astonished that a) a man can use a washer and b) he gets things clean.
The current series is about getting things "mama clean without mama and saving money at the same time." See the link. Wish they'd bring back the cute guy...but I do like the fox.
Spee costs less than many other brand name detergents. I like it, but my Bavarian friends all turn their noses up at it as being inferior. Germany is very provencial about these things.

Burti is really useless, I agree. But expensive, darn they sell that stuff for a fortune. I find hair shampoo works better for that sort of delicate cleaning.

The Schlecker and Tenglemann store brands work well. Never tried Domol, have to give it a whirl.

 
"I am sorry to hear about your aunt's decline."

Thank you so much. If she makes it, she will turn 86 at month end, has advanced Parkinson's and a host of other age-related stuff going on, and is having a hard time of it. My mom is here, is 79, and frustrated she cannot help. My aunt was a professor at Heidelberg, like many women of the war generation, they can both be strong-willed and stubborn, and their relationship is tumultuous. She's currently in what you could call an assisted-living facility, is more like a country club would seem like here, but the care is incredible, warm, and loving, you wouldn't believe it. After she passes, I will possibly take a leave and stay there for awhile, to deal with the Beamte (bureaucracies) that my mother is simply not patient enough to deal with.

Sorry to carry on like this. I"m actually very upset right now, because my aunt is really no longer able to speak by telephone, and it's just so shocking although we've had years to prepare....

"After reunification, for a pleasant change, the brand name was kept on, reformulated to modern levels and the advertising spiffed up."

Yep, "Ostprodukte". Back in the 70s, when we would visit Dresden, you'd see the very plain, black-and-white boxes of Spee....fast-forward to the 90's, and it's this Henkel product, with snappy yellow graphics and a very distinct brand identity you KNOW had to be intended for some very specific demographics, so different from the "Wessi" Persil!

Florena products are a similar success story, once Beiersdorf snapped the name up. I actually prefer their shampoos and lotions, because they have simpler, cleaner formulas than Nivea products seem to.

I don't predict the DDR-era cars or washing machines, will make a comeback, however!

Everything is cyclical, though, and after a fashion, "Ami-Nostalgie" will become the next European craze, and Orange Crush, David Hasselhoff CDs, Hummers, Dickies barn coats, Hershey's Mr. Goodbar, and, yes, Tide with Bleach will be the latest rage in every German mall and hypermarket!

It's as predictable as Armageddon....:)
 
The German detergents

Ok, I see you know about other german detergents like domol, Spee etc.

Well Spee is also from Henkel. In Germany, Henkel sells 3 detergents:

1. Persil - their flagship
2. Weißer Riese - a detergent which is a bit cheaper
3. Spee - which is the cheapest brand of all three brands.

After Henkel, Persil is their best detergent, Spee the worst (They would never say that Spee is a bad detergent but it is the cheapest, so it does not offer the cleaning comfort of Persil)

Something funny: In the last detergent-test (they tested detergent for whites) Spee did better than Persil. Henkel protested and said that this cannot be possible. I laughed when I saw the results.

A great problem for the big enterprises like Henkel and P&G is, that consumers buy more and more the store brands like AS from Schlecker or domol from Rossmann. They wash really good and they are cheap.

AS seems to be very good but I never bought it because I do not agree with Schleckers way they treat their employees. Schlecker is one of the worst employers in Germany.

I had the domol from Rossmann two times and in my opinion it cleaned not so well like other detergents.

Ok and Sunil is really sh**. Several changes of the formulation caused nothing, the cleaning results are still bad and Burti...I think it is not very good but I never so used so far.

Greetz, Flo
 
Mr Wash

good point you make there about the lesser costing detergent out performing the flagship brand. Here in the UK which tested major detergents and found Surf, a budget brand of Unilever to give whiter whites than Unilever Persil. Surf even gave whiter whites than Ariel although what I remember is stain removal was not as good as either. Currently im torn between using Surf over persil on whites. The stain removal is no issue to myself. Whereas The whitest whites are. Sadly Surf has a market following along with Daz and Bold with a Chav attitude to them. Thats what puts me off.
 
Dixan

Louis was so kind as to send me some Dixan and not only does it clean as well as Persil, but it has a beautiful different fragrance as well. Never over-sudsing problems and we have very soft water here.
 
Hey guys,

today I got a little packet from my relatives in the USA.
A few weeks ago, I was speaking to them about washing in american washers and about detergent (especially about Tide) overseas.
So, what was in the packet?
Noooo, there wasn´t an american washer, BUT there was some Tide.
Really like the smell of it, it´s a very pleasant smell!
Well, I´m sorry for all those who wanted to change Tide with me!

greetings Nino!
 

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