Which new FL to get???

[ea56]

Thanks Joe! I have to tell you that it was sad to see that GE leave the house, I really liked that machine, it just used too much water. It sounds like from your post here that you made a good choice with your Kenmore HE TL, hope you get lots of trouble free service from it, from what you say its a good machine. At least I now am doing everything I can to conserve our precious water.

 

[user 3941]

Thanks! I hope it lasts too. It's been a great machine so far. Definitely impressed with it's performance. At some point I'll probably end up with a FL too. I'm actually now looking at heat pump dryers. So we'll see. I still need to get some videos of the new Kenmore!

 

[washman]

You pay your money you take your chances

Of course, we all want it cheap now don't we?

We all spend our money as we see fit. Some of us try to be socially conscious about where the product is made, some give a crap less if 5 year olds made it, just so long as it is cheap.

What is common is the mentality of most Americans in that since we buy on the cheap, if it breaks and costs too much to repair, just junk it and get another one. Manufacturers pay close attention to these buying habits and constantly find ways to get 5 cents cost out of a 2 dollar part. Constantly.

One can buy good quality products and the reality is, the good old US of A no longer has a lock on being the best. In fact, there's a great many things we no longer make or what we do make is not even in the top 10. You can thank two entities for this.....1. wall street and 2. Main street. Wall Street demands ROI, dividends, stock buybacks, yadda yadda and main street (you and me) scour the web or brick and mortar store for the cheapest of the cheap. What's an appliance maker to do? Pay USA wages and benefits and comply with goobermint regulations or say to hell with it, pack up the whole lot and send it to Mexico or China?

The consumer has already voted. And the vote is for the cheapest deal possible. And to hell with the social or economic consequences.

 

[mrb627]

Agreed.

It is difficult to compete with slave labor in a foreign country. I suppose if it doesn't happen close to home, then slavery isn't so bad? Thanks Walmart...

Malcolm

 

[henene4]

Social or economic consequences

I hate my self to confront with you again as you just will again call my arguments stupid, but hey, I'm in the age one can afford anything.

Do you even think chinese people are humans? They need a job as well. And in China, one can lead a life considerably cheaper than in the US or the EU. Probably not the most luxorius life, but certanly not uncomfortable.
Would everybody follow your way of thinking, China would vanish from the global market within seconds. MILLIONS would loose jobs. Worldwide economical problems would occur.
And you just put it like the US would not produce anything any more. I mean, even some applainces come from the US still. Less, ok, but that is the case EVERYWHERE arround the world.
You just equal outsourcing and globalisation with bad, stupid and horror. Without it, THIS website would probably be not existent. A short Whois search reveals this verry website is hosted via Panama. On servers probably made in China.

Short side note on that: In November last year, I was on an student exchange to China. On the second morning at my host family, I poured some milk in my cup and spilled EVERYTHING as I could not stop laughing. That milk was produced about 200km away from my home in Germany. My exchange student of course asked what was up, so I explained him. He asked his mother about it and translated it to me. What she said was something like "So much is no longer made arround here!"

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

To be honest henene, I can see where mrb627 is coming from. China is considered by and large to be a economic rival to the west, not a partner, as much as everyone would like to believe. Don't forget China has the fastest growing debt of any country in the world, increasing 400% since 2008 and it is slowing right down.

At my college, we have a small number of mainland Chinese student, but a lot of Hong Kong students and you can tell a difference. Mainlanders speak in their native tongue all the time, HKers speak in English as do the Japanese. Chinese are generally rude and quite aggressive.

As regards jobs, 1.3 billion population, they can sustain themselves. They didn't have all this investment not even 30 years ago. They claim they have developed and are advancing, we should pull out of china and let them fend for themselves, because the espionage which goes on amongst western and Japanese companies in China costing those company millions, the grey laws regarding monopoly and price fixing, essentially suing companies for no real reason other than to blackmail them, is far more trouble than tis worth, and it seems companies are taking action now. Panasonic are pulling out of China, Google already have, even Microsoft are closing down the Nokia factories and moving them to Vietnam.

Something like 40% of foreign businesses in China feel like doing business in there is more difficult than it was 5 years ago.

We don't have to mention their track record on product safety, with tainted baby powder and metal toys and products suing paint with lead in them.

I would buy a British, or German, or American made product any day over a Chinese made one definitely. You cant compete with slave labour, people have died over their because the conditions are so poor, their employees get "punished" if they do something wrong, not disciplined. That usually results in no lunch breaks, suspended pay and so on.

And to be honest, it is not beyond us to build washing machines or servers, and in fact, many companies are moving production back home thanks to automated manufacturing, increasing political tensions in China and higher shipping costs.

(My dad spent 10 years going to and from China and other far eastern countries, I spent 3 months in Hong Kong on a gap year)

 

[henene4]

Just stop saying slave labor. Just stop!

Do you know what slavery means? It means you are forced to work for no wage what so ever. You have no, absolutly no rights. You no longer are a person. If you refuse to work, you are forced by punishment to do so. Or you are killed.

I know there are cases like this that have happend, but saying each chinese job is slavers is offensive as hell.

Chinese people are not generally rude and offensive. I met so much people over there, and they were the friendliest I've met so far. I met students from the US several times.

China can not sustain it self. It was abled to 30 years ago, but is not today. The population grew by 400-500 milion AFAIK. Thats the US today.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Well, if only the Chinese could express their friendliness with their neighbours as they have annoyed just about all of them with their provocative, dangerous actions.

Anyways, where I can, I do not buy Chinese. It is certainly possible to do, easy once you know what to look for.

The reason that milk was made in Germany and shipped to China is probably because a lot of Chinese don't trust their own local companies, whether that is food or products. A baby nappy company in the UK actually limited the number of packets they would sell to European customer because they had such a demand in China for that very reason.

 

[washman]

I could care less about being offensive

I care about a quality product made by people paid a living wage and not forced to work like dogs for what little they get.

henene4 your idealism I once found amusing. Now I find it downright scary and causes me to question what kind of curriculum is being taught in Germany these days.

Ideals and realities are very far apart. One day you're going to see that son. And if you don't, someone's going to point it out to you. Clearly.

 

[henene4]

So, you take your statement as a personal experience with a group of people, and spread it over an entire country that makes up 1/7 or more of the world population.

And if you mean that China annoyed its neighbour countrys: Germany did so with the world, the UK did so with the US and the US with everything north of Bikini testing site.
Just different points of time.
And if you talk about the debts: The US dose not have a 400% growth since 2008 that ou claim for China; but still has pretty high per-head debt.

And, you basicly admitted that China is not abled to exist wihout global trading.

 

[henene4]

Oh, and you are not idealistic with idea of moving everything from China back home?

 

[BennyBoy]

After all of our great economist voice there opinions, I'd say, On second thought, Get a SpeedQueen!

Now all of you Economist go to your rooms! While the rest of us talk about appliances.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Most countries have annoyed their neighbours at one point in history, but with China, it has been going on for decades. It is a very oppressive, utilitarian country with very poor human rights record that are making our washing machines and things we buy each day, so it is very necessary to this topic to be honest guys, and no real need for someone to basically say "oh lets just talk about this, not that". They are all linked with each other.

I don't really see how one has to justify why they would buy a product purely based on where it is from and especially if it is from their home country. While I think that can be foolish, and I think I would buy something based on its performance, I can see why and admire why people do. It is no bad thing looking after your fellow countrymen. You buy a home-grown product, you have helped pay for a worker in your countries job, for them to have an income, for them to pay taxes so on and so on and crucially, keeps the money in the country.

This is not high level economics, it is very basic common sense.

But to be honest, China isn't a part of this topic, so probably doesn't make a difference anyway, but it is an interesting debate anyway, probably good for another thread.

 

[ea56]

I thought I was being socially conscious

By buying my new LG FL from a store in my city, thereby making sure that the tax dollars paid would stay in my community. And the whole purpose for buying a FL was to conserve water, also a socially concious motivation, so please don't lecture me or anyone else for making the decision to purchase a brand other than the beloved SQ. You are aboslutely entitled to your opinion, but you have no idea what my or anyone elses financial position might be. This is still America and I can buy what ever the hell I want to. Furthermore, the dollars that I spent at my local Lowes did help provide wages for the employee's there. I do believe in buying American when it is possible and makes sense, but I have to live on a fixed income in an economy where everything steadily continues to increase in cost. I wouldn't presume to ever criticize anyone here on this site for the choice that they may have made in purchasing an appliance, these are personal preferences. Others might consider keeping these opinions to themselves.