You'll be looking at the Speed Queen after a few months and wondering "Why did I buy overkill." The Whirlpool, GE, Frigidaire and LG will deliver what you want without breaking the bank. I do recommend home depot for your purchase and install.
Which new FL to get???
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I am an appliance tech, and can offer you my opinion. I also have a used appliance store, so I can tell you what junk comes through my door.
Speed queens rarely come in unless they are 30+ years old. Even then I still fix them and resell them. Great machines. The speed queen built "Amana" washers come in by the time they are 20 ish years old.
Lg's are great, because they are a good money generator. I like they way they look, and so do my customers. They consistently break at the 7-8 year mark. They are usually Ready for the scrapper by age 10. However said changing the spider gear is a diy job for $150 clearly has never changed one before. I have changed bearings and spiders on many fl's and they are all miserable experiences.
Overall the queens are the better value, as long as you make the commitment to them. They WILL break down, as any machine will, but it will be easily repaired, and back the spiders on the queen is stainless steel and will last the life of the machine.
The lg will tolerate 1 repair before you scrap it.
Speed queens rarely come in unless they are 30+ years old. Even then I still fix them and resell them. Great machines. The speed queen built "Amana" washers come in by the time they are 20 ish years old.
Lg's are great, because they are a good money generator. I like they way they look, and so do my customers. They consistently break at the 7-8 year mark. They are usually Ready for the scrapper by age 10. However said changing the spider gear is a diy job for $150 clearly has never changed one before. I have changed bearings and spiders on many fl's and they are all miserable experiences.
Overall the queens are the better value, as long as you make the commitment to them. They WILL break down, as any machine will, but it will be easily repaired, and back the spiders on the queen is stainless steel and will last the life of the machine.
The lg will tolerate 1 repair before you scrap it.
laundromat
Well-known member
So Mike,
Regarding CR, I don't go only by their records but also from my own. I worked at a Home Depot in Florida. We sold LG and I alone went to all of the KBIS shows seeing them and the mechanics used along with design and ease of operation,capacity features and price. After that,I had my own personal doubts but,after calling a few of my customers and receiving absolutely happy results, I personally bought one to see why they became our very best sellers. After five years of constant use of mine with absolutely no issues,Consumer Reports ratings of their Frequency of repair was the absolute best by a mile. By then, I'd sold hundreds of them and had two complaints. One was from a family who's in laws bought them a pair but didn't know about the button catcher. I had/ service go out on a cutesy call,no charge,and replace the pump. After that,no more issues. The second call was on a full size combination they make. That call was sarcastic and the couple was so glad I told them what to do. They lived in a condo on the eighth floor,had ability to install a full set and bought a Maytag set six years before. The dryer was taking two to three hours because it wad vented up six stories to the roof of the complex.I told them the problem and showed them a machine they never heard of. A ventless, 110 volt,all in one washer dryer combo. They bought it,had it installed and fell in love with it. We've kept in touch and they bought a SRCOND ONE to go next to the other. That was back in
2002. No issues.I still believe most of the problems folks ate having with front loaders is the way they abuse ALL their appliances. From overloading to closing the door on the front loaders causing mold to grow on rubber parts. They use way too much detergent assuming suds get clothes cleaner. The more you see,the cleaner the clothes are getting. We all know that's bullshit
If you don't like a,product because we don't make it here,your fooling only yourself. We had our own chances to make great front loaders but decided to build them overseas. The Whirlpools and their subsidiaries. Front loaders were made in Germany ,the Frigidaires in Mexico. The Neptunes were a joke and embarrassment to those of us who sold AND serviced them and the GEs were made in China. The Speed Queens had,issues and, with a smaller capacity (3.1 cu ft.) Their over rating and,over pricing limited their sales. I have yet to see any of the newer models of The Speed Queens but,they'd have to have an interior drum light you can turn on to watch it operate and a heater for sensitization and great clean out of the tubs. From what I have gathered so far,the SQs have neither. In my 8000 set, I can wash my KINGSIZE bedspread,both sheets,the skirt and pillow cases .The only SQ s I know that can handle that kind of load are commercial and pre set. I had three Affinities,all if which are now defunct, two GEs, BOTH of which are now defunct. Four Asko pairs I sold and serviced and seven of the older Admiral, Magic Chef and Philco compact sets that died horribly. I now have four LGs, a Miele Touchtronic full size front loader and another LG that's top loading(WT1101CW) and is the best washer i've ever had brand new,never used. That I got for FREE from a local used dealer who has contracts with Home Depot and Lowe's to remove broken down or damaged appliances and older units,picked up during delivery. The owner, Charlie Smith, just called me with yet another LG he doesn't want. This one has the square window but isn't an 8000. He said it won't come on and shows DL on the board. That's door lock. It might just need a new door lock assembly. I get them on line for $45. We'll see. Anyway, I sell the LGs for $459. So far, I've sold three and no issues at all. The first one was sold back in 2011. The last one,back in July,2014. Teaching customers how to maintain their appliances is necessary because that way they can't blame you for their own incompetence. Aloha.
Chuck
[this post was last edited: 5/21/2015-03:08]
Regarding CR, I don't go only by their records but also from my own. I worked at a Home Depot in Florida. We sold LG and I alone went to all of the KBIS shows seeing them and the mechanics used along with design and ease of operation,capacity features and price. After that,I had my own personal doubts but,after calling a few of my customers and receiving absolutely happy results, I personally bought one to see why they became our very best sellers. After five years of constant use of mine with absolutely no issues,Consumer Reports ratings of their Frequency of repair was the absolute best by a mile. By then, I'd sold hundreds of them and had two complaints. One was from a family who's in laws bought them a pair but didn't know about the button catcher. I had/ service go out on a cutesy call,no charge,and replace the pump. After that,no more issues. The second call was on a full size combination they make. That call was sarcastic and the couple was so glad I told them what to do. They lived in a condo on the eighth floor,had ability to install a full set and bought a Maytag set six years before. The dryer was taking two to three hours because it wad vented up six stories to the roof of the complex.I told them the problem and showed them a machine they never heard of. A ventless, 110 volt,all in one washer dryer combo. They bought it,had it installed and fell in love with it. We've kept in touch and they bought a SRCOND ONE to go next to the other. That was back in
2002. No issues.I still believe most of the problems folks ate having with front loaders is the way they abuse ALL their appliances. From overloading to closing the door on the front loaders causing mold to grow on rubber parts. They use way too much detergent assuming suds get clothes cleaner. The more you see,the cleaner the clothes are getting. We all know that's bullshit
If you don't like a,product because we don't make it here,your fooling only yourself. We had our own chances to make great front loaders but decided to build them overseas. The Whirlpools and their subsidiaries. Front loaders were made in Germany ,the Frigidaires in Mexico. The Neptunes were a joke and embarrassment to those of us who sold AND serviced them and the GEs were made in China. The Speed Queens had,issues and, with a smaller capacity (3.1 cu ft.) Their over rating and,over pricing limited their sales. I have yet to see any of the newer models of The Speed Queens but,they'd have to have an interior drum light you can turn on to watch it operate and a heater for sensitization and great clean out of the tubs. From what I have gathered so far,the SQs have neither. In my 8000 set, I can wash my KINGSIZE bedspread,both sheets,the skirt and pillow cases .The only SQ s I know that can handle that kind of load are commercial and pre set. I had three Affinities,all if which are now defunct, two GEs, BOTH of which are now defunct. Four Asko pairs I sold and serviced and seven of the older Admiral, Magic Chef and Philco compact sets that died horribly. I now have four LGs, a Miele Touchtronic full size front loader and another LG that's top loading(WT1101CW) and is the best washer i've ever had brand new,never used. That I got for FREE from a local used dealer who has contracts with Home Depot and Lowe's to remove broken down or damaged appliances and older units,picked up during delivery. The owner, Charlie Smith, just called me with yet another LG he doesn't want. This one has the square window but isn't an 8000. He said it won't come on and shows DL on the board. That's door lock. It might just need a new door lock assembly. I get them on line for $45. We'll see. Anyway, I sell the LGs for $459. So far, I've sold three and no issues at all. The first one was sold back in 2011. The last one,back in July,2014. Teaching customers how to maintain their appliances is necessary because that way they can't blame you for their own incompetence. Aloha.
Chuck
[this post was last edited: 5/21/2015-03:08]
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Well, those findings don't ring true here in Europe where LG products are relatively very average in terms of build quality and reliability. Which? magazine is completely unbiased, their findings are based on verified buyers and warranty company claims. I don't know, maybe they have suddenly improved but I doubt it. They are throw away products, not built to last.
If you wanted to look outside of SQ and LG, I would look at Bosch if you want a blend of quality, performance and value.
If you wanted to look outside of SQ and LG, I would look at Bosch if you want a blend of quality, performance and value.
Changing a bearing\spider on a FL is indeed a lot of work. But it is a 150$ DIY job. Plenty of tutorials online (some of them are actually helpfull) and even the bigger part suppliers sell rear drum assemblys round about 150-170$, spiders rarley north of 100$.
And yeah, the SQs are coming in at 30 years or more. Now, that means they were made 30 years ago or so. Does that directly mean the new once will last just as long? Not quite.
I know of several brands that were highly raved for decades until they all of the sudden with a new line of models just went a major step down. (What a strange sentence...)
I know of brands that managed just the opposite.
And yeah, the SQs are coming in at 30 years or more. Now, that means they were made 30 years ago or so. Does that directly mean the new once will last just as long? Not quite.
I know of several brands that were highly raved for decades until they all of the sudden with a new line of models just went a major step down. (What a strange sentence...)
I know of brands that managed just the opposite.
Sure, the spiders do cost about 100$ or so. It is not reasonable to expect a general homeowner to change a spider gear, or bearings. I'm sure there are a couple of hardcore (more time than money) diyers that would do it, but most would discard the machine.
Having looked inside a 25 year old queen, and a brand new one, I can tell you that they Are essentially the same. = good quality, and just as inefficient.
Don't take me for a speed queen fanatic like some of these folks on here. I personally don't care for them enough to put them in my laundry room. In fact, my washer is a lg. I may try the speed queen front loads, but I'm still in the fence.
The speed queen is a good quality machine that will need belt service after 5 years, and likely a belt every 5 years after. It will likely need bearings at the 15-20 year mark.
The lg will be long gone by then.
Having looked inside a 25 year old queen, and a brand new one, I can tell you that they Are essentially the same. = good quality, and just as inefficient.
Don't take me for a speed queen fanatic like some of these folks on here. I personally don't care for them enough to put them in my laundry room. In fact, my washer is a lg. I may try the speed queen front loads, but I'm still in the fence.
The speed queen is a good quality machine that will need belt service after 5 years, and likely a belt every 5 years after. It will likely need bearings at the 15-20 year mark.
The lg will be long gone by then.
But we talk about FLs here. And the SQ FL design has been around since around 2007 I think until they were redesigned recently.
Spider changing is removing pump, motor rotor and stator, remove dampers and springs. Remove counterweigth, as well as pressure and drawer-tub hoses. Lift out tub. Unscrew tubhalfs. Remove front half. Remove basket. Clean it. Unscrew the spider. Screw in the new one. Put it back together.
Should take a somewhat handy person with little equipment a good saturday.
Spider changing is removing pump, motor rotor and stator, remove dampers and springs. Remove counterweigth, as well as pressure and drawer-tub hoses. Lift out tub. Unscrew tubhalfs. Remove front half. Remove basket. Clean it. Unscrew the spider. Screw in the new one. Put it back together.
Should take a somewhat handy person with little equipment a good saturday.
I just got a new FL washer a few weeks back. I started out by looking at SQ. I was hot to get one, but I read about a few folks having issues. I thought, Do I want to drop $1800. on a SQ? There warranty is 5 years, and they claim the machine is built to run for 25 trouble free years, so why not have a 20 year warranty?, How about 10 years. If these SQ are all that, why only 5 years? Clearly there's a little dishonesty going on here. I got a dented LG for $525. and a 5 year warranty for $105.
Would I rather have a SQ? Yes! And if SQ had a 15 year warranty, thats what I would have bought.
As it stands now, I've got a 5 year machine for $630. And when the LG fails, I'll use the SQ in the laundry room til my parts arrive for the LG.
The other key factor is I'm a renter, on the third floor. And I did not like the thought of having an $1800. 270 lb machine in a place that was not my own. At $7. a week in coin machines, the LG will pay for it's self in less than three years.
And Fyi, My last machine lasted 12 years. I tore it apart and got the spider out in less than 30 minutes. If Electrolux charged $100. for a spider, I'd be using the machine today. They wanted over $300. and that was too much. While searching for a spider, I kept finding LG/Samsung spiders for under $100. This sort of PO'd me, but got me thinking how easy it is to change a spider, and how nice it was the the Koreans are charging a fair price for spiders. That's what steered me to LG.
Also, I payed $1000. for the electrolux 12 years back. Thats less than $2. a month for that washer. I'm 100% satisfied with the service I got from that machine. Never had any issues(but the spider) in all 12 years. I call that a great machine!
Would I rather have a SQ? Yes! And if SQ had a 15 year warranty, thats what I would have bought.
As it stands now, I've got a 5 year machine for $630. And when the LG fails, I'll use the SQ in the laundry room til my parts arrive for the LG.
The other key factor is I'm a renter, on the third floor. And I did not like the thought of having an $1800. 270 lb machine in a place that was not my own. At $7. a week in coin machines, the LG will pay for it's self in less than three years.
And Fyi, My last machine lasted 12 years. I tore it apart and got the spider out in less than 30 minutes. If Electrolux charged $100. for a spider, I'd be using the machine today. They wanted over $300. and that was too much. While searching for a spider, I kept finding LG/Samsung spiders for under $100. This sort of PO'd me, but got me thinking how easy it is to change a spider, and how nice it was the the Koreans are charging a fair price for spiders. That's what steered me to LG.
Also, I payed $1000. for the electrolux 12 years back. Thats less than $2. a month for that washer. I'm 100% satisfied with the service I got from that machine. Never had any issues(but the spider) in all 12 years. I call that a great machine!
I have to say that BennyBoy's in reply #27 took the words right out of my mouth regarding my decision to not buy a Speed Queen FL. I have been using a GE GTWN2800 TL for almost 3 years, and I had been very happy with it. But due to the severe drought here in Calif., and the rebates now being offered I decided to get a FL. The 2 local SQ dealers wanted $1799.00 plus delivery chgs, and tax bringing me up to $2000.00. I just couldn't justify that expenditure. So, this week I bought an LG WM3170CW from Lowes for $801.00 out the door, this included the 3 yr. extended warr. that begins after the 1 yr. LG warr. ends, so I have a 4 yr. warr., free delivery and installation ,tax and the hoses. It was delivered yesterday. I am very pleased with it and I expect that I should get many years of service from it, we are not hard on our appliances. Both the installers and the sales staff at Lowes said that they have the most customer satisfaction with the LG FL's. I did 6 loads yesterday at approx. 13 gals. per load = 78 gals. of water used, vs 35 gals per load X 6 = 198, so I saved 120 gals. It washed our Cal King quilted bedspread better than ever before, 4 King pillows ( 2 per load) the sofa slipcover all beautifully, using the Bulky cycle. Since it spins at med speed, when the cycle was complete I ran a spin only on high to get the large items as dry as possible before putting them in the dryer, and they all dried much quicker than I've been used to.[this post was last edited: 5/22/2015-16:16]
joeypete
Well-known member
Congrats on the new washer Eddie! I still have my Hydrowave covered in my office. LOL. I should sell it, but haven't tried very hard. They truly are great machines. I think you made a good choice though. I just read an article about the drought out there. I've been to CA dozens of times when I lived in AZ and the pictures blew me away.
Thanks Joe! I have to tell you that it was sad to see that GE leave the house, I really liked that machine, it just used too much water. It sounds like from your post here that you made a good choice with your Kenmore HE TL, hope you get lots of trouble free service from it, from what you say its a good machine. At least I now am doing everything I can to conserve our precious water.
joeypete
Well-known member
Thanks! I hope it lasts too. It's been a great machine so far. Definitely impressed with it's performance. At some point I'll probably end up with a FL too. I'm actually now looking at heat pump dryers. So we'll see. I still need to get some videos of the new Kenmore!
You pay your money you take your chances
Of course, we all want it cheap now don't we?
We all spend our money as we see fit. Some of us try to be socially conscious about where the product is made, some give a crap less if 5 year olds made it, just so long as it is cheap.
What is common is the mentality of most Americans in that since we buy on the cheap, if it breaks and costs too much to repair, just junk it and get another one. Manufacturers pay close attention to these buying habits and constantly find ways to get 5 cents cost out of a 2 dollar part. Constantly.
One can buy good quality products and the reality is, the good old US of A no longer has a lock on being the best. In fact, there's a great many things we no longer make or what we do make is not even in the top 10. You can thank two entities for this.....1. wall street and 2. Main street. Wall Street demands ROI, dividends, stock buybacks, yadda yadda and main street (you and me) scour the web or brick and mortar store for the cheapest of the cheap. What's an appliance maker to do? Pay USA wages and benefits and comply with goobermint regulations or say to hell with it, pack up the whole lot and send it to Mexico or China?
The consumer has already voted. And the vote is for the cheapest deal possible. And to hell with the social or economic consequences.
Of course, we all want it cheap now don't we?
We all spend our money as we see fit. Some of us try to be socially conscious about where the product is made, some give a crap less if 5 year olds made it, just so long as it is cheap.
What is common is the mentality of most Americans in that since we buy on the cheap, if it breaks and costs too much to repair, just junk it and get another one. Manufacturers pay close attention to these buying habits and constantly find ways to get 5 cents cost out of a 2 dollar part. Constantly.
One can buy good quality products and the reality is, the good old US of A no longer has a lock on being the best. In fact, there's a great many things we no longer make or what we do make is not even in the top 10. You can thank two entities for this.....1. wall street and 2. Main street. Wall Street demands ROI, dividends, stock buybacks, yadda yadda and main street (you and me) scour the web or brick and mortar store for the cheapest of the cheap. What's an appliance maker to do? Pay USA wages and benefits and comply with goobermint regulations or say to hell with it, pack up the whole lot and send it to Mexico or China?
The consumer has already voted. And the vote is for the cheapest deal possible. And to hell with the social or economic consequences.
mrb627
Well-known member
Agreed.
It is difficult to compete with slave labor in a foreign country. I suppose if it doesn't happen close to home, then slavery isn't so bad? Thanks Walmart...
Malcolm
It is difficult to compete with slave labor in a foreign country. I suppose if it doesn't happen close to home, then slavery isn't so bad? Thanks Walmart...
Malcolm
Social or economic consequences
I hate my self to confront with you again as you just will again call my arguments stupid, but hey, I'm in the age one can afford anything.
Do you even think chinese people are humans? They need a job as well. And in China, one can lead a life considerably cheaper than in the US or the EU. Probably not the most luxorius life, but certanly not uncomfortable.
Would everybody follow your way of thinking, China would vanish from the global market within seconds. MILLIONS would loose jobs. Worldwide economical problems would occur.
And you just put it like the US would not produce anything any more. I mean, even some applainces come from the US still. Less, ok, but that is the case EVERYWHERE arround the world.
You just equal outsourcing and globalisation with bad, stupid and horror. Without it, THIS website would probably be not existent. A short Whois search reveals this verry website is hosted via Panama. On servers probably made in China.
Short side note on that: In November last year, I was on an student exchange to China. On the second morning at my host family, I poured some milk in my cup and spilled EVERYTHING as I could not stop laughing. That milk was produced about 200km away from my home in Germany. My exchange student of course asked what was up, so I explained him. He asked his mother about it and translated it to me. What she said was something like "So much is no longer made arround here!"
I hate my self to confront with you again as you just will again call my arguments stupid, but hey, I'm in the age one can afford anything.
Do you even think chinese people are humans? They need a job as well. And in China, one can lead a life considerably cheaper than in the US or the EU. Probably not the most luxorius life, but certanly not uncomfortable.
Would everybody follow your way of thinking, China would vanish from the global market within seconds. MILLIONS would loose jobs. Worldwide economical problems would occur.
And you just put it like the US would not produce anything any more. I mean, even some applainces come from the US still. Less, ok, but that is the case EVERYWHERE arround the world.
You just equal outsourcing and globalisation with bad, stupid and horror. Without it, THIS website would probably be not existent. A short Whois search reveals this verry website is hosted via Panama. On servers probably made in China.
Short side note on that: In November last year, I was on an student exchange to China. On the second morning at my host family, I poured some milk in my cup and spilled EVERYTHING as I could not stop laughing. That milk was produced about 200km away from my home in Germany. My exchange student of course asked what was up, so I explained him. He asked his mother about it and translated it to me. What she said was something like "So much is no longer made arround here!"
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
To be honest henene, I can see where mrb627 is coming from. China is considered by and large to be a economic rival to the west, not a partner, as much as everyone would like to believe. Don't forget China has the fastest growing debt of any country in the world, increasing 400% since 2008 and it is slowing right down.
At my college, we have a small number of mainland Chinese student, but a lot of Hong Kong students and you can tell a difference. Mainlanders speak in their native tongue all the time, HKers speak in English as do the Japanese. Chinese are generally rude and quite aggressive.
As regards jobs, 1.3 billion population, they can sustain themselves. They didn't have all this investment not even 30 years ago. They claim they have developed and are advancing, we should pull out of china and let them fend for themselves, because the espionage which goes on amongst western and Japanese companies in China costing those company millions, the grey laws regarding monopoly and price fixing, essentially suing companies for no real reason other than to blackmail them, is far more trouble than tis worth, and it seems companies are taking action now. Panasonic are pulling out of China, Google already have, even Microsoft are closing down the Nokia factories and moving them to Vietnam.
Something like 40% of foreign businesses in China feel like doing business in there is more difficult than it was 5 years ago.
We don't have to mention their track record on product safety, with tainted baby powder and metal toys and products suing paint with lead in them.
I would buy a British, or German, or American made product any day over a Chinese made one definitely. You cant compete with slave labour, people have died over their because the conditions are so poor, their employees get "punished" if they do something wrong, not disciplined. That usually results in no lunch breaks, suspended pay and so on.
And to be honest, it is not beyond us to build washing machines or servers, and in fact, many companies are moving production back home thanks to automated manufacturing, increasing political tensions in China and higher shipping costs.
(My dad spent 10 years going to and from China and other far eastern countries, I spent 3 months in Hong Kong on a gap year)
At my college, we have a small number of mainland Chinese student, but a lot of Hong Kong students and you can tell a difference. Mainlanders speak in their native tongue all the time, HKers speak in English as do the Japanese. Chinese are generally rude and quite aggressive.
As regards jobs, 1.3 billion population, they can sustain themselves. They didn't have all this investment not even 30 years ago. They claim they have developed and are advancing, we should pull out of china and let them fend for themselves, because the espionage which goes on amongst western and Japanese companies in China costing those company millions, the grey laws regarding monopoly and price fixing, essentially suing companies for no real reason other than to blackmail them, is far more trouble than tis worth, and it seems companies are taking action now. Panasonic are pulling out of China, Google already have, even Microsoft are closing down the Nokia factories and moving them to Vietnam.
Something like 40% of foreign businesses in China feel like doing business in there is more difficult than it was 5 years ago.
We don't have to mention their track record on product safety, with tainted baby powder and metal toys and products suing paint with lead in them.
I would buy a British, or German, or American made product any day over a Chinese made one definitely. You cant compete with slave labour, people have died over their because the conditions are so poor, their employees get "punished" if they do something wrong, not disciplined. That usually results in no lunch breaks, suspended pay and so on.
And to be honest, it is not beyond us to build washing machines or servers, and in fact, many companies are moving production back home thanks to automated manufacturing, increasing political tensions in China and higher shipping costs.
(My dad spent 10 years going to and from China and other far eastern countries, I spent 3 months in Hong Kong on a gap year)
Just stop saying slave labor. Just stop!
Do you know what slavery means? It means you are forced to work for no wage what so ever. You have no, absolutly no rights. You no longer are a person. If you refuse to work, you are forced by punishment to do so. Or you are killed.
I know there are cases like this that have happend, but saying each chinese job is slavers is offensive as hell.
Chinese people are not generally rude and offensive. I met so much people over there, and they were the friendliest I've met so far. I met students from the US several times.
China can not sustain it self. It was abled to 30 years ago, but is not today. The population grew by 400-500 milion AFAIK. Thats the US today.
Do you know what slavery means? It means you are forced to work for no wage what so ever. You have no, absolutly no rights. You no longer are a person. If you refuse to work, you are forced by punishment to do so. Or you are killed.
I know there are cases like this that have happend, but saying each chinese job is slavers is offensive as hell.
Chinese people are not generally rude and offensive. I met so much people over there, and they were the friendliest I've met so far. I met students from the US several times.
China can not sustain it self. It was abled to 30 years ago, but is not today. The population grew by 400-500 milion AFAIK. Thats the US today.
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Well, if only the Chinese could express their friendliness with their neighbours as they have annoyed just about all of them with their provocative, dangerous actions.
Anyways, where I can, I do not buy Chinese. It is certainly possible to do, easy once you know what to look for.
The reason that milk was made in Germany and shipped to China is probably because a lot of Chinese don't trust their own local companies, whether that is food or products. A baby nappy company in the UK actually limited the number of packets they would sell to European customer because they had such a demand in China for that very reason.
Anyways, where I can, I do not buy Chinese. It is certainly possible to do, easy once you know what to look for.
The reason that milk was made in Germany and shipped to China is probably because a lot of Chinese don't trust their own local companies, whether that is food or products. A baby nappy company in the UK actually limited the number of packets they would sell to European customer because they had such a demand in China for that very reason.
I could care less about being offensive
I care about a quality product made by people paid a living wage and not forced to work like dogs for what little they get.
henene4 your idealism I once found amusing. Now I find it downright scary and causes me to question what kind of curriculum is being taught in Germany these days.
Ideals and realities are very far apart. One day you're going to see that son. And if you don't, someone's going to point it out to you. Clearly.
I care about a quality product made by people paid a living wage and not forced to work like dogs for what little they get.
henene4 your idealism I once found amusing. Now I find it downright scary and causes me to question what kind of curriculum is being taught in Germany these days.
Ideals and realities are very far apart. One day you're going to see that son. And if you don't, someone's going to point it out to you. Clearly.
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