White Bread

[mattl]

I make my own bread, mostly sourdough rye, occasionally 12 grain wheat, been doing it for years.  Before Christmas I bought a loaf of Sara Lee white bread as I was making a stuffed turkey breast and it called for 2c. soft bread crumbs.  Anyway I had a lot of bread left, had a few kids around during the holidays and they ate some, but still half a loaf left.

 

I've been slowly using it, a slice or two when I'm out of fresh made bread.  Anyway today I used the last two slices.  It had been sitting on my cupboard or in the cabinet for over a month and it was still soft and weirdly not moldy.  I can only imagine the chemicals they use to accomplish that.  Next time I need white bread crumbs I'll drag out the bread maker I put away years ago and let it do it's thing, or I suppose I could just make some the old fashioned way like I d with my other breads.  Sure don't need all the extra chemicals in my system.

 

[appnut]

Making your own white bread was an astute observation for the reason(s) cited.  Do you use anything like a vital gluten in your multigrain and wheat loaves?  I'm going to get some of that and try it with my wheat bread. 

 

[dustin92]

Yeah most commercially made breads are loaded with all kinds of preservatives. We had some store bought rolls for Christmas dinner, and just yesterday I tossed the last 3 in the trash- still soft and not moldy...They had been sitting on the counter between the stove and refrigerator, behind the Keurig, in a sealed bag, so warm and moist at all times...Yuck. Don't even want to think about what they put in them.

 

[launderess]

Today's "plastic wrapped" store bought bread

Is something out of Dr. Frankenstein's laboratory. It bears little resemblance to what one makes at home and or purchases from a real bakery.

As noted above most all store bought breads (excluding artisan and other specialty products) are loaded with chemical preservatives. This has come about mainly to lengthen shelf life both in stores and at home.

In many areas of the country locally baked "Wonder Bread" is a thing of the past. Rather baked goods are done in a central plant miles or even another state (or states) away. It will be then trucked (or in cases of some NYC area brands brought down by train from Canada) to reach stores. Since all of that transportation takes time *and* the stuff still must be able to sit on store shelves for a period before going stale/moulderng.....

Here in NYC walk past any supermarket or shop on rubbish collection days and you'll see bags and bags of breads/baked good products thrown away. Much of it despite the sell by date on bags are still good for several more days. The homeless know this and "dumpster dive" all the time for bread.

OTOH fresh baked bread lasts about a day (not that long in our house, *LOL*) or maybe a bit longer depending upon type and how one makes. Those of us old enough to remember hearing our parents or others use the term "day old bread". Back in the day during hard times local bakers would sell such goods at a discount and people lined up for it. When times are tough and you've got lots of mouths to feed (or even just yourself) day old bread can come in handy. Mother Dear used DoB for stuffing, as an extender when making meatballs or meatloaf, and of course for toast or toasted sandwiches.

 

[lordkenmore]

Remind me to never buy mass market bread every again... LOL

I've seldom bought it, although there have been moments I've bought some for whatever reason. Then, as I use the bread up, I'm reminded of how awful it is, which is why I so seldom buy it.

This raises, though, an interesting point in my mind: how much bread is a staple for many, no matter how bad it gets. Some people might not have any basis for comparison, of course, having never had anything but grocery store bread. But even people who have had experience with the Good Stuff still continue buying grocery store crap.

The only bread I've bought at all regularly is stuff from grocery store bakery. This stuff is not great, but it's a huge step up from likes of Wonder bread. And it appears to be a more honest product that actually naturally ages. I've only stopped buying this bread regularly because most of what I see is white, and I'm trying to avoid white flour.

I have also sometimes bought mass market style grocery store bread that is allegedly better with organic ingredients. No idea if this also means less chemicals--I should study the ingredient label sometime. But the quality doesn't seem a whole lot better than regular bagged bread, but has a noticeably higher price.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Those of us old enough to remember hearing our parents or others use the term "day old bread".

The concept lives on here at least at some grocery stores. My regular store has a huge wire rack loaded with bakery products that are too old to sell in the bakery itself.

 

[lordkenmore]

Irrelevant grocery store bread memory from when I was a child...

I could be incredibly picky about bread. One night, an ad came on TV. The theme was: this is wonderful bread that your kids will just love, so buy a loaf today!!!! I looked at my mother, and suggested we try a loaf.

She grimly informed me that we had, and I'd despised it.

 

[launderess]

Only time store bought bread reaches this house

Is for special things like hamburger or sausage buns/rolls. Otherwise it is home baked or from local bakery.

Truth to tell many chain bakeries or places that sell baked goods includings such as Maison Kayser aren't like the locals of old. Pre-made doughs, mixes etc... arrive via truck and are baked on premises. Places will tell you this helps with consistent results from store to store. It also means you don't need a trained and highly educated in the craft of baking, baker. Just anyone who can be shown what to do..... The Maison Kayser shops in our area are all staffed by Latino/Hispanic immigrants who remain overnight IIRC to do the baking.

Now then, where your "Wonder Bread" comes from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Bread

 

[wayupnorth]

My local Wal-Mart gets the frozen bread dough, proofs it spices and seasons it and they will slice for you happily for $1.00 a loaf. Everything Italian is my favorite. It may be white, but after toasting with garlic powder and butter, I'll get another loaf every week and say hi to the bakery ladies and to the same people I see there every week. It may be a big conglomerate store, but I see the same good people working there every week.

 

[artcurus]

I miss Rainbow Bread, it made the best toast in vintage toasters. :-(

 

[dartman]

We have a excellent old Zojorushi bread maker, but mostly buy Country Oven and 12 grain and it must be locally made and low or no preservatives as we're lucky if it lasts a week, sometimes less. I guess the bread maker is a plan ahead thing and its hard to find a recipe we both like so don't use it like we used to and we mostly eat whole wheat, which it can handle fine.
Of course basic white always tastes great but trying to be healthy.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

IMO, the best bread EVER came from The Colchester Bakery in Colchester, Conn. The whole extended family were customers for decades. They made the best rye and pumpernickel. A loaf that looked like it'd weigh 2 pounds weighed more like....5!

Many, many tears were shed when they closed...

I haven't had bread that good since...

A tid bit I came across years ago while researching the economic consequences of the Plague: The type of wheat grown for white bread did not do well in the increasingly cool and rainy summers of the Little Ice Age. Europe's obsession with white bread was a contributing factor to the high death rates during the Plague. In many areas the population was malnourished because they would only buy white bread and refused other kinds. In some cities (mostly northern and eastern Europe) the cost of white bread was so high it never became a staple. Therefore those cities had a lower % of the population suffering from chronic malnutrition when the plague hit. The result was a lower death rate.

 

[mattl]

vital wheat gluten...

Appnut - Yes, I've used it, but not consistently.  It helps in the 12 grain bread, but not that much in my rye.

 

For my rye I've taken bits of different recipes and came up with a method that works for me.  My stater is very forgiving, I can leave it in the back of the fridge for a month or so , feed it and it takes off.  Interesting note, I generally bake it in my Electrolux oven with a pan of water for steam.  The E's oven is sealed.  I baked it once in my trusty '59 Frigidaire oven and it turned out completely different, mainly due to the fact it's vented though the back burner.

 

[gusherb]

This reminds me of the time I got in a big argument with my rather controlling grandmother. I was going to her house after school for some time, every day she had something for us to eat. This one day I show up and she fixes me a roast beef sandwich. I bit into it and the bread was like slimeball mush. I about hurled all over her kitchen table. She asks me what's wrong with it and I tell her the bread is too mushy, she insists its fine and insists I eat it. I persist and explain to her that the bread is horrible and very mushy.
I get up to see what kind of bread it was and it was Sara Lee white bread...
I sit back down and proceed to pick the beef off of the bread while she's yelling at me to eat.

When I got home I told my mother all about how she tried to make me eat something absolutely disgusting. A few days later my mother goes over there and my grandma starts telling her how I complained about the bread being too mushy with the roast beef, and then explains how she fixed herself a roast beef sandwich a day later and couldn't eat it.....because it was too mushy.

That was the one time I ever got an admission out of my grandma that she was wrong and I was right. LOL.

She was used to being able to boss everyone around, children, grandkids, everyone. Well, she met her match with me as a child! LOL

 

[norgeway]

I guess im in the minority

But I LOVE plain old white bread, We had some vile multi grain something or another growing up and my Aunt had even worse Roman Meal, Whole Wheat tastes like hay to me!LOL

 

[warmsecondrinse]

My ex's family is from Italy and there's quite a group here in NYC who can trace their roots to a group of small villages in Abruzzo.

There was one thing that never got old: Listening to elders' responses to the doc's advice to "eat healthy". I.e. more whole grains, less meat, etc. The response was always the same:

"I upended my entire life and left my family and came to this country BECAUSE I wanted to eat white read and have meat with every meal. GODDAMMIT, I am NOT going back to the "starving peasant" food I grew up with. Whole wheat pasta & bread? I don't think so!"

 

[arbilab]

I liked facktry bread (Wonder, Rainbo, Baird's) back when it WAS bread but taint no more. Last vestige hereabouts ended when Bimbo (Mexico) bought Mrs. Baird's (local legacy).

But that wasn't the end of the story. It keeps getting WORSE! It's now coarse, swirled like a cinnamon roll instead of one consistent texture. ALL of it. No matter what brand/label.

Wait! It gets worse. The texture changes with the WEATHER. Something master bakers take into account but Bimbo doesn't even bother with a computer program to SIMULATE baking mastery. Assembled by the same no-hablos making Taco Bells, whose edibility fell from 'pretty good' to 'not at all' in the last 10 years. And I'm no haute cuisinart; I liked airline food back when there was such thing.

Though it galls me, I still buy it. It's not really suitable as "bread" but it makes toast/french and works as something by which to pick up a sandwich. Oh, and it lasts for weeks. I try not to throw food away, so it meets that criteria. But 'month-old bread' is just not natcherul.

WAIT!! It gets WORSE. Bimbo (do they know what that means in English?) has bought up premium brands like Oroweat, Pepperidge, Entenmann's. They're the White Consolidated of baking.

 

[glomain]

w.c.i. of baking

it couldn't get any crappier

 

[mattl]

On a somewhat related note...

Recently I've been reading that the rapid rise process that major bread producers use is a responsible for a big part of the rise in celiac disease. The quick rise does not give the yeast time to do its thing with the wheat.

 

[oldskool]

So.......

....with all the enlightenment regarding poor quality and potential health risks of most "store bought" breads, what recommendations does this constituency have for preparing bread at home? Recipes/methods please? Is a bread machine a viable option and if so, is there a particular brand that's recommended or is it best to make bread without a machine?

For a long time, I've had many of the same concerns shared in this thread, especially the long shelf life seeming outrageous. Bagels that remain on the counter for a month with no mold, no deterioration seems suspect for chemical alteration.

 

[petek]

When it comes to store bought sliced white bread I only like it for my peanut butter sandwiches, soft and mushy and it has to be Wonder to be just right.  I used to make a lot of home made bread but my partner doesn't eat much bread. So if I make more than one loaf the rest goes stale fast. 

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I've not been following the whole 'Celiac Explosion' very closely, but I saw one news article a few months back.

Apparently Celiac was long thought of as an "on/off" disease. You have it or you don't, the gluten source isn't relevant, and everyone had the same threshold with factors x,y,& z accounting for individual differences, etc. etc.

Now, many (most?) of the newer cases don't appear to fall into this paradigm. Both the source of the gluten and how the grain is prepared both seem to have their own own separate and independent influences on both threshold level and degree/type of response.

The consensus was there's either a new 'mild' celiac about or there's something else (possibly related, possibly not) that does a damn good imitation of it.

Maybe the rapid rise process is related the appearance of this new 'mild' celiac as well as the spread mentioned above?

 

[launderess]

@petek

You can wrap (cling then add tin foil) fresh baked bread and stash it in freezer. It will keep nicely for a week or so. Used to do this when still on a my baking craze. *LOL* In fact really must either give that a start again or move some of the equipment along...

For real ease simply pre-slice your bread before freezing. It can go in a Ziploc freezer bag then you only have to take out slices as needed. Either allow to defrost or pop in toaster or microwave.

 

[arbilab]

Sprue

I haven't (yet) experienced digestive issues from the change in bread. OTOH, if MOLD can't digest it, what makes us think we can? Mold can digest soap scum fer chrissake.

I'm 94% certain that the 'swirl' characterization and coarse texture result from a process change that has somewhat-gradually engulfed the entire industry. Almost certainly because it spews more product in less time, with total disregard for what that product is.

Mrs. Baird is rolling in her grave. Along with Howdy Doody and others sponsored by Wonder.

Then there's Roundup-Ready wheat, brought to you by Monsanto, satan of the food chain.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Maybe the rapid rise process is related the appearance of this new 'mild' celiac as well as the spread mentioned above?

I'm not entirely sure about this... But it does seem to me that I've at least heard the suggestion that modern "let's get it to rise as fast as possible" grocery store bread may cause people issues.

Indeed, I think I've noticed issues with whole wheat grocery store bread. Not sure if it's coincidence, or what, but more than once, after eating some, I've not felt as good. Strangely, I have not noted this with white. I also don't really notice any issues with whole wheat pasta.

As for the chemicals used in bread that allow it to linger months... Another thought has hit me: some into organic eating go as far as saying that if it can't rot/mold/otherwise decay, don't eat it.

I also have heard allegations that say that a lot of gluten intolerance isn't gluten, but rather intolerance to chemicals used by wheat farmers, most notably glyphosate (sold by Monsanto under the Roundup name).

 

[lordkenmore]

>Strangely, I have not noted this with white.

To clarify, I have not noted problems with white bread. BUT the only white breads I have eaten in recent memory are NOT the grocery store/Wonder bread type breads. "Lowest" grade I go is in-store bakery bread.

 

[xraytech]

When I buy bread I rather buy Mancini's Italian, wheat, or Rye bread. It's made locally in Pittsburgh. The white breads and rolls have the best taste as they are still using Lard in their baking.
My other bread is home made in a local Amish deli near my home. I buy wheat bread there.

Either one is usually good for about 3 days before starting to get hard, then I have about 1-2 more days before it goes moldy

 

[mamapinky]

No matter how you slice it (pun intended) mass produced plastic bag bread is lousy. Theres so much preservatives in it it doesn't even taste like bread. And I doubt that's any good for the body. I won't buy the stuff e cept an occasional hot dog or burger bun, very occasionally. I buy my breads in a small town family owned bakery. Real bread made like we do at home, free of preservatives. Once in awhile my grandsons will point to the bread in the grocery store and say..grandma why don't we ever buy real bread lol.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Once in awhile my grandsons will point to the bread in the grocery store and say..grandma why don't we ever buy real bread lol.

This can be a Teaching Moment! Explain that "real bread" is what you eat, not the crap the grocery store tries to pass off as bread.

This reminds me of one memory. My mother told me that when she was growing up that my grandmother baked all the bread the family used. Probably, one assumes, as a cost saving measure. My mother said that she envied the kids at school whose families got bread at the grocery store. Years later, of course, she realized the bread she got at home was much better. I assume her wish for the store bread was probably a social class thing--the better off families bought bread at the store type of thing.

Interestingly, perhaps, got into the habit of buying store bread later in life. I don't know if she stopped baking bread entirely, but my memory seems to suggest that when we visited, it was grocery store bread served. And, oh, yes, I remember one time when we found a supply of frozen bread dough in her freezer. (Bought at the grocery store. Plop in a pan, let thaw/rise IIRC, bake, and pretend you spent all day kneading! Some of that got baked, and wasn't as good as real home baked bread as I recall.)

 

[lordkenmore]

>I buy my breads in a small town family owned bakery.

I remember my grandmother doing that sometimes. I'm not sure if she bought at a bakery as such, but she did buy bread baked in a bakery that also sold through local grocery stores. I think she liked it better, but it wasn't something always available, and did cost more. (My grandmother was quite cost conscious...)

I've bought bread from small bakeries, as well, and it's a huge step up past standard grocery store fare. Although I'm not sure that I've had anything as good as the best home baked bread.