Why Has Whirlpool Never Sold a BOL Power Clean Module?

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agiflow said:
It surprises me with my current portable Haiet GE how well it actually cleans, and I think that's mostly due to the detergent. But this machine also uses more water and runs both spray arms at the same time. You can get a very good wash on the 48-minute cycle. Not too bad.
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There's something to say about how good detergent has gotten.
I know it was rough when the phosphates were removed for a bit. There were scaling and powdery coating issues, especially with Cascade in the mid 2000s.
But the formulas are SO good now. The detergents definitely clean better than they used to with all the enzymes now.
Even things like eggs! Egg residue NEVER used to come off completely, or sometimes not at all.
OK, great, phosphates are softening my water, but there's egg everywhere!
Not anymore. Even cheapo Target brand powder cleans eggs decently well, in a Powerclean with a short main wash.

The only challenge I ran into with modern detergents wit bleach-free formulas, is when I got my KUD23 a few years ago.
The main wash and final rinse are so short, it wasn't removing coffee or tea stains very well, and they started to build up.
My (brief) solution was to test around and find that Finish Powder, which was available only at this local Russian grocery store, worked wonders on the coffee stains.
Oh, but then Reckitt discontinued it totally -_-

The next best thing, was finding a KUDS25, with the slightly longer main wash, and longer, heated final rinse.
That really seems to act better at getting coffee stains out, and while using a wider variety of detergents.
SO far, powder Cascade, Seventh Generation, or Finish Power pacs, seem to be working best with that machine.
Cascasde pods of any variety are awful in the Powerclean. Way way too much foam.
 
johnb300m said:
The next best thing, was finding a KUDS25, with the slightly longer main wash, and longer, heated final rinse.
That really seems to act better at getting coffee stains out, and while using a wider variety of detergents.
SO far, powder Cascade, Seventh Generation, or Finish Power pacs, seem to be working best with that machine.
Cascasde pods of any variety are awful in the Powerclean. Way way too much foam.
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This dishwasher is one of the best ever created. The secret is turning down the hot water to 120 or lower. The cooler fill will result in a longer main wash which helps with all foods, backed on and cooked on foods, stains, tomato sauce, and dried on soils. Filling both cups is also key and of course use Pots and Pans/Heavy when called for. The two heated washes make all the difference in the world.
 
Chetlaham said:
Not being sarcastic or facetious, but do food particles still dissolve on the 1 hour cycle? Will the filter clog up after constant use of the 1 hour cycle?
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I ran my dishwasher with the door open to see why the upper rack was spinning the spray arm so slowly. Come to find out that the spray was very weak in my Whirlpool/Kenmore dishwasher.
 
gelaundry4ever said:
I ran my dishwasher with the door open to see why the upper rack was spinning the spray arm so slowly. Come to find out that the spray was very weak in my Whirlpool/Kenmore dishwasher.
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Jeez!
I would imagine that the whole kitchen and you would get a messy bath!
Pour a cup of CLR in from the beginning of the normal cycle and let it run to the end.
It'll help break up any clogs in the lines due to hard water deposits.
😦
 
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gelaundry4ever said:
I ran my dishwasher with the door open to see why the upper rack was spinning the spray arm so slowly. Come to find out that the spray was very weak in my Whirlpool/Kenmore dishwasher.
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There must be some buildup Jerome.
Over the years, and yes I’ve posted clips here, I’ve had clear door fronts on GE and KitchenAid dishwashers. Models that alternate washarms. And I’ve observed the jets, both top and bottom, are very strong. The bottom jets will indeed hit the ceiling. So will the top jets.
Whirlpool platform machines will have their upper arms spin between 30-40rpm. That’s in the tech sheets under the machines.
GEs will spin much faster, but both are spraying strongly.
Don’t you worry your little ticker.
 
johnb300m said:
There must be some buildup Jerome.
Over the years, and yes I’ve posted clips here, I’ve had clear door fronts on GE and KitchenAid dishwashers. Models that alternate washarms. And I’ve observed the jets, both top and bottom, are very strong. The bottom jets will indeed hit the ceiling. So will the top jets.
Whirlpool platform machines will have their upper arms spin between 30-40rpm. That’s in the tech sheets under the machines.
GEs will spin much faster, but both are spraying strongly.
Don’t you worry your little ticker.
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I once opened the door on my Kitchenaid while it was running the prewash, a bit too quickly, to add another dish.
And boy oh boy I got a nice hot shower for being that dumb! 😦
 
johnb300m said:
There must be some buildup Jerome.
Over the years, and yes I’ve posted clips here, I’ve had clear door fronts on GE and KitchenAid dishwashers. Models that alternate washarms. And I’ve observed the jets, both top and bottom, are very strong. The bottom jets will indeed hit the ceiling. So will the top jets.
Whirlpool platform machines will have their upper arms spin between 30-40rpm. That’s in the tech sheets under the machines.
GEs will spin much faster, but both are spraying strongly.
Don’t you worry your little ticker.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? It sounded like it was spinning at 10 rpm on the upper rack, even with a full water charge.
 
phillymatt53 said:
I once opened the door on my Kitchenaid while it was running the prewash, a bit too quickly, to add another dish.
And boy oh boy I got a nice hot shower for being that dumb! 😦
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The Kenmore by Bosch could clean circles around the Whirlpool. I remember when I first opened the Bosch built Kenmore, I had a face full of water.
 
gelaundry4ever said:
Are you sure? It sounded like it was spinning at 10 rpm on the upper rack, even with a full water charge.
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You practically live on this website Jerome. Cmon, use your problem solving skills. You haven’t picked up tips and info from other members or the experts?
Voyager machines get clogged up if their chopper malfunctions or breaks. This has been common knowledge for like a decade.
 
Chetlaham said:
Indeed. However, eventually, all the water gets filtered through and its associated particles.

If you're getting periodic yibbles, might have an issue with the machine.





At the cost of a long cycle. At best. No thanks.

The real credit belongs to Maytag. If you want true 100% filtration, go with a Maytag Jet Clean. You can tell, because those spray arm holes won't clog. Not that they clog on the Power Clean.



Brown stuff on the screen? No thanks. A real filter gets hit with a continuous powerful spray from underneath the wash arm. Or in the case of Jet-Clean, a wall of four powerful sheets of water 100 times a minute.
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Chetlaham said:
My honest opinion I think Whirlpool should not have competed with GE, instead they should have tried to win over the low end consumer's market.

I do agree, Maytag putting their name on anything besides the Jet-Clean was a huge mistake.


Me personally, I'd honestly have given up the detergent dispenser, rinse aid dispenser, thermal holds and nylon racks before going dura wash. Then again everyone isn't like me, so not enough people would have demanded improved builder grade models.
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I absolutely detest builders grade
 
phillymatt53 said:
At times, I load my gourmet pots, trays, and frying pans, and the "stuck on" food from cooking/baking is difficult to loosen.
Surely no dishwasher's got enough of water pressure to remove that grime.
Maybe a garden "pressure washer" would do something.
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My Bosh would tackle it ALL!!
 
Another pointless thread with 2 certain members ranting about their percieved issues with modern day dishwashers.

Having used several of these modern day dishwashers, both manual and auto clean filters my conclusion is as follows:
Used correctly with scraped dishes, an adequate amount of detergent in both cups, and adequately hot water, almost every* modern dishwasher with some exceptions will clean just about whatever mess I can throw at them. I currently have a BOL builder grade whirlpool from some point in the last 10 years. I scrape, load and run on the normal cycle. I unload it when its done, end of story. It flips measuring cups in the top rack and runs both arms at the same time, with one users nightmare of a wet rotor magnetic wash pump. For how much ranting happens you'd think that their experience would be matched by more people, but it seems this thread keeps happening in different shapes and forms repeatedly. The only dishwasher I have ever used that I have been truly disappointed by was an older GE.
 
johnb300m said:
You practically live on this website Jerome. Cmon, use your problem solving skills. You haven’t picked up tips and info from other members or the experts?
Voyager machines get clogged up if their chopper malfunctions or breaks. This has been common knowledge for like a decade.
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I did clean the filter before. I knew that 65 watt pump was gonna go out sooner or later. I wish it was a powerful motor like Maytag.
 
egress said:
Another pointless thread with 2 certain members ranting about their percieved issues with modern day dishwashers.

Having used several of these modern day dishwashers, both manual and auto clean filters my conclusion is as follows:
Used correctly with scraped dishes, an adequate amount of detergent in both cups, and adequately hot water, almost every* modern dishwasher with some exceptions will clean just about whatever mess I can throw at them. I currently have a BOL builder grade whirlpool from some point in the last 10 years. I scrape, load and run on the normal cycle. I unload it when its done, end of story. It flips measuring cups in the top rack and runs both arms at the same time, with one users nightmare of a wet rotor magnetic wash pump. For how much ranting happens you'd think that their experience would be matched by more people, but it seems this thread keeps happening in different shapes and forms repeatedly. The only dishwasher I have ever used that I have been truly disappointed by was an older GE.
Click to expand...

Pointless from your vantage. I don't deny that. If your dishwasher is working for you, it is working for you. However no two people will agree on everything or obtain the same results in everything they use. For me and Jerome long cycle times, limited particle processing, cumbersome human machine interfaces and premature failures are a very real issue for us. What we want and need was available for decades, perfected and then in 2013 vanished.

Do others feel the same way? Indeed. At the same time like all to many we are forced to go with the flow. I just want a world where everyone can be happy.
 
Chetlaham said:
Pointless from your vantage. I don't deny that. If your dishwasher is working for you, it is working for you. However no two people will agree on everything or obtain the same results in everything they use. For me and Jerome long cycle times, limited particle processing, cumbersome human machine interfaces and premature failures are a very real issue for us. What we want and need was available for decades, perfected and then in 2013 vanished.

Do others feel the same way? Indeed. At the same time like all to many we are forced to go with the flow. I just want a world where everyone can be happy.
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So say that and move on? It doesn't need to be stated *over* and *over* and *over* and *over* again ad infinitum.

Going back to the original topic of this thread however, from my perspective there are a few main reasons why there was never a BOL powerclean. as others have stated it likely cost more to produce compared to the durawash, which isn't surprising. Additionally, at the time of its discontinuation the majority of manufacturers were moving towards entirely tall-tub production. Can you even get a non-tall tub dishwasher anymore? I think the last holdout I saw was the BOL GE with its abysmal wash performance. The powerclean also has a larger motor, which costs more - yet another reason it isn't well suited for BOL use. Finally, it was unable to meet increasing efficiency regulations, of which they had already gotten as much out of it as possible. To summarize, the Powerclean was unable to compete with the WP globalwash platform in terms of cost, efficiency, size, and noise levels along with complexity, factors which led expectedly to its discontinuation in 2013, superseded by the point voyager, and later the global wash/clean water wash systems.

Additionally, to your earlier comment about Whirlpool innovating. I don't think I've seen anything super recent in the past few years, but the clean water wash system I think is quite innovative. It seems to be reasonably reliable and performs better than what my experience with a point voyager was. in a sense it is a modern day descendent of the powerclean, as much as you may disagree on that statement. Good soil handling, an interface that albeit is touch based but is clearly laid out, and construction that from my perspective while isn't as easy to repair as the global wash, is still quite accessible. More innovative than the wash systems from bosch and other manufacturers which seem to have stagnated on manual clean filters, not that that's necessarily bad.
 
egress said:
So say that and move on? It doesn't need to be stated *over* and *over* and *over* and *over* again ad infinitum.

Going back to the original topic of this thread however, from my perspective there are a few main reasons why there was never a BOL powerclean. as others have stated it likely cost more to produce compared to the durawash, which isn't surprising. Additionally, at the time of its discontinuation the majority of manufacturers were moving towards entirely tall-tub production. Can you even get a non-tall tub dishwasher anymore? I think the last holdout I saw was the BOL GE with its abysmal wash performance. The powerclean also has a larger motor, which costs more - yet another reason it isn't well suited for BOL use. Finally, it was unable to meet increasing efficiency regulations, of which they had already gotten as much out of it as possible. To summarize, the Powerclean was unable to compete with the WP globalwash platform in terms of cost, efficiency, size, and noise levels along with complexity, factors which led expectedly to its discontinuation in 2013, superseded by the point voyager, and later the global wash/clean water wash systems.

Additionally, to your earlier comment about Whirlpool innovating. I don't think I've seen anything super recent in the past few years, but the clean water wash system I think is quite innovative. It seems to be reasonably reliable and performs better than what my experience with a point voyager was. in a sense it is a modern day descendent of the powerclean, as much as you may disagree on that statement. Good soil handling, an interface that albeit is touch based but is clearly laid out, and construction that from my perspective while isn't as easy to repair as the global wash, is still quite accessible. More innovative than the wash systems from bosch and other manufacturers which seem to have stagnated on manual clean filters, not that that's necessarily bad.
Click to expand...


I 100% agree with you minus the complexity statement. The Power Clean was just to different than what the market and government wanted at face value. So production seized. 2013 was a dark year for me. You're correct that you can't get a residential standard tub anymore. A shame really, because standard tubs were easy to service and typically did not need to be pulled out of the cabinet. Which you mentioned.

The clean water wash system is compact and great for what it does but it will never hold a candle to the cleaning and food soil handling capabilities of a Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module.

Manual clean filter are IMO the worst, and for me the most disappointing is their use in commercial dish-machines. Champion got it partially right in that their machines used a vertical reversing pump and motor that behaved similarly to a Power Clean but still not to the same level of soil processing.


1759714224673.jpeg


The above, but with a redesigned module and beefed up motor would be a dream. I've been contemplating on buying a low temperature dish machine to avoid the tall tub fiasco especially since modern dish machines be programed to start with an empty sump and drain said sump at the end of a cycle however the only thing holding me back are the manual clean strainer filters.


The simple push to start button would fulfill the BOL control requirements.
 
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Chetlaham said:
Jerome, you know me to well. And, if reverse rack of course. This is how I imagine a modern reverse rack:



View attachment 319466


Before anyone bemoans me about the above being a fantasy, here is the Ebay link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/136406082424?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20231107084023&meid=9040b3dc954a4a299ceb5e969036db44&pid=101875&rk=4&rkt=4&sd=146815139210&itm=136406082424&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2332490&algv=SimVIDwebV3WithCPCExpansionEmbeddingSearchQuerySemanticBroadMatchSingularityRecallReplaceKnnV4WithVectorDbNsOptHotPlRecallCIICentroidCoviewCPCAuto&_trksid=p2332490.c101875.m1851&itmprp=cksum:1364060824249040b3dc954a4a299ceb5e969036db44|enc:AQAKAAABcG96wQ16jds4VFcrhy1F3d4mbwZUJI9Fs%2BgdXYAHIzlX2e3YaNh7x%2BEnKA3G%2BCqSl1Xn4McfcWFK1GytmS2qxJ87mtE8Gm3iR1Ja4WBwh0hNHJrJx3Ki5mp04ow4CO7lP%2BooCybZDDU%2BbbSwmg7CbTin%2BBzBzbCYVnbjvyQAHu6--HI4MB7SvJl5IJqlyvomgoLMlgT6qAJzX0SANJhty2crZmV6ktpuPEjrnKYPGRM9uhlZ%2F08JRSU84G--xziEe9EdGzc47C%2FrJy03l%2BHdSHmBpk6rKZJuOZaOSk17nFjysFyUlUI%2FdOXDw8dt4y%2FuMcpXH%2FkdEgY5JFuB0TgeXqTJseud6iqOA662ByOUuvC0XVEIzfcEd47D%2F2qVQ9TTdVzQcQKG9N1lElzQGWZIJJm8Yl0qQ8P%2BAtvEqndzmnlvIdmqsLGCyWxP7nUb450pJd3TsJ%2Bx3X%2BF7afwSPj7gC4Raq628AyRBovA1qj8jses|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2332490&epid=143273261&itmmeta=01K6VFSFVZGBTJ5PSX9YF2HQ1B
Click to expand...
Same! I can start it full of crusty dishes. Nobody beats the older ones. Nobody does!
 
Chetlaham said:
I 100% agree with you minus the complexity statement. The Power Clean was just to different than what the market and government wanted at face value. So production seized. 2013 was a dark year for me. You're correct that you can't get a residential standard tub anymore. A shame really, because standard tubs were easy to service and typically did not need to be pulled out of the cabinet. Which you mentioned.

The clean water wash system is compact and great for what it does but it will never hold a candle to the cleaning and food soil handling capabilities of a Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module.

Manual clean filter are IMO the worst, and for me the most disappointing is their use in commercial dish-machines. Champion got it partially right in that their machines used a vertical reversing pump and motor that behaved similarly to a Power Clean but still not to the same level of soil processing.


View attachment 319465


The above, but with a redesigned module and beefed up motor would be a dream. I've been contemplating on buying a low temperature dish machine to avoid the tall tub fiasco especially since modern dish machines be programed to start with an empty sump and drain said sump at the end of a cycle however the only thing holding me back are the manual clean strainer filters.


The simple push to start button would fulfill the BOL control requirements.
Click to expand...
Aren't most of the commercial machines w/the manual clean filters designed to manage pre-rinsed dishes vs only scraped dishes?

Would be interesting to see someone attempt the cake test with a few dishwashers, a power clean, clean water wash, global wash, and maybe a bosch for good measure. despite it being completely unrepresentative of normal use, it would be interesting to see the results :).
 

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