WP Direct Drive Clunk

[rinso]

Has anyone noticed that when you interrupt the spin on a TL direct drive WP/KM and then shut the lid again, the transmission re-engages with a very loud clank reminiscent of the old Norge solenoid brake days. It sometimes is almost as loud when the motor pauses after neutral drain mode and engages. My experience with my old WP 9800 was that when the motor first reversed to go into neutral drain mode, it would often clunk right thru neutral drain and spin a tub full of water, wasting any liquid fabric softener that may have been in the dispenser. Where's a wig-wag when you need it?!

 

[appnut]

Gne, mine has done the same thing for years. Im' glad I have a LK. And that's why if I have to settle for another shredmore, it will be one with timed dispensers for fabric softener. Because the transmission will weaken.

 

[rinso]

OK, I was just at my mom's for dinner tonight and she was washing in her 1 year old LK. Good thing for the timed dispensers, because the first pause clunked right thru neutral drain and spun the whole load, water and all. Then it paused once more, started up with a very loud bang, and continued. Now that's what I call mechanical refinement!

 

[whirlcool]

Fabric Softener Dispenser Activity

On my Whirlpool the rinse agent is released from the dispenser as it's filling up the tub for the first rinse. You can see it dripple down the vanes of the agitator.
What triggers this release anyway?

 

[rinso]

In some Whirlpool-built top loaders, normally, when the tub is spinning, the fabric softener is spun out of the dispenser and held on the inside of the agitator by centrifugal force. When the tub stops, the softener then dribbles down the inside of the agitator and into the rinse water. This is all very well and good unless the spin mechanism accidentally engages during what is suppossed to be neutral drain, or pump out. When this happens the softener spins out of the dispenser as normal, and is held in the inside of the agitator by centrifugal force. The motor than pauses again which would normally engage the spin mechanism, but at that point, it is already engaged. Softener then dribbles down the inside of the agitator into the tub and is spun and drained out, not getting a chance to be properly dispensed in the final spin. Not sure I explained it well, but hope you understand.

 

[DADoES]

Allen, the agitator-mounted dispenser works via centrifugal force. When the machine spins after wash, liquid softener is thrown out of the interior cup and held up inside of the dispenser by the centrifugal force of spin. When spin stops for rinse fill, the liquid literally falls down and dribbles out of the hole in the bottom of the dispenser unit, then out of the holes in the agitator's spiral section.

Stopping the first spin for ANY reason will cause the softener to release. If the lid is opened and then closed during the first spin to check the load, or there's a momentary power failure, the softener will dribble out and be wasted down the drain when spin resumes.

If your machine has neutral drain via the transmission (and I'm assuming it does), there's a momentary pause between drain and spin so the tranny mechanism can shift from neutral drain into spin. If the tranny gets "weak" as is being discussed up above, and your machine goes into spin/drain instead of neutral drain, then pauses and resumes spin after the 'programmed' drain period, the softener will be wasted. This can also cause staining of the clothes if they're splattered with concentrated softener.

Timed dispensers get around this drawback by holding the softener in a reservoir outside the tub and releasing it when a solenoid energizes at rinse fill.

 

[westytoploader]

Interesting...how did GE and Frigidaire dispensers get by even though they spin-drained?

 

[DADoES]

Spin-drain itself is of no consequence, long as the spin continues uninterrupted to the rinse fill. The problem comes if there's an interruption and resume of the spin before rinse fill begins.

 

[peterh770]

Great topic for the Deluxe forum...

 

[jasonl]

Right, this is a little too modern, but yeah, my old DD whirlpool used to clunk loud before it spun and rattled and shook and danced in the kitchen.

 

[whirlcool]

Ok, now I understand how this Fabric Dispenser works. There are four holes in the agitator top section just under the fabric dispenser cup, these holes are where you see the fabric softner dribbling out of as the washer is filling with water.
So this Fabric Dispenser is kind of like a mini cup. The liquid fabric softener stays in the center "cup" until centrifical force forces it "up and over" to a outside area where it stays until the centrifical force stops, and then it simply drains down via gravity to the hole in the bottom of the cup and then out the agitator holes onto the agitator where it mixes with the water.
Hmmm, I learned something new today! Thanks!

 

[Unimatic1140]

By popular demand this thread has been moved to the Deluxe f

Continue on...

 

[rinso]

Oooops, sorry about posting it to the wrong forum. That's what happens when one is recovering from a surgical procedure and is home dangerously mixing prescription pain killers with internet forums.

I still think the WP/KM top load direct drive mechanisms are clunky and unrefined. The good news about them is at least they improved on the only deficiency of the belt-drives, which was a anemic spin.

 

[rchris]

Welllll...and you got a shorter, faster agitator stroke. Mixed reviews on whether that's a good thing or not. /o:

 

[agiflow]

I noticed with the KM, that the washer will do a spin drain when set under a medium load.

 

[appnut]

My experience is if you run a final spin cycle on normal speed for 6 minutes and hten do a load, the machine will not spin drain but will do what it's supposed to do correctly. One of the many reasons I do several loads sequentially.

 

[rinso]

Just got back from mom's again. Lifted the lid on her LK during a spin, then shut it again after the tub had come to a full stop. Sure enough, the mechanism engages with a startlingly loud bang (not just a clunk) just like my old WP9800. I still think it is sort of unrefined, especially when the rest of the washer is so well designed.

 

[agiflow]

One thing going for WP is that they are the only american manufacturer to successfully crossover and offer very reliable machines.

 

[toggleswitch]

Why do they even bother with a neutral drain, the DD engineering does not seem to warrant it..

Only think I can think of is that it is less strain on the motor....