your thoughts on a car purchase

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washerboy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
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469
Location
Little Rock Arkansas
You all alwasys take care of me when it comes to major purchases..hope you can help me again!!! I think at some point I've told you all my teen age son..now 18 moved home about a year ago...he's wearing me out getting him to and from all his senior year activities, basket ball pratice, choir pratice..not to mention taking him and his girl friend on dates. I've been shopping for several months for a car for him..some of the stuff I can afford I would'nt even sit in let alone entertain the notion of buying. Over the weekend I found him a Subura XT6, 1988 101k miles, other than the AC not working and small pice of trim on the dash..it looks pertty good..body has a few dings from car doors and road rocks but nothing major. The guy is asking 200 over the bule book price..I'm willing to dicker with him on the price..but I dont know much about Subura..does anyone have any experience with this brand? My Nissian has 180k miles..looks pertty much like the day I brought her home 11 years ago and still going strong...anyone have any thoughts on Sub with over 100k miles?the car appears to have been taken care of..I know buying an used car is a crap shoot. I dont want to spend a whole lot on a car for the kid...he's still driving on a learners permit...I dont want to dump a buch of money into something for him total out in 6 months. I'm going to check with my insurance agent on the cost of liability insurance. Thanks in advance for all your thoughts and comments!!!!!!
 
I had a 1986 Subaru GL Hatchback. It was my first car ever purchased new. I loved it, I traded it in in 1993 with 160K miles on it. I can honestly say that I consider it by far the best car I have ever owned. I still see it around town, there is an older guy driving it. I can identify it from the "Starfleet Academy" and "Episcopal Church" stickers that I put on it are still there.

My my wife and I were dating she had a 1992 Subaru Loyale. We kept it till 1998 when we had our daughter and got a mini-van. She still mournes for that car.
 
Subarus...

Subarus tend to be as well made as most other Japanese cars but they do have their downsides. They have all wheel drive which is great if you live someplace with lots of snow. Unfortunately, they tend to get lower fuel economy because of it. They are very reliable, but when something does go wrong it can be more costly to repair than other brands. Subarus to tend to handle very well, but would that be necessary for a new driver?

My vote would be for a Honda of some sort. Hondas tend to be the best bet for fuel economy and reliability. An old Civic or Accord should provide many years of reliable service. My first choice would be a Honda Civic VX, a 2-door hatchback made from 1992-1995 and the Civic HX made from 1996-recently. The VX and HX models had INCREDIBLE fuel economy that could rival hybrids but did it with conventional engines and no hybrid technology. Therefore, the VX and HX are more reliable and MUCH cheaper to repair than hybrids.

A good rule of thumb when buying a used car is to anticipate spending about $1,000-$1,200 on maintenance and repairs in the 1st 6 months of ownership to get it into good shape that you can rely on (Hondas may be less). Try to get maintenance and repair history and see what components have been replaced. Also, and this is essential, see if the scheduled maintenance has been done and documented. If it hasn't, have your mechanic do the recently-passed maintenance and the upcoming maintenance too. Replacing timing belts is often essential around 100k miles on many cars.

Also, take the prospective car to YOUR mechanic and have them inspect the car and look for problems before you buy it. They might charge a few bucks for the service, but it can save you thousands in repairs. Such an inspection could also let you know what to expect in the foreseeable future, if you choose to buy the car.

I bought my 1987 Volvo 9 years ago with 115,000 miles and haven't looked back since. It has always been reliable, and although it has needed some repairs, it's repair and maintenance has been what I expected for an old, but well looked after, car.

After you own your "new" car for a few months, you should feel able to depend on it for everything. At first, however, keep it close to home just in case. Older used cars are nothing to be afraid of. 100,000 miles just isn't the big scary event it was 20 years ago. Just remember that although the car may be older and have higher mileage, continue to maintain it lovingly. Change the oil and filters and perform ALL of the maintenance as dictated by the owners manual. No owners manual? Ebay has tons! When you get the car, change all the fluids and the air filter. Maybe the fuel filters too.

Good luck,
Dave
 
A suggestion:

Call your car insurance person, and ask his or her advice.

Even if your son winds up paying for most/all of his car insurance, (and he should either have EXCELLENT grades, contribute money, or both), your insurance person might have some very useful information.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
I've known many people who've owned Subarus, and loved them. But they do tend to be people who need/want a good winter car.

The Honda idea is a good one. I had one that survived to 300K miles. Problem with Honda: they aren't the cheapest buy. Toyota is also reliable (and can be cheap if you buy one of the Toyotas sold under a GM name plate, like a Geo Prizm).

You might get your son involved. This could be frustrating battle of wills between you. But given that he'd be driving the car, it should at least be something he's comfortable with. I can remember back to driver's training. My driving ability and confidence were markedly better with one of the cars, which "fit" me better than either of the other cars they had. If I'd had that car every time, I'd have been done with road part of the course a heck of a lot sooner than I did finish with it.
 
I like Subarus a lot, but they might be hard to find parts/service for in AR. Perhaps a used Toyota in good shape would be a better choice? And a Camry might keep down his hot-rodding tendencies, if any.

I'd also check out Consumer Reports' car reviews/ratings. They are not so good on washers/dryers, but with cars they seem to have the basic stuff dialed in, as long as you're looking for a family sedan.

I'd recommend Toyota and Honda over Mitsubishi or the other lesser Korean brands. If there is good service for Subarus in your area then it might be a good choice. The XT6 isn't their swoopy sports car, is it?
 
I purchased mine in Little Rock, Arkansas. Most foreign cars places would work on it, and Auto Zone is really good about stocking parts.
 
my advice.....

skip the Subaru, they're good cars but a lot of people won't work on them and parts can at times be an issue. I think someone above suggested Toyota, and I would very much second that, any mechanic can work on them and parts are very availabe for Toyo's.

Personally, I would get a used Ford Taurus. You can get a fairly late model one for not much money, they're safe to drive, insurance is low, parts are very available, and all mechanics can work on them. No, they're not of the quality of a Toyota, but they're a heck of a lot cheaper, you'll get a lower milage car and later year model, and spend less too.
Other good choices used are GM full-sized cars (Boneville, LeSabre, Impala, etc.). I don't buy new GM or Ford cars, but they're a heck of a deal used because they depreciate so much.

My 2-cents worth.
 
Maybe not the XT6 . . .

As I recall this was the top of the line Suburu sold in the US, had pretty much every electronic gimzo as standard, but didn't sell too well due to being kind of pricey for a Suburu. I've meddled around with a lot of old cars throughout my lifetime, and although I like loaded TOL cars as much as everyone else it's true that as they age the fancy stuff can be a problem. Firstly, there is just more of it to go wrong, and secondly, silly little parts not required to actually make the car run often become unavailable. I wouldn't be surprised if the AC is dead because it is part of a sophisticated climate control system and a no longer availble module has quit, or it's just too complex to troubleshoot. I've heard some bad things about Suburu's air suspension, and I believe some XT6s had this.

For a new driver, I think it's hard to beat a fairly basic front wheel drive sedan with a reasonable but not overly powerful engine. Most all the middle range Japanese stuff is reliable, but you may pay a premium for Civics, Accords, Camrys, and Corollas. Nissans and Mazdas are less prized but still good. As noted by others, don't overlook Ford and GM either although I'd be careful to not get the first model year of a new platform. Stay far away from Chrysler products - even if you get a good one the parts availability for a car more than five years old is appalling. No VWs either - parts availability is very good on these but you're likely to need lots of parts!

To break one of my own recommendations - the one regarding front wheel drive - you might check out four and six cylinder Mustangs. They're plentiful, simple, easy to fix, and something your son would probably be happier with than a Taurus.

Also, since you're looking at older cars one huge potential issue is that of smog checks. Make sure you know what the cutoff year is where you live and if possible buy a car old enough not to need smogging. I'm not advocating drving a gross polluter, but lots of cars fail smog check for tiny items (like an airflow sensor that is a little bit off - I've been there), and it costs hundreds to fix them. Here in CA the cutoff is '75, making it pretty hard to buy a good cheap car that doesn't need smogging, but in many states the cutoff is after 20 years.
 
Don't Know Why....

....Dave didn't mention a Volvo 240 or 740 sedan as a possibility. Very strong and safe, and since the engine is a large four-cylinder, your son won't be breaking any speed records. 240s are getting a little collectible and therefore holding their value, but 740s are just used cars, and cheap.

The only thing is to make certain that any 740 you look at is not a turbo. Not only can they be troublesome and expensive to work on (depending on previous owner's maintenance and driving style), they're very fast, a wolf in sheep's clothing. Do not put a kid in a Volvo turbo, period. It's easy to tell a turbo from a non-turbo in pictures. A non-turbo's front grille will be all vertical bars. A turbo has both vertical and horizontal bars, in an egg-crate pattern. There's also supposed to be a turbo badge on the deck lid or tailgate, but they're often missing.

240 turbos are fairly rare; you're not likely to stumble on one. But the option was very popular on 740s, so just know what you're looking at. The non-turbo car is a safe, reliable, slow (not unsafe slow, just parentally-reassuring slow) automobile.
 
I disagree what was said about turbocharged Volvos. If is is the four cylinder redblock engine, is is super reliable. My dad has a '95 Volvo 940 turbo wagon, and it is a great car.
 
Chris:

I'm only saying that the reliability of a turbo depends on maintenance and the driver's habits, okay? Well-maintained and properly driven (especially letting 'em idle a bit before shutting the car off), they're just fine. But since used cars are such pigs in pokes, a turbo is kind of a dicey bet unless you know the owner or have some very thorough service records to go by.

And I would definitely not buy one as a kid's car, period. Too much acceleration. Those were my points, not that Volvo builds anything other than a great car. I own one.
 
Turbos . . .

Turbos can be kind of unpredictable. I had a Saab 900 Turbo from the late '80s, a nice car bought from the original owner. It was well maintained, and I always changed the oil at proper intervals and used synthetic oil. The turbo itself never gave any trouble at all, although I had to replace a special-order grommet in the intake manifold when it became old and soft and blew out under accereration.

In 2002 the Saab was getting kind of old (165k miles) so I bought a new VW turbo diesel. Diesels have cooler exhausts than gas engines and therfore the turbos generally last longer. The car was maintained by the book, only expensive Mobil Delvac-1 synthetic diesel oil was used, but at 64,000 miles that turbo blew so hard the impeller went through the casing. It also shoved enough shrapnel through the intercooler to get sucked into the engine and ruin it. Thank goodness the warranty ran until 70,000 miles. As it was VW had the car for seven weeks and the repair cost they ate was nearly $9000 - even the muffler and catalytic converter were ruined due to oil going out the exhaust. I guess I just had bad luck and got a bad turbo, but the problem is you don't know until you hear the bang. Turbos also have lots of control devices, like vacuum modules to operate wastegates or variable vanes, solenoids to switch vacuum to those devices, etc. A bad vacuum line can lead to all sorts of problems, and while the vacuum tubing is cheap the labor to find the problem is not.

I still like turbos, but if my main priority was cheap, easy to fix tranportation then I'd avoid them.
 
Have you asked your son what kind of car he wants (given the budget you're working with)?
 
Volvos & Turbos.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE old Volvos. 240s tend to be built better than 740s, especially the interiors. I just don't recommend rear wheel drive Volvos for people who would view it as "the car" as opposed to "my dear Volvo." I love Volvos and if treated well, they will treat you well, BUT they do age! Hondas are much more forgiving of abuse and neglect.

Volvos will run forever, but they do require proper care and feeding. I usually try to put a little over $1,000.00 a year into my 21 year old 240. I use only the best parts and when things fail, I rebuild entire systems rather than just replace parts. When I needed some suspension work 2 years ago I had my suspension rebuilt (all of it). New shocks, struts, bushings, the works, even a new set of tires. Now that it's back to factory specs, the handling is AMAZING! It can't corner quite like my Saab but it is rock-solid at 80 mph+ and it will take a curvy roller coaster road with confidence, I just can't be a stupid driver and take unnecessary risks.

Non turbo old Volvo 4 cylinder engines are darn near bullet proof. They idle slowly (mine is 750 rpm) and have respectable low end torque, but they really have no horsepower. My 240 weighs about 2 tons and is pushed along by an engine rated at 114 horsepower (1 less than the base-model Mini Cooper), and that's at a rev range I dare not tread unless absolutely necessary. I have been run off the road more times than I can count while trying to accelerate and merge into traffic on highways with too-short on-ramps. I just can't compete with new cars in the power department. Old Volvos are extremely safe, even by contemporary standards, but I would be reluctant to turn a new driver loose in one without some GOOD experience in merging. On the up side, you can floor a Volvo and be beaten off the line by minivans!

I have a 2002 Saab 9-3 as my spare car and I can tell you to AVOID SAABS LIKE THE PLAGUE! Ever since GM bought them out, quality has gone down the toilet! I spend less money and time fixng my Volvo than I do my Saab, and the Volvo is 15 years older with about 70,000 more miles. Last year my Saab had over $5,000.00 worth of work done on warranty!

Turbos are just not for the uninformed and they absolutely require impeccable maintenance. My Saab is a Turbo (the one thing on the car that hasn't broken) and it allows me to have more power than a person ever should and push 40 miles per gallon all in the same car (just not at the same time).

I have driven a non-intercooled 240 Turbo sedan and I loved it! We later calculated that I was going 126 miles per hour (I won't do that again). I want to eventually restore an intercooled 1985 240 Turbo station wagen. With that I would have one heck of a fun rocket-propelled grocery getter. (Yes, I just said that driving an unmodified Volvo 240 is fun).

Just some rambling thoughts,
Dave
 
My thoughts...

#1 Make your SON part of the process,the experience. This is the MOST IMPORTANT PART. Have HIM do some research on his own like you are doing. Show him how to check consumer reports,kelly blue book,Car Max,internet,Crash test. Have him test drive some cars. Show him how to kick the tires and look for oil leaks. Teach him about scams,DVM,Insurance. There are some great Father/Son oppertunities here you don't want to pass up and can be a great experience for both of you.

#2 11 year old Nissan with 180,000 miles on it with all known repair history sounds like a PERFECT car for him. Has Dad considered buying a new car and handing down the old??

#3 When purchasing a used veh I would be looking at the maintence history. Does the seller have maintenance records he can show you. Maintenance is EVERYTHING no matter what kind of car. Has it every been wrecked?

#4 Honda's are a bunch of hype. I have 5 family members who have them and I can write pages and pages of problems with
them. I personally would by a Toyota,Mitsubishi,Subaru,Nissan any day over a Honda.

#5 Get you son a AAA membership. Worth every penny and will give you some piece of mind. This is the age group that is good for locking themselves out of the car,leaving the lights on,flat tire (no spare)at 2:00 a.m. He can also use it with anyone he is with.

#6 Have fun with it. See which one of you can pick out the best used car and the best junker for some laughs and good memories.

Jim
 
Best bet--NEVER purchase a car for a first time driver owner-have HIM actually pay for and go thru the purchase of the vehicle with you with him.That way he can appreciate the value of the car.when I was growing up to car buying age-my Dad specifically told US that he WASN'T going to pay for our first cars.He would help in choosing the vehicle and repairing it if need be.
 
Very important- Make sure ALL of the hoses on any car you buy are less than 10 years old. If you have to, replace them all., My dad's 940 warped a head from overheating when a hose failed and slowly let all of the coolant out.
 

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