AI in laundry...

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"Stupid" Miele

I have been pleasantly surprised that my new Miele washing machine does not even try to be smarter than me: apart from the "Automatic Plus" programme, there is no load detection, programme adaptation, or anything like that, just an additional rinse in case of excessive foam.

Each programme is executed each time exactly the same way.

I have to admit that I am very pleased
 
They do. Barely so though. On Cottons 60 or higher they don't, on anything lower they can cut of a bit, like 10min or so.

Really depends on what options you use etc.
But they can.
A lot isn't in the main wash though. They mainwash without options is about 90-100min regardless. More in spins, rinses etc.
 
Oh joy, another rant thread...

My take on it. The "AI" is pure marketing. all this is is programming that dynamically adapts wash time & other stuff to the programmed cycle and sensed clothing weight/type. I doubt it is much different than the earlier washers LG has made with the auto-sensing function, though given I haven't used one it's possible they have added some functionality to it to give the "AI" some meaning. I am surprised we haven't seen the same marketing to refer to dishwashers with turbidity sensors, it seems that the ability for them to "see" dirt in the water would render some sort of AI marketing but I haven't seen any yet. Heck, turbidity sensors have been around for decades now, I believe the first were on some whirlpool powerclean models though its possible other manufacturers introduced them first. I know that whirlpool also messed around with some sort of pressure based sensing on the point voyager, but I know our old kitchenaid point voyager still had what appeared to be a turbidity sensor. And of course, the new kitchenaid we have does too. The new BOL frigidaire at the house I rent over in my college town still lacks one, but being BOL that doesn't surprise me. If anything at all, this "AI" is no more intelligent than the "smart" features that have been around for a decade or more at this point.
 
It seems as though it’s getting to the point where everything is becoming a gimmick, putting technology in stuff just for the sake of putting it in and nothing else.

May be apart of the Gen Z demographic, but I honestly don’t find some tech useful these days. People can tout on how electronic controls offer “flexibility”, but for example, can’t do a gentle wash action with fast spin on modern machines. As soon as the cycle is done, you’ll have to run it through another spin and may take time to redistribute the load before it enters into spin to make sure everything is properly balanced. With my Maytag A806? Can do a gentle wash with fast spin easily without having start things over so to speak.

You can only push technology so far to the point you end up with something that’s a piece of junk.
 
to maytag85

My sentaments exactly! Today's machines you need to do a normal wash with fast spin. If I want a normal wash and fast spin, my Speed Queen Commercial allows me to do that. Our generation is so lazy when it comes to laundry. All they care about is just cramming everything into a single heap of laundry. And yet they wonder why they have filthy laundry clothes.
How will AI EVER detect color or soil?
 
color or soil detection is pretty easy? We've had soil figured out on the dishwashing side of things for the better part of 2 decades now (turbidity sensors). color sensing of course I dont believe they've even attempted, but honestly I find separating stuff by color doesn't matter all that much, at least with modern fabrics + detergents. Gone are the days of bleeding dyes, minus some circumstances.
GE, I struggle to comprehend your ranting sometimes. Normal wash with fast spin is normal? as far as I understand? no one is taking that away... and I assure you, my clothes get plenty clean with my modern "lazy" washing habits that might make some members shrivel haha...
 
Soil detection in a washer is bit more complicated due to one main factor - detergent.
Powdered detergent always contains some amount of insoluble material - usually zeolite as water softner. If you manually dose that, it will immediately show up as heavy soil on optical sensing.

Thus most soil sensing on washers relies on automatic liquid detergent dosing - and even then it's significantly less accurate, mainly because the amount of soil in laundry is just so much less usually than on dishes.
You might have the amount of soil by weight on one plate that might be in an entire wash load.

I am somewhat surprised though nobody has made a camera based sensing system on washers yet.
We have ovens now that can recognise what food you put in and how dark it is through a camera.
Making the washer actually "see" how much laundry there is as a percentage of drum volume plus color detection combined with weight and water absorption sensing should really easily allow one to narrow down what was loaded.

But a lot of smart technology - like rinse optimization by checking how heavy the laundry is after an interim spin compared to before the cycle - have been successfully done before, were cheap measures and worked brilliantly - yet have been thrown out anyway.
 
We`ve had turbidity sensors in dishwashers for more than 20 years at least and they still don`t work reliable in lots of cases.

A single baked on casserole dish in an otherwise very lightly soiled load? It won`t come clean because there`s not enough turbidity to trigger a heavy soil cycle.

Or on the other side I once used an Eco detergent which apparently left a chalky residue on the sensor so I was stuck on the heaviest automatic cycle for weeks until I descaled the DW.
Also an ageing scratched or etched plastic or glass sensor cover may have a similar outcome in that it is reading more turbidity than there actually is. But Hey we need more planed obsolescence anyway to keep our economies growing, and to be fair most of the time it works and saves valuable resources for those who can`t or don`t want to pick an adequate cycle for themselves.

So it`s no big deal for me as long as there are still enough other cycles to chose from that don`t use a "smart" sensor of any kind, but a washer or DW that wouldn`t give you at least the option to pick the correct cycle yourself is not a pleasant thought, is it?
 
And don`t get me started on flow through meters in appliances.
Considering that at least here in my area the water meters (in your home) have to be changed after 6 years of service because they might become unreliable, what`s the point of having one in a washer that might give false readings depending on water quality after only a short period of use and turn a large appliance into trash.

Or what about weight detection in a washer? Certainly nice to have it as long as it works correctly but the springs and dampers of a washer will wear out sooner than later. In a simple no frills washer no big deal for a long time but as soon as it interferes with cycle programming it will be a problem. Thank God I can still bypass the cycle to a full load if the old Miele decides to act up.
Progress is basically a good thing, couldn`t imagine to go back to a low spin speed, a resistant heat dryer or a 100% flood proof washer or dishwasher. But some developments just won`t do it for me.
 
white underwear hot wash detergent bleach normal speed

color medium or warm normal speed biz axion or snowy

lingerie hot wash bleach delicate cycle

PP hot or medium or warm whites use beach

I've seen or been doing laundry since 1963

Aint rocket science
 
normal/fast

Normal wash and fast spin which is typically the most intense option combination is reasonable for cotton/linen like towels, sheets, jeans, t-shirts, etc. Some models have that spin speed combination for a heavy duty cycle. Speed Queen is an example.
 
AI

My Kenmore/LG does it to an extent. It will reduce tumble speed, prolong tumbles, and alter spin speed based on load size after the initial sensing. The older machines just adjusted wash and rinse time, as well as add more time for balancing. The program for a large/full load is actually great for Normal, but is not my favorite for a smaller load because of the issues above. Permanent Press loads come out wrinkled on Normal and Whites because of the increased slow and long tumbles, though are especially bad with TurboWash on. Plus, it will spin significantly faster with a smaller load versus a large load. That makes no sense to me other than to save the bearings. Though, if I select Extra High spin speed, I selected it for a reason and want that speed. Speed will range anywhere from 1011-1258 rpm on Normal, Whites, Heavy Duty, and Sanitize. The Duet always spun at the selected speed. That I do miss.
The “AI” on LG TurboWash machines I swear is for EPA and EnergyStar guidelines. Originally the “AI” ran on Normal cycle with warm water selected. I’m gonna imagine that if an 8 pound load is washed, that the temperature is reduced, spin increased.
 
I wish Speed Queen would make a timer based home model. If everyone was like me all washers, all dryers, all dishwashers, all refrigerators, all stoves, and most microwaves would have EM controls. EM controls would have stopped selling long ago. This picture is a ne plus ultra microcosm of everything wrong:

 

 

FYtpjFY.jpeg


 
 
My Miele adjusts time and water

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">My Miele washer is about 4 years old and it does adjust time because I will get a text telling me that is has adjusted time for that load.  I don't really know if it does it by weight or exactly how it does it but I know it does.  I believe it is supposed to adjust the amount of water as well but I don't have any proof of that.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">As far as AI in the laundry (or anywhere in the house actually), I appreciate the suggestion of how a certain load should be programmed but often I overwrite the suggestion and set it as I wish.  If I don't know how a particular item should be washed I go with he programmed cycle.  What I do know is this is the best cleaning washer I have ever owned.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I was in IT for 40 years and I am fascinated by all the new technology that's coming out.  It doesn't mean I want all of it at my fingertips but I am certainly not going look down on someone who does.  If you don't want to press the buttons then don't buy a machine that has them.  There problem solved.</span>
 
SHAME

Shame!!! Shame on these companies putting AI in electronic appliances and trying to sell more by seeing what sticks in the market!
I’m the only one who matters and my single purchase should be enough to sustain a multi-billion dollar corporation!
/s
 
shame!

Shame! Shame on Whirlpool for jumping on the AI bandwagon! Shame on GE too! Well folks, 2025 will be full of AI laundry and things will break down.
What happened to plain old common sense? I'm so glad I use Speed Queen Laundry. I decide, not the machines.
 

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