An idea for the Super Unimatic machine

[batterymaker]

Just saw the thread in the archives section. And I'm not sure if I posted this in the right section--technically it uses old parts, but the computer-controlled interface could put it in the modern category.

I was just thinking--wouldn't it be great to add a touch-screen interface and mount it on top of the washer, a la Frigidaire control tower?

I mean, we can all dream, right?

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Bill, the Super Unimatic can fit in any of the three forums as it has vintage and modern parts and can be off topic all at the same time.

I'm not sure about the touch screen idea, actually I have had many people ask me about doing just that. I prefer a mouse and keyboard interface because it allows make to make instantaneous changes at any time. Sometimes I get an idea in my head about what I want the washer to do next in the middle of the cycle. All I have to do is click on Pause, toggle over to the program code, make some quick programming adjustments and save. Then I press continue and I can immediately see what I was thinking happen before my eyes. I don't think I could make a touch screen quite so versatile. One of the best things about the Super Unimatic is the fact that I can experiment to my hearts content.

One day I’m going to get my hands on one of those modern front load washers such as a Duet and completely “Super Unimaticize” it. Watch out you moder front loader afficinados (you know who you are) 'cause here I come LOL.

Let’s see my dream modern front loader:

One-way tumbling
Recirculation with Spray
1200rpm spin between the wash and each rinse, and if the load is balanced from the start going from 0 to 1200 in 20 seconds without any schlepping around,
Suds half way up the window, or the washer shuts down and buzzes, etc, etc, etc.

Now I think this thread is ready for the Modern Forum.

 

[tlee618]

Robert that is one machine I can't wait to see!! When you have that done it just might be time to start production because it sounds perfect!!!

 

[bundtboy]

computer controlled He3t

I'll be first in line to buy that control design from you.

I have an He3t and I absolutely cannot stand to be there watching it operate, as I feel completely out of control and powerless to the machine.

In the future, I'd like to let that machine know who's boss.

It always works, and works well, but rarely comes in on it's time estimate correctly, and waiting for the thing to spin is like waiting for water to boil.

A custom and changeable cycle control sytem would be a dream come true.

B

 

[Unimatic1140]

I'll be first in line to buy that control design from you.

You'll be the first to get it then Bob. With a modern machine like that most of the sensors I need are already built into the machine, unlike the Unimatic where I needed to figure out ways of adding sensors that talk back to the computer. So it could just be a matter of making the interface in a Rubbermaid container, writing the software and gathering some dirty clothes.

 

[liberator1509]

Robert - do you do requests?

Hi Robert

The custom front loader sounds good, but a super efficient top loader that meets EU specs might be popular this side of the Atlantic. So if you could take a Bravos/Oasis/Cabrio or something similar (like one of the LG impeller models) and make it do the following, you might have some serious customers over here:

1) Cold fill, with internal heater - temps up to 95C
2) Water usuage of less than 10 litres per kg
3) Fast wash cycles (under an hour...)
4) Fast spin - 1400 or higher
5) A-grade performance

Impossible? I guess I'm dreaming....but I'd love a super euro-bravos!!!!

David

 

[decodriveboy]

Oh Robert! when you finally crack the code to a modern FL the way that kid cracked the iPhone, you'' be even bigger a hero to me! *swoons*

 

[Unimatic1140]

Robert - do you do requests?
Hi David, I think I really want to try to "monster-ize" a modern front loader as my next major custom undertaking. Maybe next year.

Patrick I don't think "cracking" a modern front loader will be that difficult. It should be easy to control a DC motor via a computer, but I do need to study up on the basics of how to program and build interfaces for the USB port of a computer. That will probably be the biggest challenge.

 

[nurdlinger]

One-way tumbling

Why is this a design goal? I thought from reading posts here that always tumbling in the same direction caused more tangling and "roping" of the load.

As far as USB interfacing, you can use a corollary of the old hot-rodder maxim: "Nothing beats cubic money". You can buy it.

 

[frontaloadotmy]

One way tumbling

Tom ,
I think most of us would concurr ; two way front loaders
are as undesirable as a WCI Frigidaire Top Loader.
Detangling builds strong character!!!!

 

[Unimatic1140]

One-way tumbling Why is this a design goal?

Hi Tom, because it's more fun that way. I have never ever have taken out anything that has even been tangled out of a Bendix and they only tumble one way. So unless there is a big difference in the cylinder design of a modern front loader that makes things tangle this should work fine. But only by experimenting will we find out, but I'm skeptical that this is necessary at all.

I'm going to move this thread to the modern forum so we can continue to discuss a dream modern front loader. I would be interested in hearing what you guys would think would be fun to do in a monsterized modern fl.

 

[decodriveboy]

OK here's my idea for a dream FL:

-chrome retro lettering and accents
-aqua, cotton-candy pink, seafoam green, and sunshine yellow color schemes
-a sturdy door with iron or steel hinges, with a huge convex window and locking handle like a commercial washer
-knobs and dials
-water level control (economy, low, medium, high--as in at least 1/2way up the window)
-adjustable spin and tumble speeds
-internal water heater
-a high speed spin between EVERY drain, with no balance adjustments
-a xylophone signal when the cycle is done like the old Bendix dryers
-lighted buttons in different colors

have to think of more now..... hehe

 

[Unimatic1140]

I like your ideas patrick, of all of them these are the ones that would be "relatively" easy to do with a custom built computer interface:

-water level control (economy, low, medium, high--as in at least 1/2way up the window)
-adjustable spin and tumble speeds
-internal water heater
-a high speed spin between EVERY drain, with no balance adjustments
-a xylophone signal when the cycle is done like the old Bendix dryers

So what else?

 

[frontaloadotmy]

If this hasn't been listed

Some serious basket illumination ; I suppose this would
require major "hardware" adaptation.

Also, when it goes into limited production for AW.Oites
it must have a beautiful white porcelain enamel basket!!!

 

[washerfanatic]

How about No Auto Temp Control except for Cold Washes? You can't wash and rinse anything in any hotter temp than tepid or BARELY warm water.

 

[gizmo]

My wish list is a bit different:

-two way tumbling or single, selectable
-variable water level
-purge hot water line into an internal tank, to be saved for rinse water, automatically dispensed
-no heater element, or one that can be switched off
-temperature controlled fill
-temperature controlled top-up
-variable number of rinses
-spins between every rinse, spin speeds between rinses individually selectable
-auto detects when enough rinsing is done
- final spin speed increases gradually, but doesn't waste time at each level
- adjustable time for every increment
- stop and re-tumble halfway through final spin

Explanations:
two way tumble - I have used a single tumble machine, Hoover Keymatic and it was a bad tangler. I believe that if a single tumble machine is lightly loaded it will still be OK but changing that machine to reverse tumbling means it can be loaded up more without tangling becoming a problem. You get better use of the electricity and water. If your machine has selectable single or reversable tumbling, you can do your own experiments to prove one way or the other!

purge hot water line - run through cold water in the hot water line so that wash water is hot enough to not need a heater, but don't waste the water, save it in an internal tank to be used for the first rinse.

temp controlled fill - but give the computer the ability to continue washing if the water isn't coming through hot enough - better a cooler wash that give up! OK so I selected 50 degrees, if the water isn't that hot, wash anyway! (I hate it when a machine gives up and beeps for help!)

Temperature controlled top up - maybe- fill to a lower level, wash a while, then top up with hotter water to a higher level for the rest of the wash.

-Spin speeds between rinses adjustable - try to maximise spin speeds, but you might have to use slower spins between early rinses to stop suds whipping up.

- Auto detect when rinsing is enough - perhaps by shining a light through a section of glass tube in the drain pipe, and a detector on the other side which measures the intensity of the light beam. When the water is cloudy it impedes the light, as water clears the light shines through brighter. You could select a "clarity level" for rinsing.

-Slowly increase final spin speed - by going up in increments, the machine can pump out a surge of water, when there is little more flowing out, it steps up to a higher speed and wrings out more water. Stops suds whipping up, reduces strain on the motor.


More later, I am being nagged.

Chris.

 

[decodriveboy]

More.

Definitely an illuminated basket....that was a very good suggestion.

Adjustable wash, rinse, and spin speed times.

Lifetime quality--instead of lousy components designed to have minimal life expectancy like today's washers.

 

[Unimatic1140]

After speaking to Jeff Lefever last night I now know that these modern front loaders are not using DC motors anymore, they are using 3-Phase AC Washing Machine motors. They control the torque and speed by varying both the voltage and frequency to the motor. Very Interesting! This will be very fascinating to learn how they control these motors. I haven't the foggiest idea, but Jeff did know that the washing machine's central computer communicates with its motor control board via only two wires. Hmmmmmm.

 

[gizmo]

Hi Robert

Some machines DO use a DC motor. Different brand do it different ways, I can think of 5 motor technologies used by different front loaders.

1. Universal (brush) motor running on AC: The most common. The motor is designed for the max spin speed, all lower speeds are achieved by pulsing the motor on and off with an electronic control. Reasonably cheap but quite inefficient. Motors are often very noisy on spin.

2. Induction motor, single phase: these are common on Italian machines and copies of them. I think Merloni machines (under various brands)still use them. They have two windings, usually 2 pole for spin and 16 pole for wash. They have a maximum difference between speeds of about 8:1, so a wash speed of 60 rpm gives a spin speed of 480rpm. Newer machines use an electronic controller to allow a greater diference, but 1200 rpm is about the max you can get.

3. True DC motor - just like a bigger version of the motor in a cordless drill. Philips pioneered this technology in Europe in the 80s, I believe Miele used it too. I'm not sure if anyone still does. The motors are light weight, very efficient and reliable, though they do need brushes replaced every few years. Philips used absolutely horrible circuitry to drive them, so the machines were very inefficient but the motors themselves are very efficient. I have one of these machines and intend one day to design a switchmode power supply/motor controller module but that day is a long way off.

4. Polyphase AC motor: These were used in the Fisher and Paykel Gentle Annie top loader, their first machine of their own design. The motor was sourced from the USA. I believe Neptune FLs use these motors too.(?) They are reliable and quiet, and energy efficient. The circuitry to drive them is complicated, the three phases needs sequential and co-ordinated drive, plus a feedback circuit so that the microcontroller knows what speed the motor is turning and what direction.

5. The "Direct Drive" used in some FL's which is a copy of F&P's smart drive, works similar to the polyphase but the motor is a flat disc attached direct to the drum shaft. Very efficient, if you can crack the programming required to drive it and can source the drum and motor assembly, this would be the ultimate.

Hope this is some help to you, Robert.

Chris.