Arm&hammer powder detergent, is really that bad
Yes, it tis. Put the box down and step away from the shelf.
Yes, it tis. Put the box down and step away from the shelf.
Arm&hammer powder detergent, is really that bad?
- Thread starter kenmoreguy89
- Start date
Help Support :
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Thank you all again for commenting.
"YES there is a reason it is so CHEAP."
Well but actually from the prices I've seen on line it does not look that "cheap" well of course it's cheaper than Tide but I could tell you alot of other brands which actually are cheaper or same cost and works fine.
So it is not that obvious at least for me.
"YES there is a reason it is so CHEAP."
Well but actually from the prices I've seen on line it does not look that "cheap" well of course it's cheaper than Tide but I could tell you alot of other brands which actually are cheaper or same cost and works fine.
So it is not that obvious at least for me.
As You Can See From The Attached MSDS
Arm & Hammer powdered laundry detergent at least as of 2007 was 70% to 85% sodium carbonate (washing soda). The rest is a small amount of phosphates (STPP), enzymes, clay, surfactants, fragrance, and so forth.
You might as well purchase a box of Sal or washing soda and use that for your laundry along with soap as it's pretty much the same thing.
Arm & Hammer powdered laundry detergent at least as of 2007 was 70% to 85% sodium carbonate (washing soda). The rest is a small amount of phosphates (STPP), enzymes, clay, surfactants, fragrance, and so forth.
You might as well purchase a box of Sal or washing soda and use that for your laundry along with soap as it's pretty much the same thing.
Loading…
www.ahprofessional.com
You can find links to other Arm & Hammer products by following the link below.
It does seem that all powdered versions of their laundry detergents contain the same large amounts of washing soda as noted above.
Ever since it came upon the laundry/cleaning scene (replacing the ash and plant matter what was soaked to release natural carbonates), sodium carbonate in most forms has been known to be harsh on pretty much everything it touches. Fabrics, human skin, etc.... It is the main reason for "wash day red hands" that women and anyone else suffered from after prolonged exposure to hot soda and soap laden water used for cleaning everything from dishes to laundry historically.
It does seem that all powdered versions of their laundry detergents contain the same large amounts of washing soda as noted above.
Ever since it came upon the laundry/cleaning scene (replacing the ash and plant matter what was soaked to release natural carbonates), sodium carbonate in most forms has been known to be harsh on pretty much everything it touches. Fabrics, human skin, etc.... It is the main reason for "wash day red hands" that women and anyone else suffered from after prolonged exposure to hot soda and soap laden water used for cleaning everything from dishes to laundry historically.
Loading…
www.ahprofessional.com
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Thank you laundress for the link...well I imagined that it had that much washing soda in it, who knows maybe now they put 90%! I will stay away from that "detergent" for sure!
Tip
Anytime you pick up a carton or packet of powdered laundry detergent and it feels heavy and or dense, that most certainly means the stuff is loaded with washing soda. To prove this when at the shops lift up a box of washing soda. For the size of box the stuff is quite heavy.
Anytime you pick up a carton or packet of powdered laundry detergent and it feels heavy and or dense, that most certainly means the stuff is loaded with washing soda. To prove this when at the shops lift up a box of washing soda. For the size of box the stuff is quite heavy.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
I actually get red hands even if I wash with just a soap bar in hot water......then human skin is different from fabrics I don't think soda is harsh to fabrics, at least for what Laundress means for harshness....it of course produce alot of deposit in hard waters that stick into clothes if you put too much of it....
Found a chart online saying that soduim carbonate is not corrosive but mild irritant to human skin, never heard of it being harsh on clothes, irritate skin a little if time in solution is long, I've experienced this by doing dishes with it, no more than some other chemical surfactans though, it is just that for laundry you take hands more time in the solution and skin reacts differently and absorb elements in it....and of course a detergent or washing soda isn't what I'd call Neutrogena....LOL
I think it is safe to use on clothes in right concentrations as it won't leave white coating or residues, and to be at at least a moderate "complete" cleaner have to be combined with other ingredients just like even only soap.
For istance I never expected to get the results I'd have with Tide or a normal laundry detergent but is okay for lightly soiled.......
Washing soda is always in my home detergent closet as for soap bars as it is very versatile when you run out of detergents....
Soda is well known to cut grease,it also have some "bleaching" properties....
That is why Alluminum if gets in contact with a sodiukm carbonate solutuion oxidate, washing soda is evil for aluminum......
I don't think it is harsh on fibers......[this post was last edited: 8/22/2012-20:46]
Found a chart online saying that soduim carbonate is not corrosive but mild irritant to human skin, never heard of it being harsh on clothes, irritate skin a little if time in solution is long, I've experienced this by doing dishes with it, no more than some other chemical surfactans though, it is just that for laundry you take hands more time in the solution and skin reacts differently and absorb elements in it....and of course a detergent or washing soda isn't what I'd call Neutrogena....LOL
I think it is safe to use on clothes in right concentrations as it won't leave white coating or residues, and to be at at least a moderate "complete" cleaner have to be combined with other ingredients just like even only soap.
For istance I never expected to get the results I'd have with Tide or a normal laundry detergent but is okay for lightly soiled.......
Washing soda is always in my home detergent closet as for soap bars as it is very versatile when you run out of detergents....
Soda is well known to cut grease,it also have some "bleaching" properties....
That is why Alluminum if gets in contact with a sodiukm carbonate solutuion oxidate, washing soda is evil for aluminum......
I don't think it is harsh on fibers......[this post was last edited: 8/22/2012-20:46]
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Soda is way more heavy than soap and surfactans, that is also why dishwasher powders use to weight so much if compared to laundry powders, actually with that much soda in the Arm&hammer they could even sell it even for dishwashers if they added anti foam agents! LOL I think it have more soda than a dishwasher powder!
Let's check....
The finish powder bottle I've right here says Sodyum Carbonate 55-65%, then surfactans enzymes and percarbonate etc.......Arm&Hammer have 85%!!!! Oh crazy world!
Let's check....
The finish powder bottle I've right here says Sodyum Carbonate 55-65%, then surfactans enzymes and percarbonate etc.......Arm&Hammer have 85%!!!! Oh crazy world!
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Sodium Carbonate
Like most alkaline substances combines with fats and oils to make soaps. This chemical reacation has been taken advantage of for ages when using soda ash or washing soda to clean dishes or greasy/oily soils.
Automatic dishwashing detergents in powder form are usually very alkaline loaded with washing soda and other caustic chemicals. These did the heavy lifting of breaking down soil on dishes in the absence of today's modern enzymes and surfactants. Still for all that most DW powdered and tablets contain soda, just usually much less per dose than historically. One small Finish tablet will clean as well as two full dw cups of old.
Like most alkaline substances combines with fats and oils to make soaps. This chemical reacation has been taken advantage of for ages when using soda ash or washing soda to clean dishes or greasy/oily soils.
Automatic dishwashing detergents in powder form are usually very alkaline loaded with washing soda and other caustic chemicals. These did the heavy lifting of breaking down soil on dishes in the absence of today's modern enzymes and surfactants. Still for all that most DW powdered and tablets contain soda, just usually much less per dose than historically. One small Finish tablet will clean as well as two full dw cups of old.
Phosphates In Laundry detergents
Have not been in laundry detergents in the US in at least 15 years, I do not think that A&H had them in 2007 or even 1977.
Have not been in laundry detergents in the US in at least 15 years, I do not think that A&H had them in 2007 or even 1977.
Listen
The MSDS for 2007 linked above lists sodium tripolyphosphate at <2.0% for Arm & Hammer powdered detergent. You have a beef with that take it up with them, am only going by what is shown.
The MSDS for 2007 linked above lists sodium tripolyphosphate at <2.0% for Arm & Hammer powdered detergent. You have a beef with that take it up with them, am only going by what is shown.
MSDS who are they ?
A&H home laundry detergents have long been marketed as an environmentally oriented brand since the mid 1970s at least and I have never seen a box or bottle that lists anymore than insignificant trace amounts of any type of phosphates. Maybe you or someone with a detergent box collection can prove this.
A&H home laundry detergents have long been marketed as an environmentally oriented brand since the mid 1970s at least and I have never seen a box or bottle that lists anymore than insignificant trace amounts of any type of phosphates. Maybe you or someone with a detergent box collection can prove this.
After reading earlier in this thread ;
Powdered Tide
has 30 to 40 percent washing soda in in it!! so what's the dif
I can say when you have really soft water a big difference in performance and not worth the hassle after all the sudsing problems and P&G providing me with replacement product three times that did not do any better. It may be great for harder water but for softer water it just doesn't work.
Powdered Tide
has 30 to 40 percent washing soda in in it!! so what's the dif
I can say when you have really soft water a big difference in performance and not worth the hassle after all the sudsing problems and P&G providing me with replacement product three times that did not do any better. It may be great for harder water but for softer water it just doesn't work.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Excuse me Laundress but I knew that soap was made thanks to sodium hydroxide very basic substance (Castic soda), not sodium carbonate (washing soda), at least this is what I make home made soap bars with......
Me and my sister have tried to make home made soap with it and came out very good
.....
If you want I can give you guys our recipe, is very simple to make, just requires some caution, you have to be careful nandling caustic soda as it is highly corrosive, we tried making Marseille soap with olive oil, also we got soap bars with corn oil and peanut oil, you just have to know the coefficient of saponification of every oil to calculate every percentage of sodium hydroxide needed from oil to oil actually you can do it with every kind of fat, we also made it with corn oil and peanut oil....
And we added essential oils for perfume, i made great laundry bars lemon and lavender scented.
Actually I think laundress "confuse" washing soda only with the old laundry lye that once was obtained in the old days by filtering wood ash boiled solution, that one contained some percentages of sodium hydroxide also along with sodium carbonate...lye is the modern word that refers to caustic soda very corrosive substance that was obtained by wood ashes as well, at least this is what wikipedia tells me.
Now I'd need to make some distinctions:
Lye as said means also a strong solution of sodium hydroxide actually used to make soap, obtained in the past as well by wood ashes and by boiling it for more time I guess, while laundry lye was the one used on it's own for laundry and dishes obtained by boiling ashes solution for less time I guess actually making a "soda ash" rather than a lye whre hydroxide was the major component rather than sodium carbonate (soda ash is the old name for washing soda).
I think the website makes some confusion and calls lye both the things....
So all 2 kinds of "lye", caustic and "less caustic" were obtained of course by boiling and filtering wood ashes,laundry lye or soda ash was used as cleaner alone or with soap but over sodium carbobnate (washing soda) it also contained little percentage of sodium hydroxide due to the fact of the antique boiling extraction method that actually could produce corrosive potassium or sodium hydroxide if boiling was prolonged, actually they tasted the soda ash mixture by dropping a drop on the tongue and as it was itching a bit it means it was ready, anyway is the old soda ash or "lye" the one that was harsh since it would contain always some hydroxides in it, it couldn't be sodium carbonate only..... and this explains why the irritated and red hands Laundress mention.
I also used to see here in Italy a packed form of laundry lye (Lisciva) called: Lisciva la sulfonella", actually the main ingredient is sodium carbonate and no traces of caustic soda in it.
So Lye intended as caustic soda is the corrosive substance with whcih you make soap, while laundry/cleaning lye or soda ash is the one that most fits and is similar to the washing soda even if as said contained traces of caustic soda, washing soda intended as (sodium carbonate) alone indeed is not corrosive and also saponification process cannot be made from it.....
[this post was last edited: 8/23/2012-11:53]
Me and my sister have tried to make home made soap with it and came out very good
.....
If you want I can give you guys our recipe, is very simple to make, just requires some caution, you have to be careful nandling caustic soda as it is highly corrosive, we tried making Marseille soap with olive oil, also we got soap bars with corn oil and peanut oil, you just have to know the coefficient of saponification of every oil to calculate every percentage of sodium hydroxide needed from oil to oil actually you can do it with every kind of fat, we also made it with corn oil and peanut oil....
And we added essential oils for perfume, i made great laundry bars lemon and lavender scented.
Actually I think laundress "confuse" washing soda only with the old laundry lye that once was obtained in the old days by filtering wood ash boiled solution, that one contained some percentages of sodium hydroxide also along with sodium carbonate...lye is the modern word that refers to caustic soda very corrosive substance that was obtained by wood ashes as well, at least this is what wikipedia tells me.
Now I'd need to make some distinctions:
Lye as said means also a strong solution of sodium hydroxide actually used to make soap, obtained in the past as well by wood ashes and by boiling it for more time I guess, while laundry lye was the one used on it's own for laundry and dishes obtained by boiling ashes solution for less time I guess actually making a "soda ash" rather than a lye whre hydroxide was the major component rather than sodium carbonate (soda ash is the old name for washing soda).
I think the website makes some confusion and calls lye both the things....
So all 2 kinds of "lye", caustic and "less caustic" were obtained of course by boiling and filtering wood ashes,laundry lye or soda ash was used as cleaner alone or with soap but over sodium carbobnate (washing soda) it also contained little percentage of sodium hydroxide due to the fact of the antique boiling extraction method that actually could produce corrosive potassium or sodium hydroxide if boiling was prolonged, actually they tasted the soda ash mixture by dropping a drop on the tongue and as it was itching a bit it means it was ready, anyway is the old soda ash or "lye" the one that was harsh since it would contain always some hydroxides in it, it couldn't be sodium carbonate only..... and this explains why the irritated and red hands Laundress mention.
I also used to see here in Italy a packed form of laundry lye (Lisciva) called: Lisciva la sulfonella", actually the main ingredient is sodium carbonate and no traces of caustic soda in it.
So Lye intended as caustic soda is the corrosive substance with whcih you make soap, while laundry/cleaning lye or soda ash is the one that most fits and is similar to the washing soda even if as said contained traces of caustic soda, washing soda intended as (sodium carbonate) alone indeed is not corrosive and also saponification process cannot be made from it.....
[this post was last edited: 8/23/2012-11:53]
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
roscoe62
Actually to me from 30-40% with other ingredients as surfactans etc....to 85!!!! Percentage of washing soda that A&H have, so almost all washing soda, there's a HUGE difference!
Actually to me from 30-40% with other ingredients as surfactans etc....to 85!!!! Percentage of washing soda that A&H have, so almost all washing soda, there's a HUGE difference!
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Phosfates in A&H
John, actually in those documents of 2007 TSP are listed to be 2%, this actually is pretty insignificant.....
John, actually in those documents of 2007 TSP are listed to be 2%, this actually is pretty insignificant.....
@kenmoreguy89
When I read the part about the Tide in comparison it helped me to understand why I have been having so much trouble with the new concetrated Tide HE powder and my very soft water.I have never seen A&H powder on market here, majority of shelves are liquids.
Cheers
When I read the part about the Tide in comparison it helped me to understand why I have been having so much trouble with the new concetrated Tide HE powder and my very soft water.I have never seen A&H powder on market here, majority of shelves are liquids.
Cheers
