Bad News About High Efficiency Washers

[decodriveboy]

Saw the Whirltag today at Sears

And I also think it is very nice.

 

[sudsmaster]

I don't quite see why the LG "Water Plus" option would add much, if any, time to the cycle. Also, few front loaders take "hours" to complete a cycle. Most are done within an hour, and most can do rapid washes of lightly soiled items in 30 minutes. For example, the Neptune - the longest cycle I can set is about 109 minutes - the shortest is about 30 minutes. I puposely select the longest cycle for Whites, most of the cycles I run are about 60 minutes. Most front loaders seem to have plenty of wash/temp/spin options, so I don't quite get the complaint of lack of flexibility. The one thing most of them don't offer is overflow rinses - for good reason!!!

 

[48bencix]

Compare that

Compare that with the 18 minute cycle that Frigidaire had for its commercial line. My Maytag AMP can go that low too if I wash for about 3 minutes.

But to face reality, I probably will get a front loader, such as Whirlpool Ht. That is when my Maytag Dependable care finally bites the dust. Given 14 loads a week, if I save 15 gallons a load, I will save about $120 per year, enough to pay for the Ht in about 10 years. (I am calculating the heating cost at 1 cent per gallon, the water cost is about 10 cents for about 100 gallons.)

Martin

 

[DADoES]

One has to wonder what were the specifics of the test that ended with seven pounds of sludge in a Calypso.

The final rinse water level is higher than the preceding wash/rinse phases.

For folks not familiar with Calypso's water use and action, notice in these video clips that water showers down the sides of the tub numerous times during the cycle. 60 RPM spin while wash and rinse water showers over the clothes should keep the tub flushed during normal use.

Each clip is about 5 MB, but only 15 seconds.

Running with no clothes:
Normal sump level during nutation
Nutation on heavy duty cycle
Water level in tub during nutation
60 RPM final rinse shower

Washing a load:
60 RPM wash water spray
Nutation
Spray rinse during final spin

 

[funguy10]

That is footage of you second Calypso right? Could you show some vids inside the tub where all the action is?

 

[ultramatic52]

Hi funguy10

Here are the URLs to the videos I posted in youtube of the Catalyst washer.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fov7y4Pdz0k

Please let me know if you have troubles watching the videos.
If you have any questions don´t hesitate to ask.

 

[frigilux]

Great vids, Glenn! An interesting and generally unseen perspective.

 

[lederstiefel1]

sorry had no time to be here again before...

Sorry, had no time to be here for three days!

To you TWINNIEFAN/Steve.
I totally agree with you and want to say thanks for typing your opinion here, too!
I have three twinnies and I really LOVE to use them!

To you STEVET:
You are 100% right in saying so! Our landlady worked for a big international textile company (ENKA) in the laboratories where they tested fibres, garments and also washing methods as well as detergents. And she always told my mother: Less is more in your machine!! Too few articles in a FL will get bad results as well as an overloaded drum! And when it comes to tub-washers (which were actually already dying out in Germany at that time - the mid sixties) the washing MUST float freely in the wash-water or the machine will ruin the garment!

Ralf

 

[whirlpolf]

3-phase motors @sudsmaster

efficiency, a good point! I remember that my parents got their first AEG Lavamat frontloader with a 3 phase option (5 prongs on the plug, 3 phases, neutral and ground) to run on 380V. It had no capacitor for the motor and even the heater was on 3 phases (no neutral).

Although using a horrendous 150 liters in total for a regular cotton cycle, it went through heating up to 95°C (almost boiling) in about 20 min.

For the motor: When starting the spin cycle, it would slam the whole wet load from zero to 700 rpm in 3 seconds, while the pump was still draining the water.
Ending the spin, the motor was somehow shorted and hence acted as a magnetic brake for the drum (stopped in an instant, NICE screeching sound!)

It was not even TOL at that time, but my dad is using it up to today, the machine runs for 38 years now. Apart from some new suspension springs and a new drain bellow we never had a problem.

 

[funguy10]

Hey DADoeS, did your first Calypso which is currently in the hands of bpetersxx have those sludge problems?

 

[DADoES]

bpetersxxx does not have my first Calypso. The one he has was procured locally in his area by hisownself. Both of mine, the platinum machine purchased on 10/14/2006, and the white bought on 8/2/2007, are in my possession. I have not disassembled the platinum for a look at the tub, but having observed it from outside with the panels removed, there appears to be no sludge. The white also did NOT have a build-up of sludge per se. The residue in the tub was light and flaky. The layer on outside of the basket was of a more heavy, sticky variety (probably softener-related), but washed off easily with water and a nylon scrub brush.

I am running a Whitest Whites load in the white machine at this moment. Hot wash, cold rinse, heavy soil, soak option. Wisk HE liquid + oxy-booster powder. No LCB or softener.

 

[spaniel50]

bad news about high efficency washers

I can only comment on my Neptunes. I love mine. No more unbalanced loads,clothes come out almost dry and they seem to be much gentler on the clothes. I had been very happy with the old 806 maytags but I hated the new Whirlpool top loader washer and dryer I bought so I took the plung and got the Neptunes. Thanks to you guys for converting me to fl washer.
The Neptunes are sooooo quiet compared to the Whirlpools.

 

[funguy10]

By the way, about that mold in front-loaders problem, Whirlpool has just come out with the new Duet Steam washer and dryer set and the Clean Washer cycle on the washer uses steam to sanitize the drum and remove/kill mold and mildew.

 

[pierreandreply4]

kenmore he5t

hello

i think the sears kenmore he5t as the same option

just see the link

http://www.sears.com

 

[funguy10]

Nope, I don't think it has one. You are probably thinking of the similarly styled LG TROMM SteamWasher.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Like Glen, I've never had any kind of sludge buildup in the Calypso in over 6 years of heavy use. And I don't use HE detergent in it either. Only thing I've had is some light calcium scale, which was easily removed with CLR. When I removed the wash plate to repair it a few months ago, it was as clean as a whistle under there....not a mark on it...bright and shiny stainless. And it only uses about 3 - 5 gallons of water in a typical fill.

 

[dj-gabriele]

I never heard of mold/sludge growing in a front loader... I always used such machines and none, repeat, none of them ever suffered mold/sludge problems! Also nobody in Italy is aware of this, must say, supposed problem. The only precaution one should have is to keep the loading window slighty open to avoid smells if the machine isn't used for a long time (and by smell I say old detergent and rubber seal smell, not mold) so I really can't understand the self cleaning cycles on USA machines! I even re-read the instructions for my washing machine and it not even mentions the thing!

 

[pierreandreply4]

picture of kenmore het5 washer

hello here is a picture of the kenmore het5 washer

tank you

 

[funguy10]

So you've never heard of mold and sludge growing in a Front-Loader but Fisher & Paykel HAS heard of mold and sludge growing in a TOP-LOADER! They, however see that the stuff comes from Fabric Softener-NOT SOAP! They say the stuff is called "scrud" and they are so concerned about it that they do not want consumers to use fabric softener! On the section in the instruction manuals for all 3 models of their washers(EcoSmart, Intuitive Eco, AquaSmart) That talks about softener use the first tip is "Use it sparingly!" DADoeS, you own an IWL12. Do you have sludge problems with it? Did you have sludge problems with the GWL08? Does your grandma who is the current owner of the GWL08 have sludge problems with it?

 

[DADoES]

IWL12 and GWL08 are not HE machines, although IWL12 could be considered pseudo-HE. I don't think it can accurately be said that F&P "[does] not want" consumers to use fabric softener, being that all their machines have a softener dispenser of some ilk. Use in moderation, definitely. I have had some softener build-up on both machines in the base of the agitator and on the basket hub (direct line-of-fire where it dribbles when dispensing). I wouldn't call that a system-wide case of scrud or sludge as there were no significant deposits elsewhere. A "machine clean" hot soak cleared it some but not as well as I wanted, so I pulled the agitator and finished the job with a brush. When I use softener with the lint filter (which goes down into the agitator), there is noticeable softener residue (feels slippery/greasy) on the filter if I pull and clean it immediately after a load. I've never paid attention to how much of it would wash off during the next load if softener wasn't used.

The typical consumer may believe that softener falls into the "more is better" category, which it surely does not. Softener is typically dosed according to the load size ... as in physical mass of clothing. Frontloaders and HE toploaders deal with a higher concentration of softener by volume of water than do standard toploaders, so it seems reasonable that softener build-up may be more likely to occur. However, I'd expect more residue to occur in the dispenser tray and injection path to the tub than on the basket and tub themselves.