Bad News About High Efficiency Washers

[DADoES]

IWL12 and GWL08 are not HE machines, although IWL12 could be considered pseudo-HE. I don't think it can accurately be said that F&P "[does] not want" consumers to use fabric softener, being that all their machines have a softener dispenser of some ilk. Use in moderation, definitely. I have had some softener build-up on both machines in the base of the agitator and on the basket hub (direct line-of-fire where it dribbles when dispensing). I wouldn't call that a system-wide case of scrud or sludge as there were no significant deposits elsewhere. A "machine clean" hot soak cleared it some but not as well as I wanted, so I pulled the agitator and finished the job with a brush. When I use softener with the lint filter (which goes down into the agitator), there is noticeable softener residue (feels slippery/greasy) on the filter if I pull and clean it immediately after a load. I've never paid attention to how much of it would wash off during the next load if softener wasn't used.

The typical consumer may believe that softener falls into the "more is better" category, which it surely does not. Softener is typically dosed according to the load size ... as in physical mass of clothing. Frontloaders and HE toploaders deal with a higher concentration of softener by volume of water than do standard toploaders, so it seems reasonable that softener build-up may be more likely to occur. However, I'd expect more residue to occur in the dispenser tray and injection path to the tub than on the basket and tub themselves.

 

[lederstiefel1]

I never have that problem as we do not use softener anymore!
In TLs and Twinnies there's no need for it - the washing is much smoother and softer than when washed in a drum - less rubbing!

Ralf

 

[funguy10]

What about the Fisher & Paykel AquaSmart WL26CW1? It is an HE machine because it does not have an agitator. It does have a fabric softener dispenser.

 

[decodriveboy]

Interesting link.

Quoting the OP:

"In addition, the lack of enough water and the “damp washing” technique causes excessive abrasion between the clothes which generates a huge amount of lint which forms a sludge that is not completely flushed out of the machine during the spin-drain cycle. This sludge gradually builds up between the drum and the outer tub and it forms mold and mildew."

A lot of complaints here:

http://www99.epinions.com/msg/show_~threads/cat_id_~17/id_~4097/forum_id_~409/pp_~13

 

[coldspot66]

Another interesting link.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97140&p=irol-newsText&t=Regular&id=1055792&

 

[funguy10]

Oh yeah, I read the manual for the Duet Steam washer online and the part of the manual that talks about cleaning the inside of the machine mentions to put in 2 Afresh tablets and then run the "Clean Washer" cycle.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I have to take issue with Deco's comment that HE washers are only designed to last a few years. Even looking at machines owned by various members in other countries and their families, we see machines that have lasted a generation or more. Frugal people would not shell out the money for Miele washers if they did not expect 30 years of service which is average for these, I have read. Maybe you are thinking of the bearing failures with the small Electrolux machines, but please do not transfer that data to all of the HE machines or to the fine machines from Northern Europe which have set the standards for performance and durability for decades.

 

[decodriveboy]

Let me clear that up Tom....I wasn't referring to high-quality brands like Miele, but towards American-manufactured machines. It would be wonderful if we had washers like the ones in Europe. Sorry for the confusion if anyone took it wrong.

 

[sudsmaster]

Recent American Top-Loader have been more disappointing

Poor engineering and build quality is not the exclusive domain of American front loaders. Numerous traditional top loader designs of the past decade or so, from established "quality" names like Maytag and GE, often have been found quite lacking when it comes to reliability and washing results. Witness the self-destructing GE plastic transmission, the dumbing down of hot water settings to 90F, and the general cheapening of construction of a design that should require little to no R&D expense. Such washers have more or less become a commodity, not an investment. They don't have planned obsolescence, like over-ripe fruit, they have genetically limited lifespans.

While the Neptune has had more than its share of issues, there are many satisfied owners (myself included). Other reliable American design and mfg designs include the Speed Queen and the Staber. Most of the rest of the front load offerings from American brands are designed and/or manufactured overseas.

 

[funguy10]

Fisher & Paykel is another dependable brand but is not made in the USA.

 

[DADoES]

FunGuy, you aren't researching your facts very well. F&P has a factory in Clyde, Ohio for washers & SmartLoad dryers, and probably the SmartDrive motors used in Oasis & Cabrio & Bravos. Someone on another message board posted in October 2006 that his new IWL16 is labeled made in the USA, although his DEIX2 at that time still said New Zealand. They may also have a facility in California, obtained during the purchase of DCS.

 

[funguy10]

Sorry, my bad. Also, I think the entire Oasis, Cabrio, Bravos machines and also the dryers are made in the USA as well. Also, Staber washers and dryers are made in Groveport, another city in Ohio.

 

[funguy10]

I just saw that Samsung has come out with the new AirWash washer/dryer combo. It has SiverCare just like its predessor the SilverCare washer. Not only does the SilverCare option sanitize your laundry, but it is also used in the "Tub Clean" cycle to kill mold and mildew and it also sanitizes the drum. The SilverCare option is so strong it leaves your laundry sanitized for a month after you use the SilverCare. This is also true for the drum so it keeps mold and mildew from forming on it for a month. If you look on the pictures of the machine, SilverCare is labeled "Ag+".(Ag is the 2-letter symbol for silver on the periodic table of elements.)

 

[dj-gabriele]

SilverCare: it's proven that silver ions are effectively useless at everything, it's just market move. Btw... I wouldn't ever air-clean (hahaha) my clothes at home... only water and soap really clean (if you exclude proper dry-cleaning that I use a lot!)

 

[funguy10]

Well still, we can see what companies are doing to nullify the mold problem in Front-Loaders. Whirlpool has the Duet Steam washer which uses steam in the Clean Washer cycle. Samsung has just come out with the AirWash washer/dryer combo which uses AG+ (Positively charged Silver ions) in the Self-Clean cycle to sanitize the drum. Also, about TechniGeek's Calypso thing, there are thousands of happy Whirlpool Calypso/Kenmore Calypso owners in the country. I can name 3 right off the bat: bpetersxx, DADoeS, and jaxsunst.(If he can ever get his fixed.)

 

[launderess]

Have owned front loaders for more years that one cares to remember and have not once been bothered by mould. Well the vintage Miele came with a bad problem in that regard, soon saw to setting that right.

If one uses proper detergents and keeps the door of a front loader open between uses, mould is so much less of a problem to almost rank nil. Many Americans insist on shutting up their front loaders after wash day, and leave the machine sitting for days at at time that way. Well mould needs warmth, food and moisture to grow, all of which happens in a front loader when it is shut up. There is also Americans insist on very large machines so they can do laundry once a week or fortnight. Again leaving a the machine shut up for that long unused is bound to cause problems. If one passes any laundromat that has front loaders, more often than not you will see all the doors to the machines left open after closing. Heck, shut up your dishwasher for several weeks and leave it unused and it will develop a whiff about it as well.

Don't bother with "cleansing" cycles either, but then again do tend to launder at least one load at temps >180F every few weeks, so that is that. Maybe once every six months or so will run a descaling wash with the Miele powder, but between using STPP in most wash loads, and Persil which contains a built-in limescale preventer, things are pretty good in that department.

 

[toggleswitch]

Although Euro mannies will balk, a little chlorine bleach has been known to kill a germ or other single-celled beastie as well.

 

[funguy10]

How can you possibly use a self-clean cycle to do laudry without hacking/modifying the washer's programing? And of course the cleansing cycles work. DADoeS, mentioned in an earlier post in this thread about how his IWL12 has gunk on the agitator base and basket hub. He runs the Tub Clean cycle followed by pulling out the agitator and finishing the job with a scrub brush. He says this always seems to work.

 

[DADoES]

FunGuy, I've run the cleaning cycle on my IWL12 only ONE TIME. You make it sound as if I do that often, which I do not.

As I understand it, the cleaning cycle on Whirlpool-family front loaders sense via rotational feedback whether there are clothes in the drum and won't run with a load. I can't say about the Cabrio/Oasis/Bravos/AquaSmart, but F&P agitator top loaders will wash clothes on the cleaning cycle. In fact, using the cleaning cycle is the only way to get a full-fill hot wash on the GWL11/15.

 

[funguy10]

Too bad most people dont know that.