Bosch Side-by-Side (US style) problem - help!?

[MrX]

We have a Bosch Side-by-Side US-Style Fridge-freezer. It suddenly started tripping the RCD (GFCI) yesterday and I couldn't figure out what was going on.

We cleared it out, vacuum cleaned the condensor coil (it was full of dust) and generally gave it a good cleaning out inside and allowed it to defrost over night.

I turned it back on again today and after about 2 or 3 mins it tripped the RCD again.

So, I decided to open the back panel of the freezer and take a look at the evaporator etc to see if anything was going on.

The entire area was soaking wet, including all the foam seals. There was a large bag of some kind of insulating paste sitting directly ontop of the evaporator! It looked like it had been left in there when the machine was built 8 years ago!

Blobs of this had broken off and worked their way into the drain pan below clogging the drain line.

I used a curtain wire to rod out the drain line and gently dried out the entire area.

Fingers crossed it now works OK.

It hasn't tripped anything since it's been restarted.

Has anyone else ever come across anything like this before?

It appears to be a re-badged 230V 50Hz version of a kelvinator side-by-side. It's made in the USA and has very little to do with Bosch I suspect.

Also, where would the evap drain water have gone if the tube was 100% blocked?!
It's a bit of a mystery !!

Overall, I am very unimpressed with this fridge, it was extremely expensive and it's just really badly built. Bits have fallen off e.g. the covers for the door hinges, various shelves etc.
The 3 drawers all broke and had to be replaced!

In general I'd avoid like the plague in future and stick with something designed a little closer to home.

 

[hydralique]

I don't think there has been a Kelvinator home refrigerator made in the US in many, many years. Electrolux makes some Kelvinator badged commerical products and I don't know what else.

In my expericance Bosch products can't be counted on to be consistantly good. Some are excellent, some are junk. The last Bosch home appliance I owned was a coffee grinder made in Slovenia. It died early in a shower of sparks as the very, very cheaply made switch melted and then shorted out while I held it. An early failure is one thing, but doing so in a manner which creates the possibility of fire or exposes the user to a mains electricity shock is quite another.

 

[MrX]

I'm just curious as to what could be causing the RCD trip though. Anyone got any ideas?

It's weird as it doesn't happen instantly when you plug it in. Rather, the fridge will run for a while then trip out the power.

Also where did that large lump of 'putty' come from? Is there anywhere it could have dropped from?

The fridge is definitely made in the USA. It's written on the rating pate inside. All of the components are 230V though as it was sold in Ireland.

Also, before anyone suggests "nuisance tripping". The fridge has been running happily for about 7 or 8 years without incident and there is no such thing as a non RCD (GFCI) protected circuit here. Every socket outlet is protected regardless of where it is / what it does.

When does the defrost heater operate ? In this model it's a loop of insulated cable rather than a bulb-type.

European fridges are a drastically different design. This is why I am relatively unfamiliar with US type fridges, even though I own one! Normally fridges here have the evaporator tubes just below the surface of the walls of the fridge section with a channel along the end to catch condensate. The whole thing is completely wipe down. Some have a fan, but it's just a recirculation fan that makes sure that the whole fridge is an even temp.

European freezers generally have the evaporators sitting between the food drawers with a powerful 'super freeze' section at the top drawer which is completely sorounded with evaporator pipework in the walls.

The condenser is usually a large radiator on the back and cools passively without a fan.

The US approach seems a bit more like an air conditioner.

 

[MrX]

Model detais

Bosch KFU5755/03

Photo below:

Look familiar to anyone?

 

[hydralique]

The defrost heater should be on a timer or sensor - you'll have to get a schematic to check. Sometimes the timers go out, but are usually not too bad to replace. If the heater is running too much then perhaps the current draw is excessive, or maybe there's a short in the heater circuit itself, resulting in the refrigerator working fine until the defrost kicks in.

Older refrigerators had the passive condensors mounted on the back of the box, but most newer ones use smaller condensors under the box with a fan. Both types have their advantages. The former has no fan to make noise or fail, but can suffer from inadequate cooling if placed in a niche surrounded by cabinets.

Are there any IC control circuits in this unit? That's the cause of so many modern appliance failures. I just trashed a 3 or 4 year old rather nice Panasonic micowave because the circuitry failed. Once the micorwave turned off correctly on the timer it then sat until the door was opened, at which point it turned back on right as you reached in for the food! The first replacement unit (GE, I'm done with Panasonic) was DOA (wouldn't turn on even thought he panel lit up),so far the second GE is OK but I'm sure it will never, ever be the equal of my old American made Amana Radarange that worked several times a day for nearly 20 years.

 

[MrX]

Yeah, there are IC controls, although I'm not quite sure for what as the two controllers for the fridge and freezer temps are just sliders at the top of the fridge part.

I still suspect that something's severely water logged.

If I have to chuck it out, it's not the end of the world. We'll get something a bit more modern and integrated properly. Overall, I don't think it was the best buy. It certainly doesn't seem to be of the quality that I'd expect from Bosch normally. It's definitely a rebadge job.

Side-by-Side seems to make quite poor use of the space. The fridge part has good space but, I just find that there's very little room for wide things in the freezer. So, all those larger flatter items end up in our smaller 2/3rds height Bosch Fridge-Freezer (normal Euro design)

I prefer the more traditional top/bottom design. Just seems much more practically layed out.

 

[MrX]

I did a bit of a Google visual comparison and it looks IDENTICAL to some of the Jenn Air models!

Same water / ice dispenser front panel and the door design looks very suspiciously similar.

I suspect Bosch is just contracting them out.

 

[hydralique]

Well, Jenn-Air was part of Maytag before Whirlpool bought them, so I assume they still own them unless they were sold on to Bosch. Certainly Jenn-Air was never known for refrigerators; their big deal was downdraft cooktops and I don't think they ever built their own refrigerators.

Regarding the old side by side vs. top or bottom freezer issue, it has a lot to do with how a kitchen is planned. Top or bottom freezer units have wide doors (excepting the rare French door units), while those on a side by side are narrow. If there is plenty of space in front of the refrigerator then it doesn't matter, but if there is an island across from it then often a side by side makes for a better fit in that it doesn't block the aisle as much when the door is open. Normally when I plan a kitchen, I want 48" between the island and any countertop, but often in a remodel it gets a little tighter - I'll allow 42" but no less. Also, you can't get a really big top or bottom freezer unit, with 36" being the widest I know of. So for 42" or 48" units you have to go with a side by side. For small refrigerators of less than 36" width my favorite is a bottom freeezer, but then I don't need a huge refrigerator. So long as my beloved turquoise '67 Frigidaire keeps going I'm not in the market anyway!

One funny thing about refrigerator planning is that even though the big built in 48" Sub Zeros and GE Monograms are huge and nice, lots of the people who have them also have a freestanding refrigerator sitting in their garage or butler's pantry because the depth of the built in units is only 24" on the outside. This means they won't hold some big platters. Wouldn't bother me, but in my years as a residential architect I've heard this complaint many times.

 

[petek]

Shame about that fridge but it's still probably worth getting it repaired considering how much it would cost to replace. But then again those SXS really aren't all they're cracked up to be, more wow than user practicality. I found the one we used to have really annoying, too narrow, hard to grab stuff in the back of both freezer and fridge, pizza boxes don't fit. I wouldn't have another one although my partner loved it but then it was probably our first big purchase together and it held more sentimental value to to him.

 

[danemodsandy]

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[mattl]

I had a similar problem a few weeks ago...

I borrowed a refrigerator and it was working fine then all of a sudden it kept tripping the GFI. Couldn't figure out what was wrong. It a 3 year old Frigidaire tagged Electrolux. Did some research online and it was suggested it was the start capacitor so I pulled it, still no luck - any time the control was moved off "off" the GFI tripped. Put my VOM across the plug and in the on position there was almost a dead short with the compressor disconnected. Thought perhaps the thermostat was bad and shorting out so I pulled that apart, no issues there.

That lead me to the defrost timer, disconnected that and the problem went away! Ah ha! But not so fast, if I turned it the problem went away again, until it hit defrost mode. OK, Now I pull the freezer apart. Look at the defrost heater, check it, no shorts to ground. Check everything else in the circuit, nothing.

The only ting I did find was the connection to the heater was wet and out of place so perhaps some water got in there and was somehow shorting it out to the metal back. I repositioned everything and all has been fine for 3 weeks. Odds are if it was on a non-GFI circuit it would have been fine, but you never know.

 

[MrX]

There's no way of checking it on a non GFI circuit in this house as they've required RCD (european terminology for GFI) on absolutely every socket outlet since the 1970s in Ireland. The RCDs are on the distribution panel, not on the individual outlets.

More modern installations now use a combined MCB (Circuit Breaker) and RCD (GFCI) module on every circuit. Older panels use an RCD on each row of breakers. I think this was because at the time RCDs were very bulky and expensive. The old ones are several times bigger than a standard breaker. Usually 3 or 4 modules wide.

The only circuit that is exempt is the cooker (oven/hob).

All that being said, I'd rather have an RCD trip than have to rely on a ground fault tripping an over-current protection breaker or fuse. At least you can't really do any damage / get shocked.

The usual culprits in our house are either the Iron or the Kettle when someone's manage to over fill them and get water into the terminals.

This fridge is definitely sub-contracted by Bosch in Europe though. US-style side by sides are a niche market here much like Miele washing machines are in the US. They're kinda high end and a little bit unusual. You won't see any other US-style refrigeration appliances.

It's possible that they're subcontracted to Maytag (before it was Whirlpool) or to Whirlpool.

There's a weird "MII" logo on some of it. Does that make any sense to anyone ?
and a MADE IN THE USA badge on the rating label. Other than that it's DVE (German Electrical Testing Body) and CE marked and fully CFC free and has the standard European *(***) [Four Star] rating for the freezer which means that it chills to -18C and is capable of chilling food down to freezing safely for up to 12 months storage and European B rated energy efficiency.

 

[MrX]

Here's a Euro energy label

For those of you outisde of Europe, here's how a European appliance energy label looks

A = Good
G = Highly wasteful

(This is just a generic fridge label)

All appliances are required to have those labels stuck on when they're displayed for sale.

Washing machines also give the wash performance and spin extraction performance info.

 

[MrX]

I'm thinking of going for seperates

I'm thinking of going for a full size 60cm European frost-free seperates instead of this side-by-side.

something along the lines of this pair :

What do you think?

Electrolux
(Fridge)

 

[MrX]

Freezer

Here's it's partner

You can reverse the doors and put them side-by-side or put them in different parts of the kitchen.

I think it's a bit more spacious and flexible.