California Electricity Dilemma

[good-shepherd]

great diesel cars that get amazing MPG and burn clean

And that exposes the dishonesty and hypocrisy of the government push for EV's.

 

[combo52]

There’s no such thing as a clean diesel engine

It is not a conspiracy by the EPA most European cities are banning diesel vehicles as well from even driving into the cities.

Hundreds of thousands of people and millions of lives have been cut short by the emissions caused by burning diesel fuel in cars and trucks etc. worldwide there’s no getting around that

John L .

 

[lowefficiency]

>> government push for EV's

It's not just the government. People are voting with their wallets, and millions want electric cars. Nearly every EV manufacturer is sold out for months or years, and without any federal incentives, Tesla is outselling Volkswagen 4:1 in the US. Ford launched the F150 Lightning, and had to close the order books because in just a few months, they amassed enough sales to fill three years of manufacturing capacity.

 

[maytag85]

“Hundreds of thousands of people and millions of lives have been cut short by the emissions caused by burning diesel fuel in cars and trucks etc. worldwide there’s no getting around that”

You have to realize more people have lost their lives from the pollution from coal fired power plants, far fewer lives would have been lost of there were more clean nuclear power plants around but yet keep on falling for the propaganda from the oil tycoons and bureaucrats they put out there.

So let’s complain about how fossil fuels are bad but then complain how nuclear is bad and too expensive, then complain people still use fossil fuels since renewables can’t keep up since there isn’t a abundance of clean power from clean and proven nuclear power plants, then complain people use too much electricity, and the contradictions continue over and over and over again..

 

[sudsmaster]

And on top of it all, today I received an edict from the California Bay Area Air Quality Management Districe that lighting any wood fires, such as a BBQ or fireplace, is prohibited until further notice:

 

A Spare the Air Alert is in effect, Friday, November 25, for the San Francisco Bay Area.

It is illegal for Bay Area residents and businesses to burn wood or manufactured firelogs in fireplaces, woodstoves and inserts, pellet stoves, outdoor fire pits, or any other wood burning devices.

Concentrations of particulate matter pollution are forecast to be unhealthy. High levels of particulate matter pollution are harmful to breathe, especially for young children, seniors and those with respiratory and heart conditions. Protect your health by staying indoors and avoid unnecessary outdoor activities.                                       

This AirAlert is provided by the Bay Area Air Quality Management District. Thank you for doing your part to Spare the Air!

 

Do not reply directly to this email. If you want more information on the air quality forecast, or other aspects of the local air quality program, please contact your local air quality agency using the information above. For more information on the U.S. EPA's AIRNow Program, visit http://www.airnow.gov.

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[potatochips]

I don't think people fully understand how much load EVs will put on the grid. People are forgetting that in the last twenty years we have made serious strides in reducing consumption on basic things like light bulbs all the way up to electric water heaters and electric baseboard heating for homes. On a commercial and industrial level, switching to LED lights and more efficient motors (the later being a Canadian federal and provincial government grant program), sophisticated Building Automation Systems and efficiency programs have all contributed to a lot less energy consumption.

 

So, knowing how efficient things have gotten, have you ever heard of surplus grid capacity? Nope. 

 

Anytime we make something use less, we just find something else to use that freed up energy. We are not ready for EVs. I fully see the necessity and need for EVs, I want them, but we're not ready for them. Humans in general aren't ready to make the sacrifices needed to curb climate change. 

 

 

 

[Chetlaham]

@maytag85: Minds like yours are refreshing! Preferring Maytag Dependable cares over any other washer screams a genius mind in of itself. I just knew you would have common sense views grounded in reality on everything else.

Coal, gas and oil plants have taken hundreds of millions of lives and done by far the most damage to the planet effecting the lives of 8 billion people directly or indirectly in various ways.

Nuclear accidents on the other hand are the byproduct of greed and ignorance and were 100% the lack of common sense ie you don't build a reactor without basic containment or the inadvertent ability to melt down.

There is also the fact nuclear plants are actually simpler than coal and oil plants and can be made at any size.

 

[Chetlaham]

NYC is about the have a similar fate

At one point NYC was about to go pollution free and carbon free while still being 100% reliable:

https://gothamist.com/news/goodbye-...er-plant-sets-course-for-100-renewable-energy

The Hudson Cable and Cross Sound Cables failing periodically for years at a time show that localized generation is the only viable option.

 

[combo52]

Electrical power systems for the US

In over 100 years there is yet to be a significant length of time with power was not available.

There is no likelihood that regulators are going to leave us without power there’s just too much pressure to produce power of the whole world would come to a stop without it.

With all the problems of the world this is the last thing that I am worried about is not my problem directly, there are thousands of people working on this situation right now.

I’m surprised you pro nuke guys aren’t embracing electric cars and switching homes and businesses to being all electric maybe if we use enough electric you might get your wish and you have a new nuclear power plant a few miles from your home.

The history pretty clear on nuclear power it’s the most expensive way to produce power we’ve ever come up with on a large scale and nobody wants one within 100 miles of their home so I don’t think the odds are very good we’re gonna go to nuclear on a large scale but I know it We will continue to play a role in our power supply.

And keep in mind your homeowners insurance will not pay for harm caused by accident at a nuclear power plant,

John

 

[DADoES]

 
John, there is a nuclear power plant a smidgen more than 40 miles from my house, it has been in operation for more than 30 years.  I've never had any fears or objections of it.

 

[repairguy]

On numerous camping trips I stayed within a few miles of it.

 

[combo52]

Nuclear Power Plants

Unfortunately are two about 60 miles from us in two different directions, they are both to be decommissioned in the next decade or so as they are wearing out.

 

Hopefully nothing goes wrong in the mean time as my home owners insurance will not cover any problems.

I point this out about the insurance issue not because I’m excessively worried about living near nuclear power plants I don’t think the risk is that great but it just goes to prove that it is not cost-effective when you can’t even get insurance for something like this.

I also point this out because they’re not going to build more nuclear power plants because of the severe cost solar cost about a 10th as much right now per kilowatt.

<p>John L.

 

[DADoES]

 
The odds at my location of a homeowners insurance claim from damage caused by a hurricane, wind storm, hail, fire, and probably also a vehicle running into the house are surely much greater than damage from a nuclear power plant.

Neighbors on both sides have had a combined total of at least four incidents of cars (and an 18-wheeler) hitting their fences in the 18 years I've been here.  There has been one incident of a car running through the ditch in front of my house and over the driveway culvert, leaving a few bits of car behind and scars on the culvert concrete and edge of the driveway.

 

[Chetlaham]

All electric homes and cars

Will only be meaningful with 100% carbon free energy.

Before that happens the infrastructure needs to be in place first.

 

[petek]

I'm all for more nuclear power generation. 60% of Ontario's power comes from it and 30+ percent from hydro. I don't think there's a coal plant left and very few gas ones either to make up the remaining 10% along with solar etc. I certainly don't feel threatened with it being about 60 miles up the lake.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Yes we remember Firmi & how We Almost Lost Detroit…

Fictionalization aside with how Nuclear Power was presented in The Simpsons and the dramatization of Karen Silkwood and Three Mile Island, surely nuclear energy has come or could with more development cone a long way from its hazardous beginnings and prompting MUSE (Musicians United for Safe Energy) and the No Nukes demonstration in the concert/documentary…

Seems as though I’d like to think if at least this nation gets its way in everything electric even getting through heavy, deep snow then this method is once again worth another realistic and honest try…

— Dave

For

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, the Three Mile Island catastrophe put a big onus on nuclear power in the USA.

 

However, as I recall, TMI had an antiquated type of reactor system that has been surpassed in terms of safety for at least, what, four decades? I forget the details, but it was more or less guaranteed to fail, eventually, if the monitoring and upkeep was not 100%.

 

I suppose I could refresh my memory with Google, though.

 

Meanwhile, I'm wondering if California might have big off more than it can chew with its new EV and home/water heating mandates. No new gas powered cars allowed after 2035, and no new gas home or water heaters allowed after 2030. I have a backup gas powered water heater which appears to be in relatively good shape. However I'm wondering how long the gas furnace in the crawl space is going to last. And also how much it would cost to run 220 to that location as well as purchase an electric substitute. Also, since its in the middle of the crawl space, I'm not at all sure if a heat exchanger system could fit in there.

 

Probably $$$ not matter what. I just hope the state has some funding ideas for retired homeowners like me.

 

 

[combo52]

Reply number 56

Hi Rich you only need a new air handler which is probably smaller than your existing furnace in the crawlspace it’ll run on the same 120 V that is there now.

You will need a 240 V line going to the site of the condenser unit will only need 12 gauge wire in a 20 amp line.

This will heat and cool your home all year round.

The equipment itself will cost about 2000+ whoever installs it.

We do not need to fear the future, but you and I are about the same age and you definitely need air conditioning to preserve your health when we get these heat waves in the summer this would also be an excellent opportunity to put in a top-of-the-line air filtration system to protect from smoke if there any other forest fires etc. nearby. With the local air quality in that region of the country this might be a good thing to do in general to keep you healthier and to keep the house cleaner.

As I said in an earlier post there’s never been a period with extended power outages in this country in the last hundred years I don’t think they’re gonna let that happen I am content to let the people who are smarter than me figure out where the power is going to come from, it is possible they will adjust these mandates but nobody’s running over to your house to rip out your gas appliances.

John

 

[potatochips]

@chetlaham Nuke plants are significantly more complex than any thermal plant. Having spent time in a thermal generating station, I can confidently say this. Thermal stations can also be scaled in any size from small to large. Generally one unit peaks out at around 6-800MW, but you can have multiple units per plant that can make the whole station generate well in to the thousands of MWs, check out Nanticoke Generating Station. Thermal is far more adaptive and easier to use. Nuclear is the best bang for buck, but thanks to advances in technology it can finally make small MWs instead of the big dickin' 1000MW+ per unit. 

 

@combo52 new nuke builds are really the only way out of this for the long term unless something significantly changes in generating technology. Wind and solar are great for peak power production, but at this current juncture they're a total pain in the ass. We took one 100MW unit offline because the wind was forecast to come up, but it never did. So we spend close to five hours firing a boiler to heat it and the turbine up without generating a single watt of power. Hows that for saving the whales? Five hours of generating GHGs for nothing. At least when you make power you can account for why you made GHGs. 

 

Nuclear, in reality, is actually the cheapest form of electricity. Initially nuclear was so cheap to run that you couldn't meter it, it was easier to just charge the ratepayer a monthly base fee. But since nuclear has been regulated out of sight, its now crazy expensive which isnt fair. Greenpeace jammed up a new nuclear build in Ontario in the early 2010s to the point that Ontario Power Generation cancelled it because the legal process for approval, which Greenpeace appealed, ended up costing wayyy too much and delayed the project five years. And thats money the ratepayer will never ever get back. To do any sort of work in a nuclear power plant takes four times the planning and ends up costing a magnitude more than any other form of generation because of regulations based on fear. 

 

I work in oil and gas now, but the level of hypocrisy and stupidity I saw in power generation is the same as O&G. All this bullshit is caused by people who whine and complain and have no idea the repercussions of their demands. I am for sensible and responsible environmentalism. But the current mantra and group think from environmentalists is stupid. They will plug their ears when you tell them that mining metals for EVs is significantly more polluting than fossil fuels, requires fossil fuels to do it, and often happens in countries with little to no environmental and labour regulations or ones that can be bought out.

 

[mark_wpduet]

They will plug their ears when you tell them that mining metals for EVs is significantly more polluting than fossil fuels, requires fossil fuels to do it, and often happens in countries with little to no environmental and labour regulations or ones that can be bought out.

YES!!!

Am I wrong or do wind turbines use oil? LOL

One thing that's always bugged the hell out of me (this being an appliance forum) is the environmentalists never mention that as each year passes...things don't last nearly as long...they are designed to fail after XX years (give or take)... but that SAME product must be energy efficient?? What kind of sense does that make? Why do they never address this? Look at all of the energy used to create that appliance that ends up in a landfill sooner than later.