Cascade phosphate free is getting TERRIBLE reviews by customers!

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One can look up recent information on P&G's website, but last time one checked, most if not all powdered versions of Tide including their "Pro-Line" had the same MSDS listing. *Think* the only difference for "HE" versions is they contain foam surpressing agents.

Since P&G now lists chemcial content for products on their website, that probably is a better reference. Material data safety sheets only cover potentially hazardous ingredients, not total contents.

L.
 
Tide He is low sudsing?

This stuff creates so much foam that I cannot use it because it doesn't rinse well. Ok it is lower than regular tide but I could do with less suds from Tide He especially their liquids.
 
Well Yes, But...

As one stated before, P&G did not create a special "HE" detergent from the ground up, but tinkered with the Tide formula already in production.

Indeed, IIRC of all the "HE" detergents from the main players, none were created as such from the start,but evolved from their high sudsing cousins.

Even the cheapest BOL European detergent makes less froth and rinses better, IMHO than many of the American "HE" detergents.
Why? Simply because by and large H-Axis machines dominate the market, thus products are designed to work under those conditions.

In order to make Tide truly low sudsing it would take a total change of surfactants, and that in turn means rejigging everything from chemical formulas to production plants.
 
Und was würde Klementine davon sagen???

The year I spent the summer in Holland, we were close enough to the German border to be able to view one German tv station. At the time, I did not yet speak German, but I noted that the Klementine concept was a direct rip off of the Josephine The Lady Plumber ads for Comet cleanser. Josephine had been on US television since the very early 1960s.

What I failed to realize was that both Comet and Ariel are Proctor & Gamble products, and P&G was free to rip off their own idea. They probably assumed (correctly) that few if any German tv viewers had ever seen a Comet ad or had heard of Josephine The Lady Plumber.

Here is a link to a Josephine The Plumber/Comet ad.



The underlined link below is a Klementine/Ariel ad. (Niet oop Nederlands maar oop duits).



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Klementine

Just watched the old Ariel spot and thought it may be worth to mention that Ariel being a bio detergent was marketed in the beginning as a powder for the prewash cycle. By the time of the tv spot it was emphasized to be suitable for the mainwash as well but only up to 60° ;-)
I still remember when they finally gave up trying to convince Germans to do without boilwashing. It was in the late 70s when Klementine pronounced: From now on you can use Ariel for all your laundry, no more need to buy a seperate boilwash powder !
It somehow reminds me of Miele and the lack of bleach dispensers in the States. They learned their lesson, today`s Ariel Excel Gel, even the color type is good for any temperature whereas Persil Arctic Power kicks out at 60.
 
As I recall, European dw detergents contain chemcials called phosphonates. These have phosphorus in them but the phosphonate combination supposedly doesn't allow the phosphorus to promote algae growth in fresh water.

The hoopla about phosphate pollution of coastal waters is a big bunch of BS. Seawater already contains vast amounts of phosphate - a bit more from dishwashers and clothes washers isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. Untreated raw sewage high in nitrates is the problem, again and again.

To top all this off, only 10-15% of the phosphates in sewage comes from household cleaners. The vast majority comes from human waste (urine and feces). It is an essential nutrient, without which we would all die. Are we going to commit mass suicide by restricting the phosphate in our diets to satisfy some ridiculous environmental fantasy?

 
Yes, European dishwasher detergents contain indeed Phosphonates, but my detergent (Somat) contains less than 5% of it. However there is more than 30% Phosphates in it.

I guess at the time phosphates were banned there weren't that many dishwashers in Europe and the wash results of detergents without phosphates were probably a disaster at that time. So removing it from the dishwasher detergents didn't bring a lot.

Removing it from laundry detergent was considered important because of the nutrification of lakes in the Netherlands and some other European countries as well. I've seen totally green lakes when I was young. In the years after the ban of phosphates the lakes got clearer and clearer so I guess the ban had it's purpose.

Nowadays it's possible to filter out phosphates so I think it would be a good idea to replace the zeolites etc. by phosphates again. Much better for the environment I think.

Phosphates pollution in sea water is indeed nonsense, as you stated in the past nutrification by phosphates only happens in standing water.

Here's the list of ingredients. There are three categories:

Less than 15%: Phosphonates
5 - 15%: Polycarboxylate, non-ionic Tenside (translation?)
Over 30% Phosphates
Other ingredients: Enzyme (Amylase, Protease), Scent
 
Virtually none of California's phosphate waste enters lakes and rivers, because that is our water source from the mountains. In most cases, the waste water enters a municipal treatment facility where microorganisms are killed, as much as possible, and phosphates filtered out. To my knowledge, no problems with too many phosphates or algae overgrowth in our oceans. The main seawater quality problem we have are streams that empty to the ocean that are NOT part of the water supply system. During the rainy season, these streams receive a lot of run-off water from storm drains, roof gutters, etc that goes into the ocean without treatment.

As a result, chemicals and microorganisms that would soak into the soil are instead carried out to the ocean (one reason our roof gutters drain to the street is to prevent erosion of our clay hillsides, which cannot absorb too much water or they "melt". Our city is building a system to capture this water, filter it, and use it for agricultural purposes (newer homes with TWO water meters, one for household and one for gardens; also the agricultural water can be used for farms, golf courses, etc.). Also, a lot of water seeps into the ground and the city operates three wells to utilize this naturally filtered water (for agricultural). The result is that the city has become a net EXPORTER of water during the November-May cool season, when there is little landscaping use of water; during these months, the city produces about 10,000,000 liters (2.5 million gallons) of EXCESS water DAILY, and exports it to cities without such a system (our city has a large seasonal creek that runs through it---other cities lack such a creek or stream).

However, there is a cost associated with this green activity: the fixed part of one's water bill (the part you pay even if you don't use a drop of water, to finance the operation of the system) is close to $40 per month. I have low water use landscaping plants, so my water use bill on top of the $40 is only $10-12, for a total monthly bill of about $50, but if I were away for a month on vacation in the winter with landscaping water turned off, I would still incur a monthly bill of $40. On the other hand, residents of nearby cities that import our water pay our city a fee, which must be reflected in higher water rates for them.

Northern Orange County, CA, has a huge seasonal river (Santa Ana River) that drains the large Southern California mountains (the local ski resorts), known as the San Bernardino Mountains (12,000 foot elevation). The river in central OC is full of honeycombed berms to PREVENT the water from reaching the ocean. The river is also protected by dykes, because there have been catastrophic floods in the past when there were no dykes. The idea is to capture the water, force it to percolate into the ground, and then it is pumped out by wells in central OC. Closer to the ocean, there are "injection wells" which force waste water INTO the ground, the reason is to prevent ocean salt water from migrating inland as water is pumped out by inland wells 10-20 miles (15-30 km) away from the ocean.
 
@mrboilwash

I know people in Germany (mainly in their 50s and older) who STILL boilwash, "weil Mutti machte es" (because Mother did so....remember, my peers in Germany still say "Mutti" and use die alte Rechtschreibung...I try to use die neue Rechtschreibung so I don't seem like a dinosaur; most of my German friends are too stubborn to change).

I recent made reservations for an October trip to Europe, using Lufthansa (only connecting through DUS, not actually stopping off in Germany) and once again the unfortunate Lufthansa flight attendants will have to answer my grammar questions. Basically, when I converse with them and know a word but not its gender or plural forms, I will ask the flight attendant for the proper usage. Is this is in their job description? NOPE, but I ask anyway. Helps to warm up my brain for using only German while in Germany. I also bring a German grammar review book along as reading on the plane (just fascinating....). I am generally less forward than most Germans (who will start a conversation with anyone about anything) but if they ask about the book then I will ask them grammar and usage questions (serves them right for opening their mouths).

Also don't forget: if you aren't certain about whether a verb has an irregular form in the second or third person singular, just use the infinitive and Sie. It disguises the fact that you aren't certain about your grammar, and your German listener thinks you are simply being overly polite and formal. I have been using this trick for 35 years, since I was in university, and no one in German has ever spotted my deception. They simply say "please use 'Du' with me, 'Sie' is too polite/formal". What they don't understand is that I am NOT trying to be polite, I just don't want to make one of those "ach, dumme, unfähige Amis" mistakes.

I learned the phrase "stupid, incompetent Americans" from "Hogan's Heroes". Yes, it was shown in German as "Ein Käfig voller Helden", but in order to appreciate fully the humor, look at an episode of the original English version. Most of the actors playing the role of Germans WERE from Germany, so there was nothing artificial about their accents. They may have exaggerated, but none of them (Werner Klemperer or John Banner, for example) spoke accentless English.



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@foraloysius

Hmmm, I don't remember Miep Kraak. Was she dressed the same as Josephine and Klementine? The Comet ads began in black and white in the very early 1960s. When I saw Klementine on German tv, I did not yet understand German, but I could see the similarity of the outfits/ad concept and that she was selling a German brand of detergent. What I failed to understand was that both Comet and Ariel belonged to P&G, so they were free to steal their own concept. Other than a few viewers such as myself, who had seen Comet ads for years, understood that this was a recycled ad concept.

Josephine the Plumber was played by actress Jane Withers. She was more famous as a child actress and did not win that many adult acting roles. Perhaps her most visible adult acting role was as Vashtai in "Giant", in which she portrayed Elizabeth Taylor and Rock Hudson's neighbor and best friend.

(grammer pearl: when there are two or more nouns--proper or otherwise--in sequence, only the last noun must take the possessive form. Some people make both nouns possessive if there are two nouns "Elizabeth Taylor's and Rock Hudson's best friend" but it would sound stilted if you made a string of three or more nouns all possessive. Example: "Trixi, Irene, Margriet, and Christina's mother was also their Queen" rather than "Trixi's, Irene's, Margriet's, and Christina's mother...")
 
A less vexing way of putting it might be, "The mother of Trixi, Irene, Margriet, and Christina was also their Queen."

Although it adds the words "The" and "of", it's actually fewer characters than making every daughter's name possessive.
 
I`m not that old, just in my 40`s and I still keep the tradition of boilwashing happily alive :-)
I wouldn`t worry too much about your German grammar. Nobody thinks of "dumme unfähige Amis", when a foreigner makes a mistake.
 
Sie thoughts

When I studied German in high school, I made a very conscious effort to be formal as much as possible in exercises or in class talk. It wasn't easy--the teacher really didn't care much about whether we addressed her formally, and the text book exercises always seemed to involve exchanges between high school students. Yet, I persisted. I'd heard too many stories about the American embarrassing him or herself by using "du" at the wrong time. (This was years ago, so things could have changed. But we heard stories in German class about the bus driver who used "du" and got fired for it.) I figured by forcing myself to be formal as much as possible, it would--with luck--be a default if I ever got to Germany. (I never have, but that's another story!)
 

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